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Ccs and future connection standards
- Thread starter LukeT
- Start date
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
Looks like CCS adaptor for newer Model-S/X is imminent, and adopter for older models coming soon. Around £150. Price more appealing than CHAdeMO 
Tesla launches $190 CCS adapter for new Model S and Model X, offers retrofits for older vehicles
I wonder if that puts the kibosh on Tesla doing a Model-S/X Revamp with CCS as standard.
Tesla launches $190 CCS adapter for new Model S and Model X, offers retrofits for older vehicles
I wonder if that puts the kibosh on Tesla doing a Model-S/X Revamp with CCS as standard.
Details at the bottom of this page. Adapter costs £145 but requires an upgrade in the car - standard since 1st May 19, so presumably introduced at the same time as the change to motors etc. Upgrade costs £280 (£425 including the adapter) and supposedly available from 1st June.
My guess is that we will see CCS as standard next time they do an exterior revamp of Model S.
My guess is that we will see CCS as standard next time they do an exterior revamp of Model S.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
Having mulled it a bit, a simple adaptor plus a bit of retro-fit must mean no significant change to circuitry, no compatibility with existing battery type so just a bodywork/connector issue at revamp ...
So new Superchargers will be CCS only then ... and take other paying-customer-brands maybe?
I see it the other way around, the CCS adapter and modifications are to allow Tesla owners access to 3rd party CCS charging networks.
The V3 Superchargers do not need to be CCS only, as we've already seen, the current generation of Superchargers have been converted to allow both Type 2 and CCS in Europe.
Yes, but I forsee a future where it flips around and instead of having a few dual-cable supercharger stalls marked "model 3 priority", the majority will be CCS only and a few dual cable ones marked "Model S/X priority". It would be surprising if the S/X don't eventually get upgraded to have CCS connectors like the 3 rather than needing the adapter, and after that (and with vastly larger numbers of 3 vs existing S/X) it is no longer justifiable to keep dual-fitting all supercharger stalls - it costs money, and has an overall negative effect on user experience (better for the handful of old S/X, worse for the 3 and new S/X who get confused over which connector to use).
So it's not happening any time soon, but seems like a sure bet for the long term.
Other brands at superchargers is another question - driven more by politics than anything else, so hard to predict.
So it's not happening any time soon, but seems like a sure bet for the long term.
Other brands at superchargers is another question - driven more by politics than anything else, so hard to predict.
Interesting. And for me either timely or the opposite, I'm not sure. I ordered a Model S yesterday, so it will have new motors, suspension and the little charging speed upgrade I think, and perhaps this adapter in the boot. But still the old charging port and likely to be seen as at the newer end of an older series of cars, which could be good or bad it seems to me, perhaps taking a depreciation hit as a result if the interior refresh is well liked.
I assume the "Model 3 priority" signs are to come in the UK and that the etiquette will be that if there's space you plug your MS/X into the other one, but if there isn't it's first come first served. If they've converted every charger to take a M3 and now MS/Xs can have an adapter for £150, then essentially everyone can use every charger, can they not (so long as they've bought an adapter, which I guess most will over the space of a year or two)?
I assume the "Model 3 priority" signs are to come in the UK and that the etiquette will be that if there's space you plug your MS/X into the other one, but if there isn't it's first come first served. If they've converted every charger to take a M3 and now MS/Xs can have an adapter for £150, then essentially everyone can use every charger, can they not (so long as they've bought an adapter, which I guess most will over the space of a year or two)?
Actually, they've almost been and gone - when there were only a couple of dual-cable stalls at a site, they were labelled "Model 3 priority" with etiquette as you say, but now there is good progress towards 100% dual-fitted and no longer needing the labels. The rollout of the upgrade has been surprisingly quick.
Fantastic news, with this retrofit our 2017 X can charge at CHADEMO (with adaptor), CCS, pull 18KW at fast AC, and Tesla SC. Interms of accessing existing charging infrastructure it's unbeatable. Also great to see CCS adaptor will support 120KW+ charging, even better news even our 75D X can do hit over 110KW with latest firmware changes
.No brainer retrofit for us existing S/X owners planning on keeping the cars longterm.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
yes, you could be right, but I reckon costs money to have two hoses
Although ... I anticipate a price hike for Refresh, so chances are good you are buying at bargain price, and depreciation not significantly hit as a consequence.
2 hoses?
