Change from alcantara to cloth on PUP???

[jjwardSD]

It's probably best not to drive with your eyeball stuck to the liners.

I guess I am supposed to laugh, but I don’t get it. Just trying to help people see what they will get since we are all going in blind. The more you know about the latest build config the more prepared you will be. I expect more changes and will try to update when possible.

 

[insaneoctane]

Wow. Even with the occasional "it's no big deal" fanboy comments, 25 pages of pissed off Tesla fans in less than 48 hours speaks volumes about what a cluster F Tesla has created here!

• I'm NOT crazy for expecting premium materials for my $60K version of Tesla's $35K car
• Making 1,500 cars with premium materials thereby guaranteeing all initial reviews (professional, YouTube and forum) have them is total BS
• How much money could Tesla possibly be saving in exchange for the trust and faith in brand quality that was lost here? Stupid.
• Who has real information about how much money a reputable aftermarket installer would charge to replace the pillars and headliner materials with ultrasuede?
• Shouldn't lawyers be lining up to make a class action lawsuit here? I don't think it's a slam dunk, but it certainly has a large up$ide
• I just wish Tesla would do the right thing here and undue all the damage.... Admit it was an oversight, that Ultrasuede will, again, return as implied, and anyone who got cloth that would prefer ultrasuede can have it fixed in a future service visit. PR nightmare over. Emotional capital fully restored. Then bring the shi##y cloth back on the standard models

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Unfortunately, it appears the frustration is less about the headliner but what feel like obfuscation and poor customer communication on the part of Tesla. They can and should do better because so many customers / employees serve as ambassadors to the brand. This could go bad for Tesla if they let this sort of thing go unaddressed.

Unfortunately for those of us watching Tesla much longer, this is not just about the comms, but the policies and culture behind the comms. The obfuscation unfortunately seem intentional and they don't see want to change that.

I mean, who here seriously believes this change was "always planned" at this stage of production? Planned since the Alcantara supplier dumped them perhaps, or since they made some other change, but "always"? Why do they feel the need to say something like that...

Because obfuscation, seems like the likeliest scenario. Speculation of course, but this has been happening a lot and over a long time.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Volkswagen and Audi change things mid-year all the time with no notice or announcement. I've personally owned a car that said one thing in the manual and had another thing in the car. I have often had to include a VIN when ordering parts because of this. It's probably done on other brands, I just know for certain with VW/Audi.

Tesla is doing a terrible job of communicating about this and managing customer expectations with some of their biggest fans. That's bad. But the mid-run change without an announcement is not weird for a car manufacturer at all.

Audi/Volkswagen does announce all changes you can see, though. There are two weeks in a year of production when these normally happen and they circulate a fairly detailed list.

For example week 22 (model-year change week, but not a facelift time) back in 2006 changed the material in the Audi A6 dash's surroundings as well as interior lights. It was generally considered a desired change and it was towards the better, but just as an example.

The change was communicated proactively on these lists.

Who here wouldn't like to, say, have a site where all Tesla's changes were listed? That would be nice.

 

[Cintoman]

I for one noted the alcantara-like/ultra-suede material right off the bat when seeing the first pics of the Model 3. And whether it's considered a premium material or not, **I** feel that it is. Again, I see this material in the higher-end S4/RS4 but not in the lower end A4. While some here might not even noticed what their headliner material has been in their past 15 cars, the material, fit/finish is a big thing my non-diagnosed OCD looks for in every car. And as a Day-1 in-line pre-reveal non-owner reservation holder, the look/feel of the alcantara-like/ultra-suede material was a big draw that IMHO offset the Scandinavian-like spartan interior. I had the benefit of sitting in YouYou's car when he came by MA, and both of my kids (girl 15 and boy 14) clearly noticed the headliner material and commented on how nice it felt and looked.

A deal-breaker this isn't for me. But a MAJOR MAJOR disappointment considering this will be my first brand new car ever, and one of the most expensive ones I've ever bought. And I'm not coming from a Kia/Hyundai/Chevy/Nissan owner (no offense to anyone that owns these brands), but this coming from my current 2005 Mercedes-Benz C230 Sport Sedan. Which, BTW, looks to have the same textile headliner material (which I don't like at all) as this new textile material in the 3. And something I've proven many times in cleaning my interior, that is much more difficult to clean than ultra-suede.

I've been a huge proponent of Tesla since the Roadster 1.0 days and an IPO shareholder. And I've been fighting and defending them among the doubters in my circle of family and friends for over a decade. But there comes a point where I can only defend so much. Tesla's excuse for getting rid of the alcantara-like/ultra-suede material is a ridiculous lie that really stabs the heart of the tens of thousands of followers that have been defending and promoting Tesla.

