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Carplay
- Thread starter Sir Guacamolaf
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- Model S
clostridium
Member
Fine - then tesla needs to get off their asses and provide meaningful phone integration in the cars. That's really all we want. Car Play is a known quantity which is why people ask for it but if tesla can provide the same functionality with their own solution that works too. I'm skeptical since they haven't shown they can do it yet.
ZBB
Emperor
Tesla needs to support both CarPlay and Android Auto. Pretty much all other brands support at least one, and most support both. This is a competitive feature -- and lack of it will impact sales at some point.
If hardware is needed, perhaps that could be incorporated into a USB device. Or they could work with Apple on a software only certification -- CarPlay isn't really all that complex of an API -- it's basically a screen mirror with touch input being passed back to the phone, Worst case, Tesla adds it for new production only.
For those of you saying Tesla shouldn't do it... nothing prevents Tesla from also enhancing or adding additional native apps. But I'm not holding my breath -- no new apps have been added since the Model S was released. Spotify support for the music app was added for Europe, but that's about it...
If hardware is needed, perhaps that could be incorporated into a USB device. Or they could work with Apple on a software only certification -- CarPlay isn't really all that complex of an API -- it's basically a screen mirror with touch input being passed back to the phone, Worst case, Tesla adds it for new production only.
For those of you saying Tesla shouldn't do it... nothing prevents Tesla from also enhancing or adding additional native apps. But I'm not holding my breath -- no new apps have been added since the Model S was released. Spotify support for the music app was added for Europe, but that's about it...
When the Model S went into production, Tesla was promising a 3rd party App Store - there was even an icon being displayed on the console's menu bar for the store - which was removed when the first cars were delivered.
Musk initially talked about adding a 3rd party programming interface with the new kernel update (which they may have delivered in the last few months) - and then later shifted to saying Tesla would instead provide a screen mirroring feature (but not Apple CarPlay or Android Auto). And since then, Musk or Tesla appears to have stopped mentioning the possibility of running 3rd party apps either on board or via screen mirroring.
It was understandable Tesla would deliver limited functionality when the first Model S cars were delivered - focusing on the higher priority software capabilities needed to get the cars delivered. While both the media player and navigation software worked (and looked great), they were missing obvious features (playlists, waypoints, route customization, real time traffic notifications, ...). And the smartphone integration was very basic (contacts, phone, BT audio).
And with so few Tesla cars on the road, it also made sense that 3rd parties would have little interest providing software for Tesla cars...
5 years later - we still have the same media player and navigation software. There have been updates to the media player that improved the user interface, but actually reduced usability and functionality. The navigation software has had minor improvements related to trip planning, but still is plagued with a number of problems due to the use of offline databases that are approaching two years out of date for the navigation maps. And while Tesla added calendar integration, we haven't seen any major improvements in smartphone integration - while other cars (even without CarPlay or AA) can do voice-to-text or text-to-voice for text messaging or e-mails.
Smartphone integration isn't just a matter of convenience or providing more capabilities - it is a matter of safety. Without better integration, drivers spend time looking away from the road to interact with their smartphones (on smaller displays) - which is not only a safety hazard but becoming illegal in an increasing number of areas.
Tesla is a large enough company now - and with the Model 3 will have a large enough number of vehicles on the road - to be able to invest in improvements in the media player, navigation software and smartphone integration - areas where, other than Tesla's large 15" and 17" console displays, Tesla is behind what the other manufacturers are or will soon be providing in their vehicles.
Tesla appears to be close on releasing a new navigation package - which might be an improvement over the S & X "FrankeNAV" system we've had for the last 5 years. Perhaps Tesla also has projects underway for improving smartphone integration & the media player - areas where what Tesla has been providing are obviously falling further behind the 'state of the art'...
Musk initially talked about adding a 3rd party programming interface with the new kernel update (which they may have delivered in the last few months) - and then later shifted to saying Tesla would instead provide a screen mirroring feature (but not Apple CarPlay or Android Auto). And since then, Musk or Tesla appears to have stopped mentioning the possibility of running 3rd party apps either on board or via screen mirroring.
It was understandable Tesla would deliver limited functionality when the first Model S cars were delivered - focusing on the higher priority software capabilities needed to get the cars delivered. While both the media player and navigation software worked (and looked great), they were missing obvious features (playlists, waypoints, route customization, real time traffic notifications, ...). And the smartphone integration was very basic (contacts, phone, BT audio).
And with so few Tesla cars on the road, it also made sense that 3rd parties would have little interest providing software for Tesla cars...
