Check my math: Electric vs Gas

[drayers]

Living under SoCal Edison rates with a Tesla has triggered an unfortunate rise in my electric bill (as expected).

I wanted to see how economical my new car is against a fuel efficient ICE or hybrid.
Napkin math:
$4/gal / 40mpg = $0.10 per mile

$0.30/kWh / 3mi/kWh = $0.10 per mile


Now the tier rates in SCE don't start at $0.30/kWh, but they do go up quite quickly into Tier 3-4 if I'm driving more often. My driving habits improve when I'm low on battery but I average 350+Wh/mi (worse in the winter).

One might argue that 40mpg is tough to maintain without a hybrid, but gas looks like it's closer to $3.50 in CA (winter).

Does this mean I'm not really saving any money by driving electric?

 

[steve841]

That is some expensive electricity.... $.08 here in FL.

 

[Alysashley79]

I'm shocked at how much you guys pay for electricity!!!! We pay a flat rate of $.09/kWh here so I could have twice owned my previous honda pilot in the 6 years and 160,000 miles I put on it. Is that why so many people in so cal are putting in solar panels? I'm just curious? My husband and I looked into getting them installed and it would take us 25 years to recoup the cost given how much we pay for electricity each month for our home etc...

I do have to say. You. Might not be saving all that much during the winter months driving your tesla but would you have as. Much fun or have such a big grin on your face while driving hath economical ICE or hybrid?

 

[JohnQ]

Living under SoCal Edison rates with a Tesla has triggered an unfortunate rise in my electric bill (as expected).

I wanted to see how economical my new car is against a fuel efficient ICE or hybrid.
Napkin math:
$4/gal / 40mpg = $0.10 per mile

$0.30/kWh / 3mi/kWh = $0.10 per mile


Now the tier rates in SCE don't start at $0.30/kWh, but they do go up quite quickly into Tier 3-4 if I'm driving more often. My driving habits improve when I'm low on battery but I average 350+Wh/mi (worse in the winter).

One might argue that 40mpg is tough to maintain without a hybrid, but gas looks like it's closer to $3.50 in CA (winter).

Does this mean I'm not really saving any money by driving electric?

Don't forget that a similar ICE vehicle would get closer to 20 mpg and require premium. Some applesranges going on in your math.

Damn emoticon coding changed my apples"colon"oranges to some bizarre fruit face … was trying to shorthand apples to oranges :smile: (intended smile)

 

[phx182flyer]

Yup. You will never, ever get 40MPG in an ICE while driving it the same way we tend to drive a Tesla...

 

[neroden]

Your electricity is stupidly expensive anyway. Have you considered getting solar panels and batteries from SolarCity? Might be cheaper. :tongue:

 

[cwave1]

We pay about 0.07 for off-peak electricity in Ontario.

We can also sell electricity from a solar system back to the government at 0.397 so there are ways to actually make money running a Tesla and solar.

 

[mai]

You need to switch to a time-of-use rate schedule. SCE offers this: https://www.sce.com/NR/sc3/tm2/pdf/CE324.pdf - $0.07 per kWh for night charging (midnight-6am) and daytime rates peak at $0.24 per kWh.

 

[astrotoy]

In Norcal with PG&E we pay 10 cents per kwh flat rate at night on the EV (Electric Vehicle) rate. Compared to my Lexus LS460L (which I think is a good ICE Apples to Apples comparison) with mostly city driving like our Tesla, we get about 18 mpg (at $3.80 per gallon for premium which is ) is 21 cents per mile. With my MS, we get about 350 watts per mile or 3.5 cents per mile. Not including whatever line losses occur in the electrical charging nor the cost of oil changes for the Lexus, roughly we pay about 6 times less to drive the Tesla than the Lexus.

 

[RAM_Eh]

We pay about 0.07 for off-peak electricity in Ontario.

We can also sell electricity from a solar system back to the government at 0.397 so there are ways to actually make money running a Tesla and solar.

That must be a new rate as I am selling at 0.802.

 

[jcaspar]

All I know is that it seems gas prices have done nothing but drop since I bought my P85! Now at 3.35 in NorCal. Our electricity is .09$ for the first 800kWhr, .17$ after that.

 

[techMology]

That must be a new rate as I am selling at 0.802.

Yep, it is. You got yourself an awesome deal. I can't remember when they adjusted the rate (12-18 months ago?), but it changed the economics for this companies who's business models were built on the 0.802 rate.

 

[Duckjybe]

We pay about 0.07 for off-peak electricity in Ontario.

