Canada - How is your Wh/km?

[Doug_G]

Yes 160km on a full charge with the 60 is probably the worst case that I have seen with our vehicle so far. It is really a personal choice as you know your driving needs best and if you have a second vehicle then you'll always have a backup for the odd day if you were concerned.

That said our only regret is not getting the 85 battery. For us the 85 would eliminate the thinking about range we sometimes find ourselves having to do and as the car gets older I am expecting there will be some range loss which will make this more frequent.

Regardless of what you do choose, I'm sure you'll love the car.

This is why I always recommend that Canadians get the 85. It's enough that you don't worry about range in the dead of winter.

 

[hingisfan]

This is why I always recommend that Canadians get the 85. It's enough that you don't worry about range in the dead of winter.

I've been leaning that way, going with a base 85 instead of a 60 with SC (and maybe tech). Would also let me charge only to 80 or 85%, even in the worst of winter.

Off topic I know, but anyone else notice parcel shelf seems to be free now on the order site?

 

[NO C02]

We just returned from a 1,000 km trek from Vancouver to Kelowna, through the Coquihalla highway in southern British Columbia. There are two summits through the pass, the first is 1,210 metres, the second 1,717 metres. There are plenty of steep grades, so between using excessive energy climbing and regenerating on the way back down we averaged 187 Wh/km over the length of the return trip. We travelled at the posted speed limit, which varies between 100 to 110 km/h. We managed to complete the trip with a two hour charge in Merritt using the 70 amp Sun Country charger at Baillie house. We only have a single charger in our S85, yet still managed 48 kms of range per hour of charge. It was a great learning experience.

 

[dasRad]

This is why I always recommend that Canadians get the 85. It's enough that you don't worry about range in the dead of winter.

I would also recommend getting the 85 if you live anywhere that it goes below freezing on a seasonal basis. Today it's dry and 19C in Kelowna, BC and running around town doing errands is costing 165 Wh/km. That's the best I've seen to date. Five months ago when the temperature was below -5C the same driving cost 230-235 Wh/km on bare roads. Add in compact snow and consumption was up to 250-265 Wh/km.

It's just under 200 km from Kelowna to Kamloops. In today's conditions, the round trip wouldn't be a concern with the 85. Add in rain and I would likely want to charge for an hour or so in Kamloops. Last January we did the same trip (-15C and snow) to arrive in Kamloops with 95km of range remaining after leaving Kelowna with a range charge (~425km).

Without high speed charging (100kW and over), I doubt that BEVs can become mainstream. Widespread installation of superchargers will eliminate range anxiety and essentially kill off ICE vehicles for personal transportation. However, I don't currently see an alternative to the ICE for heavy goods vehicles (semi's).

 

[PoweredByRain]

We just returned from a 1,000 km trek from Vancouver to Kelowna, through the Coquihalla highway in southern British Columbia. There are two summits through the pass, the first is 1,210 metres, the second 1,717 metres. There are plenty of steep grades, so between using excessive energy climbing and regenerating on the way back down we averaged 187 Wh/km over the length of the return trip.

That's pretty impressive! I get the feeling that regenerative braking is actually pretty efficient. The power available to slow the car down hills is pretty damn amazing. Think how much brake lining wear all other cars on the road suffer from over the same route, and how much energy they never got back. This to me is one of the coolest things about electric cars.

 

[djp]

I had my best numbers yet today. I took a drive from Toronto to Waterloo and back, averaging 110-120km/h along the 401 with A/C on and no drafting. Surprisingly I beat Ideal range at 147 Wh/km. Total energy used was 34.15kWh to travel 232 km (Roadster of course!).

 

[green1]

Here is my personal worst case worry, and I'd love if someone could give me either some reality, or some reassurance. Start fully charged (even range charged) in Calgary, drive to about 10-20km past Lake Louise, Park outdoors over two nights, drive home. Do this in February with daytime temps at -20c, night time at -30c, don't hold up traffic on the highway.

Is this likely possible without stopping for charge? (None at destination, wouldn't normally stop en route)

 

[Doug_G]

Google maps says 182 km one-way, add 20 km... you're talking a 400 km round trip.

No way. You would need to charge. Pushing it in summer. Impossible in winter.

