The local walmart in Florida just installed chargers with many plugs for ccs and one plug for chademo. I'm dumbfounded as I'm guessing 90 percent of EV's are Tesla. Where I live Tesla are very common so why would you install chargers that no one but a small percentage of users can use? From what I can tell there doesn't even seem to be CCS adapters available, but regardless there are pleny of J1772 chargers around that I do't have to buy an adapter.
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CCS and Chademo charging at local walmart
- Thread starter robl45
- Start date
Probably funded by the VW settlement. They don’t use chademo.
Regardless, Tesla doesn't use either of those in the states. Every day I see at least 1 model 3 and I'm not counting mine. I don't go out much these days either. I pointed out a Jaguar electric to the wife a couple of weeks back, Those are rare. So these things just going to sit empty?
Even if Teslas make up a significant portion of existing EVs, that doesn't mean other charger standards will go unused. These stations help Tesla owners as well, expanding options and feasible routes (with the CHAdeMO adapter). Personally, it's hard to get around my province without CHAdeMO, and I had to use it on a trip to the US (can't connect to the Spokane, WA Supercharger in the winter without it).
I found it hard to get numbers that didn't include PHEVs, but it seems like 15-25% of BEVs out there in the US are non-Tesla (not sure about your specific area). To put that in context, consumer diesel vehicle sales apparently peaked around 3% in the US, yet you still have diesel available at many pumps. Fewer than gasoline pumps, but they definitely exist and I don't think anyone is debating the merit of having diesel available at these stations.
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The second point is that Tesla needs to adopt CCS Type 1 at some point anyway. Model 3s in Europe actually ship with a CCS (Type 2) port, not the Tesla-specific port. It's far easier for everyone to charge as a result - Tesla owners can use the many CCS stations available (not just Superchargers), and building a non-Tesla CCS station helps all EVs (minus CHAdeMO which is losing the popularity contest, which is why there is usually something like 2-4 CCS available but only 1 CHAdeMO at a station).
I found it hard to get numbers that didn't include PHEVs, but it seems like 15-25% of BEVs out there in the US are non-Tesla (not sure about your specific area). To put that in context, consumer diesel vehicle sales apparently peaked around 3% in the US, yet you still have diesel available at many pumps. Fewer than gasoline pumps, but they definitely exist and I don't think anyone is debating the merit of having diesel available at these stations.
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The second point is that Tesla needs to adopt CCS Type 1 at some point anyway. Model 3s in Europe actually ship with a CCS (Type 2) port, not the Tesla-specific port. It's far easier for everyone to charge as a result - Tesla owners can use the many CCS stations available (not just Superchargers), and building a non-Tesla CCS station helps all EVs (minus CHAdeMO which is losing the popularity contest, which is why there is usually something like 2-4 CCS available but only 1 CHAdeMO at a station).
Tesla does not sell their supercharger hardware, so they could not install a supercharger if they wanted to. CCS and Chademo are the only L3 charging solutions that are available for purchase (excluding the trivial).
The Tesla branded wall connector is L2 charging, and even in that case companies not affiliated with Tesla prefer to install the J1772 connector.
All these installations are bets by someone (not necessarily Walmart) on the future. EVs have a chicken-and-egg problem regarding public charging infrastructure. The chargers need to come before the vehicles and sit unused.
Candleflame
Active Member
easy to say for me given that i have type2 ccs on my car but i think the slim type 1 ccs adapter on teslas is just fine. the adapter can just sit in the glovebox until its needed and most american telsas rely on supercharging anyway. one advantage is that usa teslas can continue to have slim charging ports (though this doesnt apply to model 3s).
Model 3s in the US (and Canada) have the same port as Model S/X.
The slim port is such a silly thing and I hope that's not why they're holding onto it! But Tesla (Elon directly maybe) has sort of implied something like that in the past. Aesthetics over function and convenience.
Candleflame
Active Member
i know but the door is the same big ccs door we have in europe. whereaa the x/s has a very elegant small door fitted i to the taillight. yes its a silly reason but i thought id mention it
As someone else said, Electrify America (the chargers at WalMart) are funded by VW. Since VW EVs can't use the Tesla connector, EA went with CCS.
Most/many of the DC FCs installed at Walmarts in my area are EVgo, not Electrify America. Some of them were installed likely before EA ever installed a single public DC FC.
since this has been brought back to life, I'm still not sure what the point of the Chademo really is. It appears it is much slower than a supercharger, so shouldn't Tesla just make a CCS adapter for poeple that aren't near a supercharger?
I believe chademo is popular in Japan.
Of course they should make a ccs adapter, but it might not be easy for any number of reasons. And if only a few buy it, there isn’t much return on investment.
A Chademo adapter is a simplier creature than ccs. It was originally stop gap as the supercharger network rolled out, but there are still areas of North America where having the adapter is still very useful. As Chademo has expanded, it oddly has almost increased in usefulness. Too bad its limited to 50, as there are now hundreds of Chademos which can charge at 100+kW.
Chuq
Active Member
That's Tesla's decision and no-one elses. As others in this thread have mentioned, they've opted to support industry standards in other regions, but not in North America. By the same logic someone could look at a Tesla supercharger and say "why would you install chargers that no one but one brand of car can use?"
The other thing is only Tesla installs superchargers. If some other company is building it, they can ask Tesla to install a supercharger but if they say no then that's it.
Yes it is. Per Chademo Association – EV Fast Charging Organisation, there are 7700 CHAdeMO chargers in Japan, a country about 90% the size of California.
CHAdeMO pre-dates Tesla Supercharger and CCS by several years. When Leaf began shipping in Dec 2010 w/optional CHAdeMO inlet, Tesla hadn't even announced what would become their Supercharger network and the standards work on CCS hadn't even been completed.
Mall Gets First Public SAE Fast-Charging Station for EVs was in late 2013 and the first vehicle in the US w/SAE Combo didn't happen until around Dec 2013: First Car Sold With CCS Fast Charging Now Delayed To December. It was a CA compliance car sold only in CA then eventually Oregon that sold in tiny numbers. It was the only SAE Combo (Combo1 flavor of CCS) car available in the US until the BMW i3 came along.
I'm sure Tesla had to do the CHAdeMO adapter since apparently, Japanese market Teslas use the same inlet as North American ones and CHAdeMO is huge there. Japan in Sept 2014 had a CHAdeMO adapter in the trunk of his S before the adapter was even for sale in the US.
Besides Teslas w/CHAdeMO adapter, in the US there are plenty of existing CHADeMO compatible cars running around and a few new ones (not including Tesla) being added each month. That said, given that Nissan decided to go with CCS for the US and Europe for Ariya, I suspect CHAdeMO will begin a slow decline in the US, if it hasn't already.
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I wish tesla would just have the same connector as other makers and just software lock the superchargers. It’s annoying having dongles on your iPhone, and android yet you have to buy a $450 dongle just to plug in your tesla. Superchargers aren’t the solution since more of them are congested and I’m seeing more non-tesla ev chargers next to superchargers which is a step in the right direction. There’s presidence to this given Europe has legislated universal connectors.
BTW, for reference, it looks like Tesla's Superchargers were announced in late Sept 2012. Prior to that, Teslas couldn't be DC fast charged at all and I vaguely recall all sorts of speculation about DC fast charging and battery swapping. (Yes, battery swapping was shown at another event. There was one station and it closed years ago.)
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