That is an interesting idea. Although, Elon specifically stated that the users that create the most problems are the "experts." Those people would easily pass any safety test, then go back to their typical driving habits.
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Car will not allow reengagement of Autosteer until parked if user ignores repeated warnings
- Thread starter 4SUPER9
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I agree with Elon... however increased education can help (in small amounts)... and like I mentioned, I believe Tesla also wants to 'treat Adults like Adults'... to do that, Tesla needs a bit more "CYA" to cover themselves from "Experts" who do dumb things (like watching movies or defeating the hand check with a Bean Bag on the wheel ).
There will always need to be a balance of risk between Convenience and Annoyance, pivoting on Safety; Tesla needs to build a stronger 'CYA' umbrella to mitigate some of that risk (and maybe some better tech to support it).
"Flight" Pilots get trained on how to use AutoPilot; not just a blurb in a manual and a notification on the screen. Maybe "Drivers" need the same.
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Lex
Member
It might be the first thing I've ever taken exception to of Elon's doing, but I must do so with his use of "Expert" here.
If he is suggesting that Expert Tesla Autopilot drivers tug to dismiss warnings while not paying attention to the road, then I'd like to know if he's using expert with air quotes... I recoil in horror to imagine someone hearing a chime, and tugging the wheel all while not paying any real attention to the large heavy moving mass at your control, and the things that it may impact.
If he is suggesting that Expert Tesla Autopilot drivers tug to dismiss warnings while not paying attention to the road, then I'd like to know if he's using expert with air quotes... I recoil in horror to imagine someone hearing a chime, and tugging the wheel all while not paying any real attention to the large heavy moving mass at your control, and the things that it may impact.
I think the better word would have been "Experienced"; which infers Autopilot drivers become more trusting of the system over time.
"New" AP drivers instinctively grip the wheel and are likely paying more attention than they would normally as they obviously have less trust in the system.
Elon's choice of words and context, does seem to imply that "Expert" drivers are being less careful. While factual, this is due to human nature rather than "Experts" being intentionally flagrant. That said, I believe Elon's words, while ill-phrased for OUR consumption, were exceptionally calculated for the media.
a little birdy told me the first time you hear an audio tone with the display "Hold the Steering Wheel", you have 2 warnings left.
Little birdy also told me it's a complete nuisance and perhaps more dangerous because you are inclined to pull off the road to re-enable it.
Little birdy also told me it's a complete nuisance and perhaps more dangerous because you are inclined to pull off the road to re-enable it.
If I'm watching the road, as I am most of the time, I'm not staring at the instrument cluster and often miss the little "Hold Steering Wheel" annunciator. Then, as Elon describes, it beeps and I tug the wheel and all is good.
So this sounds like it's going to cause me to spend more time looking at the instrument cluster and less time looking at the road. How is that safer?
So this sounds like it's going to cause me to spend more time looking at the instrument cluster and less time looking at the road. How is that safer?
jeffro01
Active Member
All of your complaints would be avoided on this if you simply did what the instructions ask you to do which is keep your freaking hand(s) on the freaking wheel... I drive with at least one hand on and have yet to trigger the audible warning unless I was actively trying to do so...
Jeff
Jeff
Really? So do you never get a "Hold Steering Wheel" message? Because, in my experience, the car can't detect hands on the wheel unless you apply some torque. Simply resting your hands on the wheel isn't sufficient.
Pluto
is a Planet
I get the message, but it never gets close to the audible sound for me. It often lasts about a second and then goes away. I'm not sure if this is because it's supposed to do that or because I react by moving the steering wheel a bit more from noticing the message with peripheral vision.
Granted I do use force with my hands to turn the wheel regardless of the car steering as well, so that even if the car steered the opposite way on a turn, my car wouldn't get close to exiting the lane because it would immediately return control of steering to me. And I do take my hands off the wheel periodically when I feel it's safe to do so for a moment, and potentially do some quick, distracting task but otherwise my hands are always on the steering wheel. It probably makes a difference whether you're just resting your hands on the wheel as it steers or if you are redundantly steering the car with your hands.
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jeffro01
Active Member
Yep, really and correct, I never get a "Hold Steering Wheel" message unless I'm actively trying to... I drive one handed most of the time so apparently the way I'm hold the wheel is sufficient...
Jeff
mikeash
Active Member
It depends on how you hold the wheel, and also what sort of road you're on. If you're on a curvy road so the car is always steering a bit, then it has an easier time seeing torque from your hand. On a road that's perfectly straight, you have to make sure your hand is somewhat off to the side or it won't see anything.
I have no use for autosteer when my hands are one the wheel since when my hands are on the wheel I'm steering myself.
davidc18
Active Member
jeffro01
Active Member
Right... Surely you're going to be more reasonable than that??? I'm not firmly gripping the wheel with my hands at 10 and 2... I'm simply keeping two\three fingers on it so when the wheel nudges ever so slightly to check resistance (which is what i'm pretty sure the system is doing to check if you're there), my slight hold gives the system what it needs to know I'm there.
I don't see what is wrong with that or why you'd react in such a manor to that? This isn't a fully autonomous driving car as we've been over a billion times on TMC.
Jeff
Nothing wrong with that, but that's how I already drive without autopilot. Don't need auto steer if I'm steering myself. That doesn't mean I ever take my eyes of the road but if my fingers are on the wheel, I prefer to drive myself.
Hengist
Member
Jeff, for lots of us, that is just plain not true. I can hang my hand on the wheel and it still does not sense it.
jeffro01
Active Member
jeffro01
Active Member
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