 

[green1]

And therein lies the problem with the "you only need x range" argument. It assumes that you can charge at your destination anywhere you go, great for people who travel to hotels and resorts, not as good for those of us who enjoy the great outdoors in all it's rustic glory.
I guess here's praying for that Lake Louise supercharger, because I can't justify a stop that would take any longer than that, and I do that trip every February. (Among other trips that are slightly less extreme for range, though even some of those would probably be tricky)

 

[dasRad]

And therein lies the problem with the "you only need x range" argument. It assumes that you can charge at your destination anywhere you go, great for people who travel to hotels and resorts, not as good for those of us who enjoy the great outdoors in all it's rustic glory.
I guess here's praying for that Lake Louise supercharger, because I can't justify a stop that would take any longer than that, and I do that trip every February. (Among other trips that are slightly less extreme for range, though even some of those would probably be tricky)

Just remember that the "you only need x range" argument is also incorporated in the design of ICE vehicles. Typical gas tanks are sized to get you 500 to 700 km of range. Now that is more than the range of a Model S, but that's not the reason that ICE drivers don't experience "range anxiety". If high speed chargers were installed at even 1/10 the density that gas stations are, there would be no range anxiety.

Hence my belief that Tesla's Supercharger network is more important than their cars when it comes to the wide spread adoption of electric vehicles.

 

[dasRad]

Yesterday I was back up to Kamloops (from Kelowna) for the day. Round trip was 380 km and the Model S reports a total consumption of 72.2 kWh and 190 Wh/km. That 190 Wh/km was the same for both the outgoing leg and the return leg. The roads were damp for about half the trip with a few kilometres of heavy rain. Kelowna and Kamloops are at pretty much the same elevation, but there are a couple of 150 m climbs and one 325m climb along the route (as per GreenRace ). A 150km recharge in Kamloops (thank you Holiday Inn (a 15 minute walk from McArthur Island Park sports fields)) eliminated any concerns about the return trip. As for trying to maximize mileage, why would you when you have the performance of a Model S?

The next out of town trip is to Revelstoke. Google shows it to be just over 200km each way. Surprisingly GreenRace shows that there is less climbing with 3 climbs of ~150m. The big problem is that there is one charger in Revelstoke (at the Best Western) and according to Plugshare it's a CS40 running at 30 amps (30 km/hr charge rate). So to have any buffer for the return trip I'll need that charger for my entire stopover and given it's location and likelihood of being blocked or in use, it's in no way a sure thing. The other option is to plan on a potential stop for a few hours on the return trip, and that is not something I can easily fit into the schedule. At the moment, it's looking like I'll be taking the gas vehicle.

Now, if there were a Supercharger in Revelstoke, I could treat my passengers to an ice cream while adding 200 km to the Model S.

P.S. The GreenRace link sometimes shows me a map, and sometimes just a nice photo - not sure what's up with it. When it works, it shows me an elevation profile of the route that I build.

 

[visagrunt]

After 2.5 months and just under 7,000 km, my average Wh/km is floating in the low 200's.


My driving is primarily my daily commute into downtown Vancouver from North Delta, so a mix of highway and city, with speed variations on the highway caused by traffic conditions, stoplights on Oak Street and climbing and descending the ridge.

I use Trip B to log performance weekly. The trend through April and way was steadily down, week on week to a low of 206 Wh/km in late May. My numbers have crept up to about 210-215 in the last couple of weeks. I credit wind resistance from having the pano open!

 

[green1]

Just remember that the "you only need x range" argument is also incorporated in the design of ICE vehicles. Typical gas tanks are sized to get you 500 to 700 km of range.

And that number has proven over decades to be a good balance, Tesla at about half of that range (300-400km of range) is an issue.

If high speed chargers were installed at even 1/10 the density that gas stations are, there would be no range anxiety.

Yes and no. In or near the city there are plenty of gas stations, but remote areas aren't as well served, and in many places there are only the exact minimum number of stations available. For a pure EV to meet 100% of my needs it MUST have a range equal to that of a gas vehicle AND have fast charging stations as frequent in remote areas (not 1/10th the density). That is a long way off. For now I'll have to deal with 90-95% of my usage. I'm ok with that, but only because my wife will be keeping an ICE vehicle and we can trade when needed.