5 years later - we still have the same media player and navigation software. There have been updates to the media player that improved the user interface, but actually reduced usability and functionality. The navigation software has had minor improvements related to trip planning, but still is plagued with a number of problems due to the use of offline databases that are approaching two years out of date for the navigation maps. And while Tesla added calendar integration, we haven't seen any major improvements in smartphone integration - while other cars (even without CarPlay or AA) can do voice-to-text or text-to-voice for text messaging or e-mails.
Smartphone integration isn't just a matter of convenience or providing more capabilities - it is a matter of safety. Without better integration, drivers spend time looking away from the road to interact with their smartphones (on smaller displays) - which is not only a safety hazard but becoming illegal in an increasing number of areas.
Tesla is a large enough company now - and with the Model 3 will have a large enough number of vehicles on the road - to be able to invest in improvements in the media player, navigation software and smartphone integration - areas where, other than Tesla's large 15" and 17" console displays, Tesla is behind what the other manufacturers are or will soon be providing in their vehicles.
Tesla appears to be close on releasing a new navigation package - which might be an improvement over the S & X "FrankeNAV" system we've had for the last 5 years. Perhaps Tesla also has projects underway for improving smartphone integration & the media player - areas where what Tesla has been providing are obviously falling further behind the 'state of the art'...
I believe Model 3 production hell and AP2 difficulties have tied up a lot of reams that might otherwise be working on media software interface. Hopefully they get everything sorted and can get back to promised features; Model 3's popularity will pretty much guarantee potential buyers will eventually experience first hand the frustrations we are all familiar with before they actually have the car, so that may impact sales in the immediate future once the post-hype excitement starts to wear thin.
At this point, Tesla should have enough resources to allocate even a small number of developers on fixing the bugs, design flaws and missing features in the onboard software.
Does it really take a year to fix the XM radio problems - and put back basic features like a station slider and the station categories list?
Does it really take a year to fix the XM radio problems - and put back basic features like a station slider and the station categories list?
I don't think you're ever going to see Carplay or Android Auto (CP/AA) on the Tesla MCU because of Tesla's plans to eventually have a self-driving car.
It's not going to happen, and here's why.
1. Tesla is vertically integrated. They have worked hard to make sure you don't have to take anything out of your pocket to use your car, and you can control everything about the vehicle from the big touchscreen. It's a step backward to move the infotainment to your phone, away from the free Tesla LTE data connection, and make you get out your phone and plug it in every time you want to use the infotainment functions without killing your phone's battery. (Yes, some cars have wireless Carplay. It's a known battery hog.)
2. CP and AA could be a huge source of security problems. Security will be a huge concern in a Level 5 autonomous car. They won't really like you plugging internet-connected stuff into the car's bus and power supply. Also, if the car is operating in some kind of autonomous ride-share network, you might not want strangers plugging and unplugging stuff from your car.
3. People want CP and AA so they can use Waze and other nav apps, but to get to full autonomy, we can't be relying on a third-party app and hardware that can be unplugged or fail at any moment. Knowing this, the car is going to be using its own internal maps anyway for FSD, so why would Tesla invest resources to give human meat drivers the navigational options that you're actively trying to make obsolete?
4. Current AA/CP nav solutions don't deal with EV questions of charging, supercharger availability, range, etc. They also cannot monitor your car's efficiency and state of charge to know when to recommend charging. On a longer trip, where charging might enter the picture, you're right back to using the integrated nav system.
5. If you want AA/CP for the media apps, use bluetooth. The only thing AA/CP could give you is a wired connection (preferable, I agree) and the ability to search and pull up playlists/channels without referring to your phone. That's a small amount of functionality to be worth licensing AA/CP over it, and it is already possible to access voice command functions via bluetooth. Tesla is not doing that, but it could be in a future software update. We've already seen other bluetooth devices with "Hey Siri" and "OK Google" functionality, which would give you media search functions and voice-to-text. Audio can be sent wired or wireless and full voice assistant functions can be used without AA/CP.
6. If you're wanting AA/CP so you can get your phone's notifications on the car's main screen, that's possible without AA/CP. GM's been doing it for a few years now and Chrysler has, too. I don't know of a reason why Tesla couldn't do that via bluetooth and the existing hardware.
TL;DR - Android Auto and CarPlay work directly counter to what Tesla needs to accomplish to achieve a self-driving car. They need to build a secure, connected car that can do everything even when there's no one in the car or when there's a stranger in the car. Adding features that make it easier for humans to operate the vehicle is very low on the priority compared to making the vehicle operate itself. That's why AA/CP is never going to happen. Furthermore, almost everything you probably want AA/CP to do can and has been done via bluetooth for a long time and could be again, probably with a software update.
It's not going to happen, and here's why.
