Canadian CHAdeMO charging

[mknox]

Demand charges are definitely an issue, which is why batteries will probably be installed at all Superchargers in the future.

With battery storage coming on-line, it's going to be interesting to see how utilities respond (full disclosure: I work for an electric utility). The reason for the demand charge is so that the utility can fund and build the necessary capacity for the customer's peak demand. Even if the peak only happens rarely, the system has to be built with conductors and transformers sized for it. Batteries can certainly mitigate peak charges, but are consumers still going to expect to have full capacity from the grid should the batteries fail or deplete? If so, utilities are simply going to have to find another rate mechanism to fund the larger infrastructure if the demand charge isn't there.

 

[glenhurst]

Musk has said that most of the business for Tesla Energy is expected to come from electric utilities, not from consumers. They've gotten to know the utilities pretty well the past few years as they've built out all these SCs. The plan seems to be to sell battery units to the utilities so THEY can have the extra peak capacity without having to build the whole system to handle that load.

 

[RAM_Eh]

Demand charges are definitely an issue, which is why batteries will probably be installed at all Superchargers in the future.

In addition to Montebello (open today) and Levis and Val d'Or (imminent) the Circuit Electrique just announced that Mont Joli CHAdeMO will go online this week. Mont Albert just earned at least one new Fall customer.

Demand charges can be reduced with capacitors too. They do not need replacement after 5 years like batteries do and are much cheaper.

 

[mknox]

Musk has said that most of the business for Tesla Energy is expected to come from electric utilities, not from consumers. They've gotten to know the utilities pretty well the past few years as they've built out all these SCs. The plan seems to be to sell battery units to the utilities so THEY can have the extra peak capacity without having to build the whole system to handle that load.

That is true. Several utilities in my neck of the woods are already running pilots.

Demand charges can be reduced with capacitors too. They do not need replacement after 5 years like batteries do and are much cheaper.

Capacitors will help correct poor power factor and so kind of indirectly help on demand charges, but only if you have poor power factor to begin with. Demand charges are generally based on peak kVA not kW.

 

[Jeeps17]

CHAdeMO charger now on-line in Lévis !

 

[RiverBrick]

Mont Joli CHAdeMO inauguration pushed back to October 7th. Apparently, some equipment was damaged during installation, so the site is off-line.

 

[agloutney]

Impressive how fast they are building up the network.

 

[RiverBrick]

Mont-Joli opened today. There are about 20 CHAdeMO in Quebec now with another 5-10 to come before the end of the year.

Between Nova Scotia, Quebec, and Manitoba, I think there are 16 CHAdeMO locations that are over 100 km from the closest Supercharger.

 

[Phillip L]

I have used ChaDeMo in Nova Scotia, Maine and Quebec and they really are a nice option for charging. The more the merrier! I certainly plan on using the La Pocatierre one next summer as the farthest east quick charger on the way to the Maritimes (assuming the Rivière du Loup SC is still not built )

 

[rapoport3a]

The only easily accessible Chademo near Toronto that I'm aware of is at Powerstream by Highway 400. (Nissan and some other dealers are reported not to allow Teslas to charge at their locations.) It's free. Last night my charge was only at 49 amps (volts 370 to 387), however, so the charger was operating at the power level of a home HPWC. There's a hardware problem in the unit but no indication of when it will be fixed --- could be a long time. Supposedly other Chademos are coming to Ontario but I have no information on when or where.

 

[SmartElectric]

Plugshare.com

 

[rapoport3a]

Not referring to current ones. Powerstream said in the summer that more are coming but there are no details.

I forgot about Markham (now $10/hr) --- has anyone here used it since the summer? According to SmartElectric, it wasn't operating at rated capacity then. Too many old Plugshare comments to read…

 

[RiverBrick]

I just used the brand new CHAdeMO station in Magog yesterday. I was a bit disappointed to only get 35kW (and I was at a relatively low SOC)...

The first eight or so Circuit Electrique CHAdeMO all supplied 125A, but unfortunately more and more of them have a 108A cap. I just received a survey from the CE, so I am going to mention this issue. It seems as it is to save around $2,500 per year in demand charges. As part of of the electrification plan the government could pay those fees, especially since the momey goes to H-Q.