Don't let the utilities fool you. On our bill it says the delivery charge contains fixed and usage based fees but they don't break it down. Add about $0.04 per KWh for the usage based delivery charge at any time of the day! This is a real pet peeve of mine! We pay more per KWh here in Ontario than people are led to believe on the bill. And if you own a residence designated "seasonal" you might pay .20 to .24 per KWh.

 

[Canuck]

I found this:


The study determined Vancouver customers pay 8.91 cents per kilowatt-hour of electricity consumed, while neighbours in Toronto pay 12.48 cents per kilowatt-hour.
According to the study, Calgarians pay 14.81 cents per kilowatt-hour. Only Montreal had a lower rate, at 6.87 cents per kilowatt-hour.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...o-increase-28-per-cent-over-5-years-1.2440437

 

[100thMonkey]

the national average is about 12 cents per kW, so you are paying 2.5 times the national average, that said at 443 lb-ft of instant torque, you can not compare your cost at 40 mpg. to get that kind of instant torque you need to be comparing your gas mileage to a supercar. A quick search for comparable shows a MCLaren PM4-12C at 443 lb·ft and 15 mpg's, and that's not a 5 adult, 2 kid, 4,647.3 lbs sedan with frunk, it's a racing car! It's hard to find a comparable. suffice it to say, for what the Tesla S is, it's incredibly efficient (with all seasons and an alignment job ;~).

 

[cwerdna]

the national average is about 12 cents per kW, so you are paying 2.5 times the national average

I'm not in the same part of CA as the OP, but in many parts of CA, electricity is a ripoff.

See My Nissan Leaf Forum View topic - my opinion on electric car after 2300 miles on my leaf and My Nissan Leaf Forum View topic - my opinion on electric car after 2300 miles on my leaf, for example.

As I said in the 1st post:

PG&E rates are a rip-off, as are that of some other utilities in CA. The national average doesn't mean squat for many of us in CA. Try putting in your electricity usage into Understand Your Electric Charges w/the 95136 zip and no for CARE. Compare your bill to the estimator (which is too low since it leaves off some taxes and fees).

I'd be curious to see your usage and billed amount w/your utility vs. the above. (I lived in the Seattle area for ~9 years so I'm familiar w/Seattle City and Light being very cheap and PSE being pretty cheap.)

 

[ABVA]

It shouldn't be just cost per mile but also consider the regular Maintainence costs. I spend more than $1500 per year on my Lexus LX 570, just for regular Maintainence, and that does not include changing brake pads etc (it will be much higher if I had to get brake replacement). Compare that to $475 per year (if you prepay for 4 years) for Tesla (including brakes and wipers) and the savings just pile up.
Besides one just can not put a price on Driving the most funnest and safest car ever, PRICELESS.

 

[jerry33]

I'm not in the same part of CA as the OP, but in many parts of CA, electricity is a ripoff.

Deregulation sure works well.

 

[jamieb]

jcaspar and I live in Sacramento, where the utility is the Sacramento Municipal Utility District (SMUD). They have a number of EV rates; the lowest is 0.06/kwh but that requires the charging circuit to be on a separate time-of-use meter, with significant penalties if you charge during peak hours. I just had my circuit put in (with two NEMA outlets on either side of the garage, anticipating a 2nd EV in the next year or two for my wife) this week. Jcaspar (we work together) doesn't have the separate meter so isn't getting the lowest rate. The electrician I hired to do the install said that the separate rate of use meter pays for itself quickly because the Model S usually kicks you up into the higher tier. BTW, his business has turned almost exclusively to EV home & business retrofits - his office told me yesterday me they have 50 installs going on right now - end of year push, but adoption is accelerating.

I get on the train in 90 minutes to go down to Fremont to pick up my new car (!!).

In a month, jcaspar and I can compare what our new cars did to our utility rates and report back. Will probably have a bigger impact in the very hot summer here than in the winter where electricity use is much lower.

 

[Musterion]

Does this mean I'm not really saving any money by driving electric?

No, it means you're on the wrong electric plan (actually the worst choice for your usage).

You need to switch to a time-of-use rate schedule. SCE offers this: https://www.sce.com/NR/sc3/tm2/pdf/CE324.pdf - $0.07 per kWh for night charging (midnight-6am) and daytime rates peak at $0.24 per kWh.

Absolutely, run the numbers and choose the plan that minimizes your costs. For me in N. Cal it was a special TOU EV rate (which also had choices for separate or combined meter which you need to compare based on your other usage). For others with solar it could be a different TOU plan with higher cost during peak. Here is my schedule for deciding when to charge. Helped save on all household usage too based on what I could shift to night hours. PGE EV Rate Timing Chart by Musterion. The one @mai quotes for SCE is actually better than ours.