1. Tesla is vertically integrated. They have worked hard to make sure you don't have to take anything out of your pocket to use your car, and you can control everything about the vehicle from the big touchscreen. It's a step backward to move the infotainment to your phone, away from the free Tesla LTE data connection, and make you get out your phone and plug it in every time you want to use the infotainment functions without killing your phone's battery. (Yes, some cars have wireless Carplay. It's a known battery hog.)
2. CP and AA could be a huge source of security problems. Security will be a huge concern in a Level 5 autonomous car. They won't really like you plugging internet-connected stuff into the car's bus and power supply. Also, if the car is operating in some kind of autonomous ride-share network, you might not want strangers plugging and unplugging stuff from your car.
3. People want CP and AA so they can use Waze and other nav apps, but to get to full autonomy, we can't be relying on a third-party app and hardware that can be unplugged or fail at any moment. Knowing this, the car is going to be using its own internal maps anyway for FSD, so why would Tesla invest resources to give human meat drivers the navigational options that you're actively trying to make obsolete?
4. Current AA/CP nav solutions don't deal with EV questions of charging, supercharger availability, range, etc. They also cannot monitor your car's efficiency and state of charge to know when to recommend charging. On a longer trip, where charging might enter the picture, you're right back to using the integrated nav system.
5. If you want AA/CP for the media apps, use bluetooth. The only thing AA/CP could give you is a wired connection (preferable, I agree) and the ability to search and pull up playlists/channels without referring to your phone. That's a small amount of functionality to be worth licensing AA/CP over it, and it is already possible to access voice command functions via bluetooth. Tesla is not doing that, but it could be in a future software update. We've already seen other bluetooth devices with "Hey Siri" and "OK Google" functionality, which would give you media search functions and voice-to-text. Audio can be sent wired or wireless and full voice assistant functions can be used without AA/CP.
6. If you're wanting AA/CP so you can get your phone's notifications on the car's main screen, that's possible without AA/CP. GM's been doing it for a few years now and Chrysler has, too. I don't know of a reason why Tesla couldn't do that via bluetooth and the existing hardware.
TL;DR - Android Auto and CarPlay work directly counter to what Tesla needs to accomplish to achieve a self-driving car. They need to build a secure, connected car that can do everything even when there's no one in the car or when there's a stranger in the car. Adding features that make it easier for humans to operate the vehicle is very low on the priority compared to making the vehicle operate itself. That's why AA/CP is never going to happen. Furthermore, almost everything you probably want AA/CP to do can and has been done via bluetooth for a long time and could be again, probably with a software update.
Does Waze have the capability to track required charge for the trip and route through Superchargers?
BS like this is why I seriously doubt my next car is a Tesla. Reminds me of Mac advocates explaining why a window maximize button isn't needed or a right mouse button is a bad idea.
I suggest a compromise! Tesla should add these community requested features UNTIL L5 comes to our cars.
BS like this is why I seriously doubt my next car is a Tesla. Reminds me of Mac advocates explaining why a window maximize button isn't needed or a right mouse button is a bad idea.
We should get a good 10 years out of them.
Actually this isn't true anymore! 9TO5Mac
"During WWDC earlier this month, Apple made an important announcement coming soon to its HomeKit platform with iOS 11 that didn’t get enough attention. It’s introducing software authentication support, which isn’t only a big deal for getting older, already shipping accessories on the platform, but also notable in general for Apple which for the most part requires a hardware authentication chip in accessories that pass through its official Made-for-iPhone (and iPad, and Apple Watch) licensing program."
Tesla could easily implement it
Actually this isn't true anymore! 9TO5Mac
"During WWDC earlier this month, Apple made an important announcement coming soon to its HomeKit platform with iOS 11 that didn’t get enough attention. It’s introducing software authentication support, which isn’t only a big deal for getting older, already shipping accessories on the platform, but also notable in general for Apple which for the most part requires a hardware authentication chip in accessories that pass through its official Made-for-iPhone (and iPad, and Apple Watch) licensing program."
Tesla could easily implement it
Thanks. This is good news. Maybe this is what they've been waiting for.
just curious - has anyone seen any CP/AA implementation that only uses a portion of the display and leaves the rest of the display to the car system?
I've not seen an implementation where CP/AA shares the screen - but on the other hand I haven't searched too hard either
I've not seen an implementation where CP/AA shares the screen - but on the other hand I haven't searched too hard either
The continued refusal to offer CarPlay/Android Auto is essentially a poke in the eye to Tesla's customers. There is no valid technical reason why Tesla can not provide access. It shows that in some cases the customer does NOT come first before Tesla's own interests. Containerization can provide all the isolation needed to eliminate risk to internal systems.