--Cintoman

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Again, I see this material in the higher-end S4/RS4 but not in the lower end A4.

Yes, same with BMW M3 having Alcantara, base 3 Series not. Alcantara is generally considered a premium material. It is expensive too. Definitely the safe bet is that the cloth replacing Alcantara now is cheaper, after all Model S/X had that same cloth (that is now the headliner in all Model 3, S and X apparently) as the base option and had Alcantara as the premium option (e.g. in the premium upgrades package)... Why would this cloth have been "base" in S/X and Alcantara was the "premium", but now suddently this cloth is "premium"... Yeah... smells of making words up.

I can't think of any car where Alcantara would be the base option and some basic weaved cloth the premium option. No, Alcantara is the premium option and for good reason. If there is a car with a more premium headliner beyond Alcantara, then that material is something rather more exlusive, definitely not a rather simple weaved cloth...

 

[omgwtfbyobbq]

The more posts I read in this thread, the more I think of this Futurama clip...

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Hello Eric,

As we continue to increase production of Model 3 and produce more high quality cars for customers, all Model 3 vehicles are being made with the same premium textile headliner found in our flagship Model S and Model X vehicles, which has always been planned at this stage of production. The Model 3 is a great car, and the premium package (PUP) retains premium finishes throughout the cabin, and benefits from a variety of other functional enhancements including premium audio, upgraded side mirrors, and heated front and rear seats.

This is the product that we are making going forward, and we did not communicate that customers would receive a specific material. We made this transition in S/X some time ago, and have been referring to this material as a Premium Headliner in those vehicles.The current material is also a premium headliner, but with a different texture, where durability has remain unchanged, and this is our product that we stand behind.

I hope this helps clear things up for you, and my apologies if it was not the exact response you desired. Thank you for being part of our growing Tesla family!

This arrogant statement pissed me off even more. Is there no communications team at Tesla?

Tesla's excuse for getting rid of the alcantara-like/ultra-suede material is a ridiculous lie that really stabs the heart of the tens of thousands of followers that have been defending and promoting Tesla.

The more I think about how Tesla communicates these changes and how they sell their cars, it isn't the changes that are the problem, it is how those changes are communicated. And namely the policies and culture that cause the comms be like that. (We were just discussing similar things in the SpaceX forum.)

Sure, Alcantara headliner is more premium and nicer than the old base weaved cloth is. Sure. AP2's AP1 parity being delayed by year+ is too bad, better if no delay had existed etc. BUT what if Tesla had gone to lengths to make sure we know of the honest situation beforehand? Instead of springing on it as a surprise and/or spinning some velvety yarn (no pun intended) that most intelligent people have a hard time believing, let alone appreciating. That would have made a huge difference.

A quick blog post to this effect the day first non-Alcantara headliners were delivered (and similar message from specialists) would have been a completely different story IMO:

"A note on Alcantara

Hello Tesla customers, just letting you know that starting with deliveries today, we are discontinuing Alcantara fabric in our cars (in headliners [and elsewhere?]). Some may still be delivered with Alcantara, but we are transitioning away from it due to supplier issues. We know some love Alcantara, and this is why we are letting you know - we apologize for any incovenience to customers affected. That said, we do think the replacement cloth headliner we are using is very nice too and our store personnel and delivery specialists are happy to demonstrate it to you. All new orders will ship with this new cloth. Please contact us at xxx for questions."

Instead of the silence, followed by unbelievable spin when "caught"... a note like that would have been a completely different story IMO.

But then, just like with AP2, P85D HP, P90DL counters, etc. Tesla seems to have a very different communications policy. Perhaps they think there are more people making positive decisions regarding Tesla than there are negative, when spinning this yarn, as opposed to being more open and proactive... Still, too bad.

 

[souslik]

As a communications professional I think Tesla just underestimated how important the headliner material is to some people or how much people feel screwed over by a change in material. They probably thought people wouldn't care that much. And sure, many won't. But some do and they make themselves heard.

People are divided over Alcantara. Some see it as premium and others don't. I thought with the abundance of poorly designed cheap microsuede furniture, Alcantara had long lost its premium image. I personally wouldn't accept plastic as a premium material but am totally fine with a textile headliner.

 

[Lem89]

-Mommy, I wanted what he got. Mine's not as good as his.
-But dear they ran out of those and did their best to make it look nice. You still got everything else on the list. What a wonderful car.
-No, I'm mad! His is better than mine it's not fair.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

People are divided over Alcantara. Some see it as premium and others don't. I thought with the abundance of poorly designed cheap microsuede furniture, Alcantara had long lost its premium image. I personally wouldn't accept plastic as a premium material but am totally fine with a textile headliner.

