The new 330e, which is out next month, has a 0-62 time of 6 seconds, so getting close to SR+ acceleration. Of more interest they are doing a touring version and four wheel drive too, so there’s a bit more versatility than Tesla. Also there’s rumours that the new 4 series will also have a hybrid version. As I like convertibles, a 430e convertible would be quite tempting! On a more general point it does raise the question as to why there’s so little variety in the type of electric car available at the moment.
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Cat amongst the pidgeons - What if...
- Thread starter MrBadger
- Start date
RjbT3
Member
But your hypothetical car is a hybrid...? I think you need a better hypothetical alternative to put the cat amongst the pigeons. Who in their right mind would cancel a Tesla for a hybrid? Not anyone on this forum for sure. If it were a compatible pure EV from BMW I would seriously consider it. But then that's not going to happen for a few years (according to my local BMW dealership).
The point of the question, was to see if people were going Tesla for the performance, or for full BEV.
It sounds like most that have answered the question (plenty who have not) are buying into BEV, which, from M3P- model being so popular (people upgrading from the physically identical AWD bar acceleration/track option and price), some chatter on here (I read most of the sections) and the odd interlude, surprises me.
So the next question would have been, how much quicker would an ICE or hybrid have to be to go back that route. But now I have said what the point of the original question was, there is answer bias, so now its just for a bit of fun rather than to satisfy a genuine curiosity.
It sounds like most that have answered the question (plenty who have not) are buying into BEV, which, from M3P- model being so popular (people upgrading from the physically identical AWD bar acceleration/track option and price), some chatter on here (I read most of the sections) and the odd interlude, surprises me.
So the next question would have been, how much quicker would an ICE or hybrid have to be to go back that route. But now I have said what the point of the original question was, there is answer bias, so now its just for a bit of fun rather than to satisfy a genuine curiosity.
interbear
Active Member
On your first point, I went with the M3 P- only because the LR AWD disappeared from the configurator. I neither want nor need the extra performance of the P- and would rather have the additional range of the LR AWD. But that wasn’t an option when my mouse was impatiently hovering over the “order now” button. So, P- it is then.
On your subsequent question - as performance is pretty irrelevant to me, an ICE or hybrid with a 0-60 pace of 1 second would not entice me to go that route. Firstly, I’d likely be dead within 3 days
Secondly, I’ve decided to go full EV primarily for environmental reasons, and there is no going back to anything that pumps out toxic emissions.
Thanks for the post. Totally agree in your situation.
Regarding first point though, obviously not made clear, but when M3P- became an option, quite a few people seemed to upgrade from an already ordered LR/AWD to the cut down performance version. Obviously, as in your situation, the option of LR/AWD has been removed - biggest consequence is that people wanting the tow hitch, are stuck with the SR and people have been forced to pay a higher price for a car that they were not actually considering - happen to us, were not really bothered about the AWD or fake (apologies, vegan) leather seats but if we wanted LR, thats what we had to get.
Regarding first point though, obviously not made clear, but when M3P- became an option, quite a few people seemed to upgrade from an already ordered LR/AWD to the cut down performance version. Obviously, as in your situation, the option of LR/AWD has been removed - biggest consequence is that people wanting the tow hitch, are stuck with the SR and people have been forced to pay a higher price for a car that they were not actually considering - happen to us, were not really bothered about the AWD or fake (apologies, vegan) leather seats but if we wanted LR, thats what we had to get.
RFernatt
Solar/EV Owner/Enthusiast
I can't fuel a hybrid in my garage with all the excess electricity I produce with solar and a PHEV wouldn't use much electricity. The LR AWD Model 3 has plenty enough performance for me so Tesla all the way.
And, I don't live next to a BMW service center, so no.
And, I don't live next to a BMW service center, so no.
interbear
Active Member
I think there are plenty who ordered the LR AWD originally because it was mid price point in the range @ £47k ish with enough performance to satisfy the majority. At that point the premium to get the fully loaded Performance version was, if I recall correctly, about £10k, I think it was approx @ £57k ish. Too much for many. So when the P- then appeared @ £48k ish, it was only just over £1k more than the LR AWD that they had originally ordered, a far more acceptable difference. I think that’s why they will have changed from the LR AWD to P-. That and a concern that the residual value of the LR AWD a few years down the line may suffer vs the P- version or, possibly a re-introduced lower price LR AWD version at some point in future.