Originally Tesla intended to provide a 3rd party API (programming interface) and support an App Store for 3rd party apps to run on the Tesla processor.
If Tesla was using a commercial-grade operating system designed to isolate applications from critical functions, that might have worked, though even with commercial operating systems, there's still a risk of security holes. And Tesla's operating system is probably far from commercial grade (at least as far as supporting 3rd party applications running alongside Tesla's apps). So while the 3rd party App Store sounded like a great idea - even if Tesla had been able to convince developers to implement software for Tesla's relatively small market, the risk of running 3rd party apps really rules that out.
That leads us to CarPlay, Android Auto or another screen mirroring solution. While there is some security risk with those, the risk is considerably smaller - since the 3rd party apps run on the smartphone - and not on Tesla's processor, which instead provides a limited interface for accessing the console display and screen interface. It seems unlikely that any car manufacturer would allow CarPlay or Android Auto in their cars if they had any concerns about security issues. And even if Tesla doesn't use the Apple or Android solutions, there are 3rd party alternatives to provide screen mirroring - which is what Musk said Tesla would do (several years ago).
I agree that using a smartphone nav app isn't a good solution. Tesla's nav software will understand the car and Tesla's charging network - and be able to do routings including stops at chargers. This information will likely never be available to smartphone apps - which are designed to run standalone - not tailoring the routing to a car and the need to recharge/refuel.
Tesla is evidently implementing a new navigation system using "open source" software. We won't know until they release it if the new software will be an actual improvement over the FrankeNAV solution that was cobbled together from spare parts over 5 years ago. But, because EAP and FSD will rely on very good routing, it's likely Tesla will (finally) invest whatever it takes to provide a high qualify navigation app - taking full advantage of real-time traffic data and producing more reasonable routes.
But that still leaves the media player and smartphone integration. While the current software looks great on the 17" console display - the functionality was behind competition 5 years ago - and has only fallen further behind since the Model S went into production. And today, the 8.0 release last year was actually a step backward - with several major bugs introduced - which still haven't been fixed (such as USB media or XM radio).
Tesla will have competition in the long range EV market - and won't be able to compete with the poor media player and lack of full smartphone integration. Features such as text-to-voice and voice-to-text for messages & e-mails are pretty common in other vehicles (at lower price points) today - and Tesla needs to come up with a solution - or risk losing customers (possibly in the next 12 months), because Tesla is getting so far behind in this area.
If Tesla was using a commercial-grade operating system designed to isolate applications from critical functions, that might have worked, though even with commercial operating systems, there's still a risk of security holes. And Tesla's operating system is probably far from commercial grade (at least as far as supporting 3rd party applications running alongside Tesla's apps). So while the 3rd party App Store sounded like a great idea - even if Tesla had been able to convince developers to implement software for Tesla's relatively small market, the risk of running 3rd party apps really rules that out.
That leads us to CarPlay, Android Auto or another screen mirroring solution. While there is some security risk with those, the risk is considerably smaller - since the 3rd party apps run on the smartphone - and not on Tesla's processor, which instead provides a limited interface for accessing the console display and screen interface. It seems unlikely that any car manufacturer would allow CarPlay or Android Auto in their cars if they had any concerns about security issues. And even if Tesla doesn't use the Apple or Android solutions, there are 3rd party alternatives to provide screen mirroring - which is what Musk said Tesla would do (several years ago).
I agree that using a smartphone nav app isn't a good solution. Tesla's nav software will understand the car and Tesla's charging network - and be able to do routings including stops at chargers. This information will likely never be available to smartphone apps - which are designed to run standalone - not tailoring the routing to a car and the need to recharge/refuel.
Tesla is evidently implementing a new navigation system using "open source" software. We won't know until they release it if the new software will be an actual improvement over the FrankeNAV solution that was cobbled together from spare parts over 5 years ago. But, because EAP and FSD will rely on very good routing, it's likely Tesla will (finally) invest whatever it takes to provide a high qualify navigation app - taking full advantage of real-time traffic data and producing more reasonable routes.
But that still leaves the media player and smartphone integration. While the current software looks great on the 17" console display - the functionality was behind competition 5 years ago - and has only fallen further behind since the Model S went into production. And today, the 8.0 release last year was actually a step backward - with several major bugs introduced - which still haven't been fixed (such as USB media or XM radio).
Tesla will have competition in the long range EV market - and won't be able to compete with the poor media player and lack of full smartphone integration. Features such as text-to-voice and voice-to-text for messages & e-mails are pretty common in other vehicles (at lower price points) today - and Tesla needs to come up with a solution - or risk losing customers (possibly in the next 12 months), because Tesla is getting so far behind in this area.
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