CCS Adapter for North America

[Mockingbird]

I absolutely understand and support why Tesla would REALLY not like to include other types of charging stations in their navigation map. If Tesla is showing it in their included map, where they are directing their customers to them, that is an endorsement of them. And with the reliability of the other charging networks being so pathetic, it is very understandable of why Tesla would not want to slime themselves by directing people to non-working, broken, out of order stations, and the horrible backlash that would go with that. ("Tesla sent me to a non-working charger and got me stranded--they suck!") Tesla would only want to endorse things they know to be pretty good and reliable. I just came across this in another thread:

chademo/ccs charging issues

I am having an issue with both chademo and ccs (Lectron) adapters with Models S and X. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. Taking Chargepoint network for example - both adapters will work on one station, but not on another identical looking one a hundred miles away. Or one adapter will...

teslamotorsclub.com

Quoted:
"I've called in to complain to CP about broken chargers several times. They used to just say "contact the site owner". Now, they remind me that the site owner is responsible but that they'll put in a ticket. Their big improvement is that 3 times now, they've actually called me back up to tell me that the site is back up. Then I got a "how are we doing" survey. Did I mention that it was 6 months later that they called me back?
I love and hate CP. Many times, they are the only option - for that I'm grateful. Their quality is so poor though that the thought of having to use them is very stressful."

Tesla added EVgo charging stations to its on-board navigation system.

 

[Rocky_H]

Tesla added EVgo charging stations to its on-board navigation system.

See how careful and selective they are being? EVGo is someone they are working with, selling them those CHAdeMO adapters to install on their stations.

 

[Mockingbird]

See how careful and selective they are being? EVGo is someone they are working with, selling them those CHAdeMO adapters to install on their stations.

You are moving the goalpost.

Electrify America is far more reliable.

Now, only once in a while would one run into an Electrify America charging station with a down charger/dispenser.

 

[stopcrazypp]

You are moving the goalpost.

Electrify America is far more reliable.

Now, only once in a while would one run into an Electrify America charging station with a down charger/dispenser.

Was/is it really, especially for the CHAdeMO (the only other standard that Tesla officially supports right now in NA)? Even the CCS I have seen reported horror stories of the EA network and they have much more of those (with CHAdeMO there might only be one and if Tesla nav directed to that, it might be broken). I believe EVGo instead has a more even distribution of CHAdeMO vs CCS.

 

[Mockingbird]

Was/is it really, especially for the CHAdeMO (the only other standard that Tesla officially supports right now in NA)?

Electrify America doesn't care about CHAdeMO.

There are some charging stations where Electrify America acknowledged that CHAdeMO is down and didn't fix it for >6 months.

Not surprisingly, CCS works fine at those same charging stations.

Even the CCS I have seen reported horror stories of the EA network and they have much more of those

A lot of times, it's a compatibility issue rather than an issue with the charger.

For example, the Chevrolet Bolt and the BMW i3 have issues with the liquid-cooled cables that Electrify America uses.

 

[acarney]

Mine departed Anchorage a couple hours ago and says I should have it tomorrow (it’s going to Seattle). UPS here via local Korean EMS.

I allowed my buddy to film an unboxing of it first

 

[bradtem]

I absolutely understand and support why Tesla would REALLY not like to include other types of charging stations in their navigation map. If Tesla is showing it in their included map, where they are directing their customers to them, that is an endorsement of them. And with the reliability of the other charging networks being so pathetic, it is very understandable of why Tesla would not want to slime themselves by directing people to non-working, broken, out of order stations, and the horrible backlash that would go with that. ("Tesla sent me to a non-working charger and got me stranded--they suck!") Tesla would only want to endorse things they know to be pretty good and reliable. I just came across this in another thread:

Ah. The chargers are already in the map. Tesla gets its map data from Google and Google has put in as many chargers as it can find.

I was just saying that if you navigate to one it should precondition, or offer to precondition. It also should not give you warnings that you are getting out of range of charging, that's just parochial.

And it should even plot routes with these chargers, if I touch an option saying "use CCS chargers" if I have configured myself as having that adapter. But it won't do that, so we will stick with ABRP and routing to them by hand.
But mainly, the car should work to serve the driver, and nobody else, including Tesla. If I want to charge there, it should do all it can to help me.

 

[kayak1]

You are moving the goalpost.