The most investment on EV's will be by the VW group 91 billion $ , more then any other manufacturer. As Chris Harris had mentioned the long term aim for Tesla is producing batteries- the gigaplants. Once you have captured this this you can sell the batteries back to the germans and dropout of the Car production race
Exclusive: VW, China spearhead $300 billion global drive to electrify cars - Reuters
Exclusive: VW, China spearhead $300 billion global drive to electrify cars - Reuters
You couldn’t make one quick enough to entice me away from BEV.
MorayEVGuy
Member
The recent event held by BMW shows that their outward face is showing willingness to develop electrified vehicles (this is mainly PHEV's not BEV's), their own executives are saying there is "No demand for electric cars" and that a "diesel car will last 30 year and a BEV only 20 years".
How are these dinosaurs still working in the auto industry? If BMW is serious about change they need to be weeding these people out of the company and taking on new blood to drive the company forward.
How are these dinosaurs still working in the auto industry? If BMW is serious about change they need to be weeding these people out of the company and taking on new blood to drive the company forward.
RjbT3
Member
I think you speak for everyone on this forum. No Tesla buyer is buying for performance only.
My thoughts are as follows... BMW are 5 years away from a full EV range or even a full EV 3, x3, 5 x5 series replacement. They have messed-up.
VW will go bankrupt as they invest too much too late.
China will take over as the No. 1 global car producer.
Most established car manufacturers as we know them will disappear as more and more people have less reason to own a car as the model completely changes.
Self driving technology and battery production will change everything and it will be the fastest uptake of a new technology anyone will have ever witnessed. Even faster than the evolution of from mainframe computer in the 60s to the desktop, internet and smartphones of today. That took 5+ decades. This will happen in 2. Hardly anyone will need or want to own a car 20 years from now.
Hopefully Tesla will survive the revolution they have tried to make their own.
For me, BEV in this context is a "must have" where (and noting Tesla performance is already through the roof, although this isn't a big thing for me) performance differences are just "nice to have". So the debate only really gathers much life once both alternatives are BEV.
Once they are, and assuming they're offering similar AP tech, then performance and German build make a significant difference but by then I'm probably back to being a buyer of older cars again.
Once they are, and assuming they're offering similar AP tech, then performance and German build make a significant difference but by then I'm probably back to being a buyer of older cars again.
The build quality of Tesla is often slated, and coming from Lexus I was worried about it. In truth, for me anyway, it’s perfectly ok, different, but ok. And when the rest of the car is so good, ‘ok’ is just fine.
Assuming performance and AP are similar, for me the next criteria are Tesla screen v a button fest and OTA updates. At the moment nothing comes close here either.
If there was one thing over and above anything else I would change it would be Tesla communication with owners. They mishandle so many situations that a decent marketing/PR dept would eat for breakfast.
I think that's because it is just about the only thing you can criticise about the product! In pretty much every other respect Tesla is well ahead of the game and "build quality" is IMHO massively over-hyped by the media and owners alike. There is plenty of brain washing going on. For example I've been a Porsche owner for many years and they bang on about how great their build quality and engineering is to the point where many owners are convinced their cars have peerless build quality. In reality I've found them to be pretty average and my Tesla has proven more reliable so far.
My old modded BMW 335i had dyno proven near 400bhp at the wheels - probably more as we couldn't stop it wheel spinning on the rollers!! It will pull harder at 60mph+ at full throttle than a Model 3 'P' and I suspect at 100mph+ rolling start even pull away from a P100D L S.
I swapped the 335i for a 24kWh Leaf, if you took away the Tesla from our drive tomorrow and gave me a choice of going to work in my old 335i or Leaf I would pick the Leaf every time.
The only way I would take up driving an combustion car again would be if someone gave me one for free, in which case I still wouldn't drive it, I would simply sell it and use the cash for an EV.
For me, once you get to the performance level of a Model 3P then it doesn't really matter that much if one car is quicker than another.
Let's say for argument's sake there was a BMW hybrid with a 0-60 time of 2.3 seconds. I would still not choose it over a Model 3P simply because it was a hybrid, however impressive the performance. Now if the BMW was a full EV and could match the Tesla on the rest of its tech and range at the same price level then sure I would seriously consider it (as I wouldn't be dependent on the SuC network for this particular car).
In reality I just don't see any of this happening, especially not at BMW with their current attitude toward EVs.
RjbT3
Member
Yeah, BMW are way off the mark! They should go all out to buy or partner with Tesla to solve their fast looming dire situation.
