Car won’t charge on HPWCs/UMC, says check Wall Power

[boaterva]

I agree with you. The main reason to have the electrician out is to check that box so you can bat the ball back into Tesla's court. Same thing with the utility. I'm convinced you have a faulty charger (with a slight possibility that there's some weird noise on your incoming line), and that Tesla is just being a jerk about it. The voltages reported, while on the high end, are entirely within the car's specs. The thing to do is force their hand as much as you can.

Totally agree. No way two HPWCs, and two UMCs (tried the 3's also) are bad, and the way it sticks 'broken' even when the voltage drops (when it's not that high in the first place) means it's in some weird state.

Waiting for electrician to get back to me, so, more news as I get it. Good thing this isn't the commuter car, or this would be more of an emergency. Thanks for the pointers, all!

 

[Reddy Kilowatt]

Ditto to all that...

Yeah, I have two HPWC on shared 100 Amp circuit with long cable just so we can charge either car on purpose. Both work on the 3 and not on the X when it's in 'this' state. UMC doesn't work either (as the thread tiltle says, lol). UMC on separate dryer circuit doesn't either. When the car charger is in this state, it doesn't take anything. Of course, when it went to Tysons, it wasn't 'sick'.

I would have to say it is the car, unless you have an incoming power issue that is house wide and your car is seeing it everywhere you plug in.

Where are you charging at this point? does everything work ok there?

FYI the house next block over behind me had his service lateral fail and took out a lot of stuff in his house as a result.

My brother in Law in Vienna suffered a major power surge on there entire block. melted the cable TV lines also. just about every Power strip and GFI plug were blown on the street. The TVSS power strip units really took a beating, some even sat there and smoldered. There was a P100D on the street. he never heard if he had an issue or not.

 

[boaterva]

I would have to say it is the car, unless you have an incoming power issue that is house wide and your car is seeing it everywhere you plug in.

Where are you charging at this point? does everything work ok there?

FYI the house next block over behind me had his service lateral fail and took out a lot of stuff in his house as a result.

My brother in Law in Vienna suffered a major power surge on there entire block. melted the cable TV lines also. just about every Power strip and GFI plug were blown on the street. The TVSS power strip units really took a beating, some even sat there and smoldered. There was a P100D on the street. he never heard if he had an issue or not.

SO, this car is mostly driven on weekends, and usually the car resets in a few days. This time it's been all this week. <checks app...> Down to 68%, still 'Check power source'. I can always drive to Haymarket Supercharger if I really need to, and may do so tomorrow just to see if kicking it with that and coming back makes a difference (yes, fully aware supercharging doesn't touch the onboard charger, but who knows what talks to what when you charge....). I also bet if I plug it in (to a WC) in this state, it won't charge.

Really leaning towards a spike is screwing the board up, now, but why only in the hottest months... coincidence? Combined with slight overvolt? Hm.....

------------------
For reference:

Summary of charging options in the house and all have been tried (see link below in the sig for old partial pix of the install).

2 HPWCs on 100 Amp circuit, set to 80 Amp max, cars are set to 40 (or whatever for the 3, I can't recall with all the versions).
14-50 hooked up to the subpanel of the 100 A circuit, installed as a backup in case both HPWCs fail

Separate Dryer circuit, used with UMC and adapter from EVSE Adapters,

Two UMCs, one from each car, so Gen 1 and 2.

None of these do anything different when the car is 'in this state'. Which makes me think the main charger board gets borked by something. Like a surge/spike?

I think I've tried turned the car off and on back and when, but don't want to try that until I get a response from the electrician, which I've not yet. That may do more than the standard reboot, which never does anything.

 

[MP3Mike]

I can always drive to Haymarket Supercharger if I really need to, and may do so tomorrow just to see if kicking it with that and coming back makes a difference (yes, fully aware supercharging doesn't touch the onboard charger, but who knows what talks to what when you charge....)

Actually I think it does unless Tesla re-engineered the process. When you Supercharge there is a set of contactors that bridge the battery pack to the charge port. That leaves the AC input on the charger exposed to the HV battery voltage. It is possible that could cause some state to change on the AC voltage/quality check process.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

SO, this car is mostly driven on weekends, and usually the car resets in a few days. This time it's been all this week. <checks app...> Down to 68%, still 'Check power source'. I can always drive to Haymarket Supercharger if I really need to, and may do so tomorrow just to see if kicking it with that and coming back makes a difference (yes, fully aware supercharging doesn't touch the onboard charger, but who knows what talks to what when you charge....). I also bet if I plug it in (to a WC) in this state, it won't charge.

Really leaning towards a spike is screwing the board up, now, but why only in the hottest months... coincidence? Combined with slight overvolt? Hm.....

------------------
For reference:

Summary of charging options in the house and all have been tried (see link below in the sig for old partial pix of the install).

2 HPWCs on 100 Amp circuit, set to 80 Amp max, cars are set to 40 (or whatever for the 3, I can't recall with all the versions).
14-50 hooked up to the subpanel of the 100 A circuit, installed as a backup in case both HPWCs fail

Separate Dryer circuit, used with UMC and adapter from EVSE Adapters,

Two UMCs, one from each car, so Gen 1 and 2.

None of these do anything different when the car is 'in this state'. Which makes me think the main charger board gets borked by something. Like a surge/spike?

I think I've tried turned the car off and on back and when, but don't want to try that until I get a response from the electrician, which I've not yet. That may do more than the standard reboot, which never does anything.

It sounds like you've tried a lot. I know it sounds crazy, but have you tried a regular 5-15 outlet as well?