I took the view that we have only recently seen a substantial drop in price for a 100kWh battery car, plus some little improvements just come in, so I figure we're probably below the best fit line of long term reducing price per battery size over time. So I don't see it as a "bad" time. I do think it'll depreciate harder now though with M3 and wider competition.
At the end of the day I strongly wanted to take the plunge and while I'm certain it'll still look expensive to some 3 years hence, as a 3 years ago MS purchase will, we remain at a time of transition, I will not buy an internal combustion engine in 2019, and my current car needs to retire. You lot all took similar calls some time ago, similar maths. I applaud you.
Next time I buy a car it'll be a 3 year old ford/volvo/vw I imagine, electric, nearly self driving and common as muck!
I severely doubt Tesla will allow third party cars to charge on their network particularly since the sudden increase in Supercharger demand from all the new M3 users.
I’m still in 2 minds if I’ll get an adapter since I don’t see when I’ll use it (maybe IKEA when I need to stock up on tea lights or the occasional non-Tesla chargers around the country).
I’m still in 2 minds if I’ll get an adapter since I don’t see when I’ll use it (maybe IKEA when I need to stock up on tea lights or the occasional non-Tesla chargers around the country).
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
Old supercharger stalls which now have a second hose for M3 CCS port, in addition to the cable for older type-2 Model-S/X style charge port
I reckon that is a "demand lever" to keep sales up in the runup to a Refresh. But I very much doubt that the Refresh will be the current price ...
I don't know for sure ... but I wonder how much M3s will supercharge. Most of the times I stop at a Supercharger majority of the stalls are empty ... I actively avoid the 2-stall sites though ... and in three years I have only once had to wait, and that was a 4-stall site and the wait was between 5 and 10 minutes (and that included another car which was ahead of me in the queue)
Noone took Tesla up on Supercharger use, but that would have required that Brand to use Tesla proprietary charger plug. Now that Tesla EU has CCS stalls no reason not to off to other brands ... Tesla could use the money.
But maybe Tesla see Supercharger as a means of selling cars ... "You can buy iPace which can charge at any Ionity stall, but M3 can charge there and at the Myriad of Supercharger stalls"
Good for any CCS stall of which there are hundreds scattered around the UK. Those are all slowish though ... but I can see them being very useful for either emergency-range-solution or a slowish charge whilst-shopping. I have used destination charge whilst walking around a National Trust site ... couple of hours at 7kW can be enough to then avoid having to do splash-and-dash at Supercharger on the way home ... Don't know what the kW of CCS tends to be, but my understanding is pretty much zero 100kW+ yet in the UK, of the rest is 50kW normal? or are there some much slower CCS ones knocking about (i.e. equivalent of destination charger)
50kW is going to take an hour to charge .. enough time to get something else done rather than just a Coffee-and-Pee stop.
Ionity will be approx supercharger speed, and are targeting a reasonable number of sites in the UK, not all of which duplicate superchargers. If they get round to building the one they have planning permission for at Thurrock, that will be much more convenient than the supercharger at Bluewater, for example.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
Maidstone is apparently built but not yet active (announced as "next month"); Milton Keynes and Gretna Green are allegedly under construction. There's planning permission at Thurrock and one just short of Swansea - and quite likely others that haven't been found yet. They have a partnership with petrol station operator MRH for sites.
So early days as yet, but crucially they are high-power and CCS-only (no CHAdeMO or AC).
On the >50kW CCS front, there's also Fastned near Sunderland, though they have CHAdeMO as well as CCS. Fastned were supposed to have won one of the TFL contracts for London, though that was a long time ago and nothing seems to have happened.
So on the subject of what one now needs to carry in the car, am I right that a new MS/X, which will now be delivered with the means to charge from CCS, Commando and 3-pin, therefore has the vast majority of current (and foreseeable future) charging locations covered?
Wilds of Scotland here we come...
Wilds of Scotland here we come...
New cars will be delivered with the ability to use the CCS adapter, but it is still an optional extra purchase.
There was something on the Tesla website a while ago that suggested the adapter would be included but that was an error apparently.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
"Can use the CCS adaptor without further modification [as is needed for older cars]" so budget £150 for the adaptor.
You also get a Type-2 cable (I assume that is still standard), and optionally you can buy an "end" for 3-Phase Commando, and a Schuko for EU - although there has been chatter that you might be better off with a more DIY adaptor so you can swap Live-and-Neutral if you wind up somewhere in France that is wired back-to-front (my In-laws place in France was ...)
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