It is one thing had Tesla introduced some new fabric in this process, but what really happened so far is:

1) Tesla had a base cloth headliner material, for years (in S/X, and this was expected logically to be in base 3 as well)
2) Tesla had a premium Alcantara headliner material, for years (premium choice in S/X/3, packaging changed a bit over time but basically always a high-end option)

Mind you the above is also the industry norm.

Then:

3) Tesla discontinues premium Alcantara headliner material without any new or direct replacement
4) Tesla starts calling former low-end, base cloth headliner material as "premium textile" and ships all S/X/3 with that instead of just shipping non-optioned base models with it (according to their statement they call it premium on S/X too now)

The old base material is now suddenly a premium textile!?! W... w... what? (BTW: That is not the industry norm.)

It is this relative change, combined with the poor comms, that makes the change jarring - not necessarily the debate on what is premium, but the fact that the old base material is now supposedly suddenly the premium material. The same old base-model material was simply re-branded in such a brazen manner.

It is like Tesla discontinues the P100D Model S and simply renames 75D as P100D (or even just renames it P75D) and calls it a day. (To exaggerate to illustrate the point.)

That's a tall order to take at face value.

 

[Sunlight]

If the alcantara (or whatever) liner was only on the first few (1500?) cars, then surely we can consider it an 'early beta' special 'gift'! (Most probably left over from X and S production when they dropped it - did they on all versions?)

If the X and S now have the same liner as the 3, there is no way it makes sense to have different materials across the range.?

OK so people made the assumption that what they saw in earlier cars was what they'd get but then there may be lots of other 'improvements' across the cars since the early ones that may not be obvious - do people want to go back on all changes?

Maybe Tesla want a heap of alcantara cancellations to manage the numbers and production slow down for now! Please all alcantara aficionados cancel now..........

From an African perspective, this all looks a bit like a first world issue! (But perhaps a single line clarifying this on the order page may have helped?)

 

[AnxietyRanger]

@Sunlight

You may misunderstand the history.

Tesla used to have two headliners across the range, for many years:

1) Base cloth (S/X base options, expected 3 base options)
2) Premium Alcantara (S/X/3 high-end options)

Above, by the way, is very usual in the industry too.

Now they only have:

1) The same old base cloth (labelled now Premium Textile) for all S/X/3 from base to the highest end

This is not unheard of in itself in Model 3's price-range, but given that it applies to all S/X/3, that is unusual. As is the renaming to premium textile, when it used to be just the base option without any such label...

From an African perspective, this all looks a bit like a first world issue! (But perhaps a single line clarifying this on the order page may have helped?)

The German premium car dealerships sell Alcantara headliners in high-end cars in South Africa too.

 

[mattack4000]

I don't get it, I thought the Alcantara was standard on all S/X since late 2016 and some of the earlier PUP cars had the alcantara on the dash as part of the premium package, not the headliner. They took the dash part away, but are you sure all the S/X don't come with them anymore? The few I saw last month had it.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

They took the dash part away, but are you sure all the S/X don't come with them anymore? The few I saw last month had it.

Yes, I would say we are now sure.

Tesla drops Alcantara headliners from Model S/X?

 

[Sunshine State]

Tesla does have problems with their suppliers dumping them. Then afterwards spinning how they got rid of them and the downgrade is actually an improvement. It seems that is their corporate culture, very reminiscent of the AP issues. I can’t think of one other car where cloth is considered premium above alcantara as it is the opposite, or where production cars are displayed with one product and then another obviously lower grade product is delivered without notice.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Tesla does have problems with their suppliers dumping them. Then afterwards spinning how they got rid of them and the downgrade is actually an improvement. It seems that is their corporate culture, very reminiscent of the AP issues.

That is a plausible theory, unfortunately.

 

[Sunshine State]

They may be switching over to a premium gas or diesel power going forward but just spinning it as “Now Premium advanced technology with even more range with a fraction of the recharge time” all this at no additional charge as we have been planning it all along.

 

[jelloslug]

I suppose there is nothing anyone can do about it....so......maybe we all just.......accept whatever we get.

Maybe I will buy my own.....because I love the way it looks and feels.

Lt Gray "Alcantara" Type Suede 5 Yards Auto Headliner Fabric | eBay

Just as an FYI, that material is nothing like actual Alcantara. Real Alcantara does not have a foam backing and the actual fabric is much thicker. I have purchased it by the yard before and there are not many upholstery stores that have access to the real material. The last time I bought some it was $105 a yard for the "Panel grade" material.

 

[CuriousG]

At least one person at Service Center, according to @CuriousG. But no official word what happened.

That was the story he told me. However, he also said they made 2000 cars with the Alcantara. My VIN is in low 20xx. Would be interesting to see where the cutoff is once people start reporting their VIN with or without Alcantara.