Charging / battery degradation question

[monkeymhs]

My parents have an ID.4 but I have a Model Y so I figure I’d ask a question about charging here, in case anyone with an EV can answer it.

Obviously most EV makers will tell you to only charge to 80% for normal use and 100% for long range.

My parents mostly drive locally but occasionally go on longer day trips.

My question is, can my parents, who are elder, keep the charging capacity at 100% but only charge to 80% regularly without messing with the degradation of the battery? I’m trying to help them avoid moving that capacity back and forth and possibly forgetting.

Asked another way.. Is charging to 80%, while on max 100% capacity different than charging to 80% on 80% capacity?

 

[E90alex]

80% is 80%

If you’re worried about them forgetting to change the limit, wouldn’t they forget to stop charging/unplug at 80% and leave it going to 100%?

 

[monkeymhs]

Thanks for the response!

My dad enjoys new things and has nothing better to do so he already checks the app multiple times while it’s charging to see how much they get in a certain period of time.

I’m not sure how often he’ll do it going forward but figured I could confirm this before letting them know.

 

[Brando]

What does his ID.4 manual say?
What does your Model Y manual say?
Are they the same?

no reply expected

 

[GtiMart]

I believe that the ID.4, like many other EVs except Tesla, have a top buffer built-in. That means that charging to 100% isn't really charging the battery to the maximum of their capacity. There is normally a few kWh of buffer up top that's never used. That means you can charge to 100% of what you have control of and not worry about degradation. If you really want to be sure you'll need to dig for that infromation. If Kyle Conner from Out of Spec motoring / reviews (youtube) has done a coverage of it, and I think he did, you would get that information there.

 

[JimCpayIt4ward]

I just took delivery of my model X 2022 plaid a month ago. I have it set to 90% charge and it gets to about 280 miles at that level. I though the model c plaid max was 335 which should put me at about 301 at 90%. Anyone have this issue? Seems it’s coming up a bit short?

 

[Cutch26]

I just took delivery of my model X 2022 plaid a month ago. I have it set to 90% charge and it gets to about 280 miles at that level. I though the model c plaid max was 335 which should put me at about 301 at 90%. Anyone have this issue? Seems it’s coming up a bit short?

That’s weird my plaid X chargers to 303 consistently at 90% maybe you have it set to 80 instead?

 

[Wayne360]

I own a 2022 Model Y Performance. Took possession on 31, March. (so I consider myself a newbie) From the first day I've been charging to 80% as per the manual recommendations on a level 2 home charger and I have been charging everyday, no matter how far I've driven that day; as soon as I pull into the garage at the end of the day I plug-in. A couple days within a week I do not have to travel: (1) To the office. (2) Run errands so the vehicle is parked but still plug-in. I was fine with this until I read a article from Opiwatt "Should I charge my Tesla every day (or Night)" by Matthew Grace. In this article the author focuses on the amount of times the vehicle is being charged (cycle count) as a source of delegation especially if usage per outing consumes low percentages of the 80% set point or milage per day is somewhere on average around 37 miles per day (I fall in this category). The conclusion of the article; if usage per day is low one should not charge everyday but charge when needed therefore reducing the amount of charge cycle count and even reducing electrical consumption for the month. Here's my question, should we (those of us who on average drive 37 mile or less preday) abandon what's in the manual and focus on "cycle count" to reduce degradation on our batteries?
Thanks for reading.

 

[jdw]

A cycle is a full discharge and charge (100% to 0%) or 80% to 60% and back five times - not the number of times you plug in to charge.

Also, the battery management system on 3's and Y's takes a while (3 hours or more) to measure battery voltage and requires capturing the battery at different states of charge, so you'd be better off to let the car sit/sleep for 3+ hours both before and after charging so it can do that. Occasionally, a deeper discharge (20-50%) to a higher charge (95-100%), with a 3 hour sleep time before and after, will keep your battery calibration more accurate.

Shallow charge cycles are better than deeper cycles both for calibration and for the battery, so regular charging is good in combination with some time spent in different states of charge. If you have days where you don't drive, then leave the car sitting at a lower state of charge for a day or two and set charging to finish 3-4 hours before you want to leave, unless you need to warm the battery/condition the car in the winter.

 

[Wayne360]

jdw, thank you for the info provided in your reply, appreciate it.
Thank you for the recommendation on the battery management system on these models.

I provided the link to the article I read, I believe the author of the article has a different spin on how "cycle count" is measured.

Should I charge my Tesla every day and night? | Optiwatt

What are the pros and cons of frequent charging? We took a look at all the factors, so you don’t have to, and here is what we found.

getoptiwatt.com

It appears both of you are in agreement in regards to how low usage users should charge.

regards, Wayne

 

[Dr. J]

jdw, thank you for the info provided in your reply, appreciate it.
Thank you for the recommendation on the battery management system on these models.

I provided the link to the article I read, I believe the author of the article has a different spin on how "cycle count" is measured.

Should I charge my Tesla every day and night? | Optiwatt

What are the pros and cons of frequent charging? We took a look at all the factors, so you don’t have to, and here is what we found.

getoptiwatt.com

It appears both of you are in agreement in regards to how low usage users should charge.

regards, Wayne

From the article: "A battery’s cycle count is the number of times it is charged and then discharged, regardless of the energy used."

Not directly comparable (because it talks about "cycle life"), this is from a Tesla blog: "For Li-ion cells, manufacturers define cycle life as the number of full discharge-charge cycles that it takes to reduce a cell's capacity to some fraction of its original state." Source: A Bit About Batteries

A "cycle" is a full charge and discharge. The writer of the article is confused about what a "cycle" is.

 

[Ruffus23]

LFP does seem superior.

 

[sleepydoc]

Regarding cycle count, you are correct but there is a graph from an article on battery university that’s been posted on TMC multiple times showing the difference in degradation from differing charging schemes. That graph uses a different charging cycle definition so it has caused some confusion.

 

[hw13]

My parents have an ID.4 but I have a Model Y so I figure I’d ask a question about charging here, in case anyone with an EV can answer it.

Obviously most EV makers will tell you to only charge to 80% for normal use and 100% for long range.

My parents mostly drive locally but occasionally go on longer day trips.

My question is, can my parents, who are elder, keep the charging capacity at 100% but only charge to 80% regularly without messing with the degradation of the battery? I’m trying to help them avoid moving that capacity back and forth and possibly forgetting.

Asked another way.. Is charging to 80%, while on max 100% capacity different than charging to 80% on 80% capacity?

80% is too high. Do a search there are tons of posts on this. The ideal SOC is 45%. Just do +/-10% around that if you don't need to go on a long trip.