Hence my belief that Tesla's Supercharger network is more important than their cars when it comes to the wide spread adoption of electric vehicles.

I agree. Charging is everything, but they do need to extend range as well. A large portion of my usage right now on my personal vehicle involves trips where I use up more than half a tank of fuel in one go. Most of these I'm sure the Tesla can just barely make on a full charge, but there are still quite a few that won't be possible without stopping to add range, something I don't have to do in my ICE vehicle.

I don't even think a lot more range is needed probably only a little, if 500km wasn't the ideal maximum that you don't really see, and instead the real life minimum range, that would do it. maybe 110kwh pack would be enough. That would take the Tesla from half the range of a decent ICE to the low end of the normal range spectrum, much more palatable for people who don't use it as a commuter car.

 

[pbrulott]

This is why I always recommend that Canadians get the 85. It's enough that you don't worry about range in the dead of winter.

60 kWh is good for most if not all rides. In fact, there is a fairly high chance that the Model E (or it replcement) will have an autonomy of around 320km which covers most people needs even in the winter. You have to stop somewhere, bigger is not always better.

 

[LazMan]

Had a lot of driving to do today. I'm impressed and surprised by the numbers.

I have a S85 with 34 000 K on it. Did a range charge which took me to 409k rated. Then drove all over Southern Ontario and back home for a total of 308km with 138km of rated range left. My average Wh/km was 158. I had the A/C on the whole time. Cost of electricity is $3.50 for the trip.

Last summer I had the regular rims and this summer I have the Aero rims. I have never had Wh/km numbers this low. It was mostly highway driving with not a lot of wind and the temperature was in the mid 20's. I think the Aero rims improve my Wh/km by about 10-15.

After 15 months and > 34 000km, I think Tesla might be onto something here.

 

[iKhalid]

Had a lot of driving to do today. I'm impressed and surprised by the numbers.

I have a S85 with 34 000 K on it. Did a range charge which took me to 409k rated. Then drove all over Southern Ontario and back home for a total of 308km with 138km of rated range left. My average Wh/km was 158. I had the A/C on the whole time. Cost of electricity is $3.50 for the trip.

Last summer I had the regular rims and this summer I have the Aero rims. I have never had Wh/km numbers this low. It was mostly highway driving with not a lot of wind and the temperature was in the mid 20's. I think the Aero rims improve my Wh/km by about 10-15.

After 15 months and > 34 000km, I think Tesla might be onto something here.

These are great numbers! What was your average speed? I went to Mont-Tremblant and came back yesterday (doing 100km/h on average) and I was at 174kWh. I was going up and down due to the nature of the road but I'm not sure how your route was.

 

[SlyWombat]

Ok, I definitely have a lead foot, or maybe it is just that it is still a new car, but I feel that I am driving the same as I did my previous vehicles, I drove only 88 km today, but using visibletesla I started with 90% charge and now have 62% charge left, so at that rate I would have a range of 88*3 or around 270km (which is what the right side of the energy graph shows, not the "rated range"), I am running around 245 Wh/km average at this point. Most of the drive is on the 407, usually around 120km with cruise. So I am glad I have a '85 and it is not winter.

 

[mnx]

Had a lot of driving to do today. I'm impressed and surprised by the numbers.

I have a S85 with 34 000 K on it. Did a range charge which took me to 409k rated. Then drove all over Southern Ontario and back home for a total of 308km with 138km of rated range left. My average Wh/km was 158. I had the A/C on the whole time. Cost of electricity is $3.50 for the trip.

I'm willing to bet your cost for the trip was at least double that. I calculate a little over 7$ when I ran the #'s.

 

[LazMan]

$0.075 * 48.9 kwh = $3.66 using off peak Toronto Hydro rates. I initially used $0.072 for the calculation. Also, you can add 10% for charging inefficiency if you insist. Then, I'll insist you deduct the free destination charging so the total is more like $2.00. Finally, we have solar panels that pay $0.549 per kwh which gives back to the grid more than we take for the car.

 

[djp]

$0.075 * 48.9 kwh = $3.66 using off peak Toronto Hydro rates.

Another good example of why Toronto Hydro should be quoting all-in rates on our bills! About half the rate is buried in distribution charges and other fees, which bring the total price per kWh closer to 15 cents off peak.