Electrify America is far more reliable.

Now, only once in a while would one run into an Electrify America charging station with a down charger/dispenser.

More reliable? WIth zero notice:

Electrify America Shuts Down 500-Mile Charging Corridor Over Labor Day

Rather than shutting down a few charging points or a few locations, Electrify America did a mass shutdown over Labor Day weekend leaving people stranded.

insideevs.com

EVGo has been good for my leaf when needed.

 

[kayak1]

Ah. The chargers are already in the map. Tesla gets its map data from Google and Google has put in as many chargers as it can find.

I was just saying that if you navigate to one it should precondition, or offer to precondition. It also should not give you warnings that you are getting out of range of charging, that's just parochial.

And it should even plot routes with these chargers, if I touch an option saying "use CCS chargers" if I have configured myself as having that adapter. But it won't do that, so we will stick with ABRP and routing to them by hand.
But mainly, the car should work to serve the driver, and nobody else, including Tesla. If I want to charge there, it should do all it can to help me.

A better fix would be just to give us an option, will arrive at a DC fast charger in less than X minutes, start battery precondition. Or an option for a waypoint to precondition for the waypoint. I don't see the downside of letting us pick.

Our CCS1 adapter will arrive Friday, we will have to test it out this weekend.

 

[cwerdna]

I believe EVGo instead has a more even distribution of CHAdeMO vs CCS.

ALL non-Tesla and non-EA DC FC providers in the US have a more even distribution of CHAdeMO VS. CCS.

For example, the Chevrolet Bolt and the BMW i3 have issues with the liquid-cooled cables that Electrify America uses.

The issue is the need to EA makes a video on how to prop-up the cable since the cables and handles are so heavy. If you don't, the top portion for communications may not be connected and thus there will be a failure to start.

As I think I've posted before, every single time I've gone to an EA CCS charger w/my former Bolt (and once w/my '22 Niro EV) to either pay for juice (rarely) or get their free juice (a lot more), assuming all the stalls (or non-broken stalls) weren't taken, I was able to charge. Sure, there might be a down charger or handles w/broken tangs (not sure who is breaking them, how and why), but if I switch to another it works.

On EA, I've personally used their DC FCs from most to least: BTC Power, Signet, ABB (not much). I haven't ever physically seen their Efacec units.

Of course, I almost always check Plugshare first. Sometimes, I'm just in the area and on the lookout for complimentary session on their display. Now it doesn't matter much any more as I'm going to the office almost every weekday where I have free L2 juice.

Re: EA horror stories, besides the shutdown mentioned earlier, apparently, this guy in NY has had issues: DCFC reliability – An open Letter to Electrify America. It seems like EA eventually ripped out all the Efacec chargers and replaced them w/another vendor over there.

ARob's Spring 2022 Cross Country Bolt Trip Thread did an over 7K mile road trip in his Bolt w/61 EA sessions. A Chevrolet Bolt EV Set a Cannonball Run Record and No One Noticed | Torque News was almost all on EA. Some of the "horror stories" are from people who didn't plan, didn't check Plugshare, didn't know to support the handle and cable and used credit card readers (which can be broken).

 

[stopcrazypp]

Electrify America doesn't care about CHAdeMO.

There are some charging stations where Electrify America acknowledged that CHAdeMO is down and didn't fix it for >6 months.

Not surprisingly, CCS works fine at those same charging stations.

Well to add it to the interface right now (as per the comment chain), the only one they would care about would be CHAdeMO. They don't officially support CCS yet, so they wouldn't care about that at this moment.

A lot of times, it's a compatibility issue rather than an issue with the charger.

For example, the Chevrolet Bolt and the BMW i3 have issues with the liquid-cooled cables that Electrify America uses.

What's to say the similar issues won't impact Teslas?

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Electrify America doesn't care about CHAdeMO.

There are some charging stations where Electrify America acknowledged that CHAdeMO is down and didn't fix it for >6 months.

Not surprisingly, CCS works fine at those same charging stations.


A lot of times, it's a compatibility issue rather than an issue with the charger.

For example, the Chevrolet Bolt and the BMW i3 have issues with the liquid-cooled cables that Electrify America uses.