 

[boaterva]

Actually I think it does unless Tesla re-engineered the process. When you Supercharge there is a set of contactors that bridge the battery pack to the charge port. That leaves the AC input on the charger exposed to the HV battery voltage. It is possible that could cause some state to change on the AC voltage/quality check process.

Excellent, def will try Haymarket, still closer than Leesburg.

David, not sure how a 5-15 would be any different from the completely separate dryer circuit? Seriously, at this point the car charge port stays Blue no matter what you do. Doesn't even try; no noise from a WC or UMC at all. I like @MP3Mike's idea to goose the contactors with a Supercharge session.

I can't even think how the charger resets at all, and it usually happens overnight (but we've seen other things 'reset' overnight, connected to firmware, so there must be some scheduled tasks somewhere...).

In the past, the usual sequence was: Weekends messed it up (from high voltage, I thought, perhaps from a spike now from all the 'things' in use (in the area, not in my house)). Then it reset from whatever process ran in the car by Wednesday. I remember this because my GF works from home Wednesday and I wanted to have the 3 here to call Tesla, and EVERY time the X fixed itself before Wednesday. (Until several weeks ago, when I then called and got nada, and then again this week.)

So, very interesting. And, no, no supercharging going on, not even this year.

 

[boaterva]

So, after some side-discussion with @Reddy Kilowatt I was going to try the Supercharging option and then perhaps try power at his place to see if that helped. I heard back from my electrician who said that even a whole house surge suppressor wasn't needed if I wasn't getting blown electronics and light bulbs. How about that, someone that won't sell you something you don't need?! (Just last week my HVAC guy was trying to sell me one to protect the 'delicate' furnace electronics......)

Anyway, I couldn't remember if I ever had turned it off and on (first rule of IT, right?) so I did that, and it worked. Hm... all of which leads back to, the charger board was hung, and something resets it eventually normally. As I said, it's not reporting bad power, it's reporting no power. I was checking above and I don't think i mentioned that when it's in this state, I get the nightly email from TeslaFI saying 'car is not plugged in'. It's really like there's no power at all. That's the Blue ring on the car, Red on the app (trying to charge, nothing there).

So, turning the car off with the menu power off option does reset it. Now we're into, wtf is going on in the first place. I'll probably have to live with it unless it can do it again next week (as it's scheduled for annual service in about two weeks). If Tesla can actually see it in the hung state, perhaps they will replace the board.

Oh yeah, after all that, now when it came back up, it has the '12V Battery needs service'. Good thing it's already scheduled to go it!

Thanks for all the suggestions and idea; I guess the moral IS 'did you turn it off and on'?

 

[Reddy Kilowatt]

So, after some side-discussion with @Reddy Kilowatt I was going to try the Supercharging option and then perhaps try power at his place to see if that helped. I heard back from my electrician who said that even a whole house surge suppressor wasn't needed if I wasn't getting blown electronics and light bulbs. How about that, someone that won't sell you something you don't need?! (Just last week my HVAC guy was trying to sell me one to protect the 'delicate' furnace electronics......)

Anyway, I couldn't remember if I ever had turned it off and on (first rule of IT, right?) so I did that, and it worked. Hm... all of which leads back to, the charger board was hung, and something resets it eventually normally. As I said, it's not reporting bad power, it's reporting no power. I was checking above and I don't think i mentioned that when it's in this state, I get the nightly email from TeslaFI saying 'car is not plugged in'. It's really like there's no power at all. That's the Blue ring on the car, Red on the app (trying to charge, nothing there).

So, turning the car off with the menu power off option does reset it. Now we're into, wtf is going on in the first place. I'll probably have to live with it unless it can do it again next week (as it's scheduled for annual service in about two weeks). If Tesla can actually see it in the hung state, perhaps they will replace the board.

Oh yeah, after all that, now when it came back up, it has the '12V Battery needs service'. Good thing it's already scheduled to go it!

Thanks for all the suggestions and idea; I guess the moral IS 'did you turn it off and on'?

FYI when I had an issue with a recent update Tesla had me reset multiple times on both the wheels and the power down and it cleared the issue with my car. with 28.3.1 my back up camera doesn't work, so I'm in the process of reset now.

Did you try to charge yet,is it charging? Second let us know if it clears your 12V battery trouble you are having. I bet it does. the car battery should last 4 years. I wouldn't want to get bricked over a 12 V battery. I have a couple machines I use, the batteries are 8 years old and going strong.

I was at a New Hampshire SC when a guy coasted in with a dead pack and a dead 12V battery. he was bricked because the 12v battery was dead and he didn't replace it, then ran the pack down to low. We had to push him up to the SC but it refused to charge since it couldn't talk to the car. Tesla was sending out a roll back when I left.

 

[boaterva]

Charging now... I’ve heard about 12V batteries lasting only a few years, you would think they could idle forever, topped off by the high voltage one, but stories abound on TMC.

I’ll reboot when charged back to 80% to see if it clears that issue but I’m betting not also!

There is something about these little 12V batteries. I have no accessories like dashcam or anything to drag it down and it’s on the HPWC and charged all the time except for these sort of cases (but the main pack has never gone below 60....).

 

[erik_k]

Elsewhere on TMC people say that 12v battery warning can sometimes be triggered by the HV pack too.
As a failure analysis test, why not dial the HPWC and car BOTH down to something like 10a and see if that changes anything?

 

[boaterva]

What does this mean? Dial down to 10 Amps? It charges now. A reboot/restart changes nothing. It’s just time for a new 12V battery.

If you have some concrete idea to reset the error message, say so. But the car was never down to less than 70% from 80%. What does charging have to do with the 12V battery which is charged from the DC/DC converter from the high voltage pack which was never low?

None of this discussion makes any sense to me.