 

[iKhalid]

The first eight or so Circuit Electrique CHAdeMO all supplied 125A, but unfortunately more and more of them have a 108A cap. I just received a survey from the CE, so I am going to mention this issue. It seems as it is to save around $2,500 per year in demand charges. As part of of the electrification plan the government could pay those fees, especially since the momey goes to H-Q.

Please take the survey seriously. I spent my time on every single question they had since I like their progress with the CHAdeMO stations and they deserve out attention.

I understand that it is a Quebec company but I hope they put more stations in Ontario, at least 401.

 

[mknox]

I forgot about Markham (now $10/hr) --- has anyone here used it since the summer?

I heard that Markham and/or PowerStream had done some market surveying to see if EV drivers would be willing to pay for use of this charger. Everyone said, "sure, yeah". But is seems the station has been going largely unused and now they're trying to figure out if everyone lied on the survey

 

[RiverBrick]

I heard that Markham and/or PowerStream had done some market surveying to see if EV drivers would be willing to pay for use of this charger. Everyone said, "sure, yeah". But is seems the station has been going largely unused and now they're trying to figure out if everyone lied on the survey

In Quebec the average pay CHAdeMO is used about 150 times per month. For pay level 2 it's around 8. There's a lot of variation in the latter category. Many mediocre locations that are used once per month and others that are visited every day.

 

[rapoport3a]

I'd be willing to pay for the Powerstream CHAdeMO but not for 18 kW. Not sure what not using it has to do with willingness to pay. Did they reduce the amperage deliberately? Regardless, 49 A are a good way to make sure it's used by fewer people still. Would be interesting to know how long it's been at that level.

 

[Doug_G]

I heard that Markham and/or PowerStream had done some market surveying to see if EV drivers would be willing to pay for use of this charger. Everyone said, "sure, yeah". But is seems the station has been going largely unused and now they're trying to figure out if everyone lied on the survey

Focus groups and other types of market research really have to be taken with a huge grain of salt. Most people aren't good at using their imagination to determine how they will react to a product, especially something very new and different. I've seen one case where almost everyone said they wouldn't buy a new product, yet when it was actually offered sales were through the roof. And of course I've seen the exact opposite.

Instead of this sort of mindless market research, I ask myself the question: would I realistically pay for this product? If I think the answer is yes then it's "build it and see if they come". Given the number of free chargers out there in the wild, and the availability of home charging, there's a pretty big incentive to avoid the $10/hour charge. Depending on the vehicle's charge rate that could be quite a large surcharge over the cost of electricity. I don't know about you, but I'd go to some effort to avoid charging there, unless I happened to really need it.

On the other hand, I happily paid the $2.50 flat rate at a charging station in Quebec a couple of weeks ago. I was quite willing to pay that price given that it was immediately across the street from my destination. On yet another hand, that was the very first time in five years where I actually paid anything for a charge away from home.

 

[mknox]

Not sure what not using it has to do with willingness to pay.

I think they were saying that it was used often while it was free, but as soon as the fee went on, usage dropped to almost nothing in spite of the fact that their market research said people would continue to use it and pay.

I've seen one case where almost everyone said they wouldn't buy a new product, yet when it was actually offered sales were through the roof.

Chrysler market-researched adding a driver's side sliding door to their mini-vans and everyone said it wasn't needed. Chrysler added it anyway and it was a runaway success. Ford had to scramble to modify their current design to allow for a longer driver's door and folding seatback to hold them over until they could get their model out with dual sliding doors to compete.

Given the number of free chargers out there in the wild, and the availability of home charging, there's a pretty big incentive to avoid the $10/hour charge.

That is precisely the assumption (by Markham / PowerStream) as to what's going on.

 

[rapoport3a]

I assumed you were talking about PowerStream on Cityview Blvd. but of course Markham charges and PowerStream on Cityview Blvd. doesn't. Although I'm not going out of my way to use either, if I need it, I'll pay for it if there's a cost. CHAdeMO station construction should be encouraged, which is difficult if its charging costs users a lot and there are other options.

A trip to Québec was also the only time I paid for charging away from home, and I had to. If CHAdeMO is working close to rated capacity, it's the best option after SuperChargers. I'm not going to avoid a fee for 40 to 50 kW just to charge at 7 --- or even 19, unless I have a lot of time.