1 data point:
Hyundai Kona
1 attempt
Hanging charger.
Worked with a free session after reboot of the charger.
At the same time a guy with a VW ID.4 was also having problems getting the charging going.
Negative: it delayed us and we had to have lunch at a nearby chain instead of the restaurant we were going to eat at.
Positive: responsive customer service. Also, free charging! So we were able to have lunch and charge to 96% without it costing a fortune.

 

[Mockingbird]

What's to say the similar issues won't impact Teslas?

Electrify America has a new test center in Reston, VA called the "Center of Excellence" where Electrify America's partners (Ford, Mercedes, KIA, Hyundai, etc.) would bring their pre-production vehicles for testing to make sure that they aren't plagued by incompatibility issues, unlike previous EVs.

You would think that Tesla would be sending its vehicles over for testing.

 

[Mockingbird]

More reliable? WIth zero notice:

Electrify America Shuts Down 500-Mile Charging Corridor Over Labor Day

Rather than shutting down a few charging points or a few locations, Electrify America did a mass shutdown over Labor Day weekend leaving people stranded.

insideevs.com

EVGo has been good for my leaf when needed.

That was a planned maintenance and it was announced ahead of time.

All efacec chargers/dispensers were removed and replaced because of poor reliability.

 

[Mockingbird]

The issue is the need to EA makes a video on how to prop-up the cable since the cables and handles are so heavy. If you don't, the top portion for communications may not be connected and thus there will be a failure to start.

As I think I've posted before, every single time I've gone to an EA CCS charger w/my former Bolt (and once w/my '22 Niro EV) to either pay for juice (rarely) or get their free juice (a lot more), assuming all the stalls (or non-broken stalls) weren't taken, I was able to charge. Sure, there might be a down charger or handles w/broken tangs (not sure who is breaking them, how and why), but if I switch to another it works.

On EA, I've personally used their DC FCs from most to least: BTC Power, Signet, ABB (not much). I haven't ever physically seen their Efacec units.

Of course, I almost always check Plugshare first. Sometimes, I'm just in the area and on the lookout for complimentary session on their display. Now it doesn't matter much any more as I'm going to the office almost every weekday where I have free L2 juice.

Re: EA horror stories, besides the shutdown mentioned earlier, apparently, this guy in NY has had issues: DCFC reliability – An open Letter to Electrify America. It seems like EA eventually ripped out all the Efacec chargers and replaced them w/another vendor over there.

ARob's Spring 2022 Cross Country Bolt Trip Thread did an over 7K mile road trip in his Bolt w/61 EA sessions. A Chevrolet Bolt EV Set a Cannonball Run Record and No One Noticed | Torque News was almost all on EA. Some of the "horror stories" are from people who didn't plan, didn't check Plugshare, didn't know to support the handle and cable and used credit card readers (which can be broken).

This is a great response.

 

[Jeff N]

The issue is the need to EA makes a video on how to prop-up the cable since the cables and handles are so heavy. If you don't, the top portion for communications may not be connected and thus there will be a failure to start.

It doesn’t say on that EA video that the issue is a communication failure due to a connection problem. I’m pretty sure that’s not what the problem is.

The problem is that there is a motorized lock or clamp at the top of the CCS inlet on the vehicle that needs to reach out and grab onto the plug in order to prevent the plug and cable from being disconnected during later high power charging for safety reasons.

On the Bolt (and apparently BMW i3), the added strain from the liquid-cooled CCS cable can cause the CCS inlet on the vehicle to sag a bit due to the way it is mounted to the vehicle body. If the inlet sags too much it prevents the motorized inlet clamp from being able to physically grab onto the cable plug. The vehicle senses the locking failure and sends an error indication to the charger and the charging session establishment is terminated.

By supporting or holding up the cable during session establishment it prevents the sagging and allows the vehicle inlet clamp to lock onto the plug. The next time you do a CCS charge you can watch to see the clamp lock onto the cable. The problem only occurs on the Bolt (and i3…) occasionally depending upon the strain on the cable. If the problem would occur, you can see the vehicle try multiple times to engage the inlet clamp before giving up.

It seems like EA eventually ripped out all the Efacec chargers and replaced them w/another vendor over there.

The Efacec equipment was used in the SouthEast and Eastern regions so I have never used them personally in the Western US. My impression is that EA actually replaced the problematic Efacec hardware with a newer redesign from the same manufacturer.

ARob's Spring 2022 Cross Country Bolt Trip Thread did an over 7K mile road trip in his Bolt w/61 EA sessions. A Chevrolet Bolt EV Set a Cannonball Run Record and No One Noticed | Torque News was almost all on EA. Some of the "horror stories" are from people who didn't plan, didn't check Plugshare, didn't know to support the handle and cable and used credit card readers (which can be broken).

I’ll add that I drove a 2017 Bolt EV for ~80,000 miles over 4 years with many road trips around the Western US and Canada and I charged at EA well over 100 times at dozens of sites. I was inconvenienced many times but only truly failed to get a charge twice. On both occasions I found alternative workarounds so I was never stranded or forced to call a tow truck. I hear that they have improved somewhat and I assume they will continue to get better. I now drive a Tesla on long trips for better charging reliability and faster charging. The Bolt and EA were adequate and I had fun using them but the Tesla is clearly far superior.

 

[Mockingbird]

The Efacec equipment was used in the SouthEast and Eastern regions so I have never used them personally in the Western US. My impression is that EA actually replaced the problematic Efacec hardware with a newer redesign from the same manufacturer.

That's incorrect.

Electrify America no longer uses efacec chargers/dispensers.

 

[cwerdna]

It doesn’t say on that EA video that the issue is a communication failure due to a connection problem. I’m pretty sure that’s not what the problem is.

The problem is that there is a motorized lock or clamp at the top of the CCS inlet on the vehicle that needs to reach out and grab onto the plug in order to prevent the plug and cable from being disconnected during later high power charging for safety reasons.

On the Bolt (and apparently BMW i3), the added strain from the liquid-cooled CCS cable can cause the CCS inlet on the vehicle to sag a bit due to the way it is mounted to the vehicle body. If the inlet sags too much it prevents the motorized inlet clamp from being able to physically grab onto the cable plug. The vehicle senses the locking failure and sends an error indication to the charger and the charging session establishment is terminated.

By supporting or holding up the cable during session establishment it prevents the sagging and allows the vehicle inlet clamp to lock onto the plug. The next time you do a CCS charge you can watch to see the clamp lock onto the cable. The problem only occurs on the Bolt (and i3…) occasionally depending upon the strain on the cable. If the problem would occur, you can see the vehicle try multiple times to engage the inlet clamp before giving up.

Re: inlet sag, from what I recall on Bolt on EA's heavy cables, there was a quite a bit of vertical play of the handle before the plug gets locked to the car. I believe that if you connect, don't hold it up and it's not connected all the way/properly, there isn't even an attempt to lock, possibly due to the upper pins not being all connected.

I no longer have a Bolt (was bought back a few months ago at the 3 year mark) but I suspect I can find some videos (e.g. from News Coulomb) where he had a heavy plug, it failed and there was no charging lock sound.

 

[cwerdna]

Electrify America has a new test center in Reston, VA called the "Center of Excellence" where Electrify America's partners (Ford, Mercedes, KIA, Hyundai, etc.) would bring their pre-production vehicles for testing to make sure that they aren't plagued by incompatibility issues, unlike previous EVs.

You would think that Tesla would be sending its vehicles over for testing.

Yes, I'm aware of https://media.electrifyamerica.com/en-us/releases/171 "Since beginning operations in 2017, engineers and technicians have conducted more than 8,000 hours of interoperability tests on production and prototype EVs from nearly all vehicle manufacturers."

But, Electrify America Talks Charging Network Problems, Has Solutions from 2020, mentions their test lab
"If you remember at the beginning of this article I mentioned at Fietzek had to get to the lab early the day of my visit to remove vehicles from the testing facility. That was because I wasn't allowed to see them, as they were cars that haven't yet been introduced to the market. Palazzo told me that having the ability to work together with the OEM's engineers in their own lab, months or years before the vehicle ever hits the market will allow them to be certain it will not experience any charging issues on Electrify America's equipment. More reason to be positive about the future."

 

[chinney]

For now I am happy to stay within the Tesla Supercharger system for fast charging on the road, but I am glad to see that other EV charging systems are working fairly quickly to improve what they have to offer. And I look forward to the eventual easily availability of adapters that will allow interoperability between different charging systems. I have to think that in 5-10 years the current concerns about the availability, convenience and reliability of fast charging on the road, and about interoperability, will largely be a thing of the past.