Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Australian geologist Ian Plimer addressing the UK Govt. A lengthy but entertaining discourse on climate change.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/iEPW_P7GVB8


LOL; I love the 'argument' that climate has changed before fossil fuels => fossil fuels don't cause climate change. By that logic smoking doesn't cause lung cancer since people that don't smoke sometimes also get lunger cancer #thankyouforsmoking Most things have multiple causes.....

Which fact do you think is untrue? 1) CO2 levels have risen ~40% since humanities fossil fuel addiction started 2) The burning of Fossil Fuels has emitted twice as much CO2 as would be required for that rise 3) Doubling CO2 will cause a rise in temperature of >3C. The radiative properties of CO2 have been known and tested for >100 years... How can all 3 be true but Global Warming false?
 
Oil and coal workers... your services are no longer required... here's a stipend... go live your life as you see fit.

It's not just oil and coal workers. In the next couple of decades, we're going to be faced with either a mass adult re-education campaign (which has nearly zero chance of success) or a guaranteed basic income. In the US, the tax rates are going to have to become even more progressive in order to satisfy a stable society. I'm hopeful we can all see the future clearly enough to realize we're going to have to rethink the way economies work.
 
Australian geologist Ian Plimer addressing the UK Govt. A lengthy but entertaining discourse on climate change.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/iEPW_P7GVB8

























Ian R. Plimer (born February 12, 1946), a mining geologist, mining company director and anthropogenic global warming denier with no evident expertise in climate science, has written the "denier's bible", a book called Heaven and Earth, which makes mutually-inconsistent claims[SUP][2][/SUP] and was panned as being riddled with errors. In 2011 he wrote the "anti-warmist manual" How to Get Expelled From School: A guide to climate change for pupils, parents and punters, which reviewers found to be full of scientific errors, containing flawed and undocumented diagrams, and sloppily edited.[SUP][3][/SUP][SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][5][/SUP]


<snip>

Anti-science affiliations - IPA, NRSP, GWPF

Plimer is listed as an associate of the Institute of Public Affairs,[SUP][7][/SUP][SUP][8][/SUP] a conservative think tank with close ties to the Liberal Party of Australia.[SUP][9][/SUP] In 2007, Plimer was listed as an "allied expert" for the Natural Resources Stewardship Project, a Canadian anti-Kyoto Protocol advocacy group.[SUP][10][/SUP] In November 2009, Plimer was named as a member of the academic advisory council for Nigel Lawson's global warming skeptic group, the Global Warming Policy Foundation.[SUP][11][/SUP]

Conflicts of interest

Plimer is a director of seven mining companies: Ivanhoe Australia, a subsidiary of Bob Friedland's Ivanhoe Mines,[SUP][6][/SUP][SUP][12][/SUP] CBH Resources,[SUP][12][/SUP] Kefi Minerals,[SUP][13][/SUP][SUP][14][/SUP] Australia-based coal gas company, Ormil Energy,[SUP][15][/SUP] and Gina Rinehart's Hope Downs iron ore mine.[SUP][16][/SUP] He is also a director of Rinehart's Roy Hill Holdings and Queensland Coal Investments.

<snip>

In 2012, Plimer was appointed to the boards of Roy Hill Holdings, Queensland Coal Investments and the new Hope Downs iron ore mine by Australia's richest woman, Gina Rinehart. Rinehart, like Plimer an AGW denier, is openly contemptuous of any attempts to constrain greenhouse gas emissions.[SUP][25][/SUP]

<snip>


Makeup of Sun

In his review of Heaven and Earth for The Australian, astronomer Michael Ashley[1] wrote:[SUP][47][/SUP]

"Plimer probably didn't expect an astronomer to review his book. I couldn't help noticing on page120 an almost word-for-word reproduction of the abstract from a well-known loony paper...[that] argues that the sun isn't composed of 98 per cent hydrogen and helium, as astronomers have confirmed through a century of observation and theory, but is instead similar in composition to a meteorite."
"It is hard to understate the depth of scientific ignorance that the inclusion of this information demonstrates. It is comparable to a biologist claiming that plants obtain energy from magnetism rather than photosynthesis."

<snip>
Full article at:
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Ian_Plimer
 
Elon stated that a large grid of cells could store all that energy from the wind and the solar ?!?!

Do you have evidence that there's some physical limitation to how much energy we can store? Lots of options out there... Lithium-Ion is just one of dozens... Remember... we've been living off of stored energy for more than a century aka (coal, oil & gas). We only need ~2 weeks worth of storage to make wind and solar work 24/7/365.
 
LFTR's may be a viable version of nuclear, but also may be entirely unnecessary in the face of falling solar and battery prices.

Right; LFTR 'might' make the waste issue go away (but that's not even one of the top 5 problems with nuclear) it doesn't do much to make nuclear cheaper. Most new plants are now $7/w. $5/w would be a struggle and there's still ~$0.02/kWh O&M on top of that. Meanwhile Solar and Wind will be <$1/w by 2020 with O&M that's basically a rounding error. Even in the unlikely event that we can't get the storage thing worked out... gas turbines to fill in the gaps will make a lot more sense than nuclear with a low capacity factor.
 
Fusion reactors !!!!! On the horizon. No bird kills and no blight / noise on the landscape ( Palm Springs eyesore)

30 years away for the last 30 years... pretty sure they'll be 30 years away for the next 30 years... they'll still have a hard time competing with solar since you've still got to find a way to convert that heat into electricity. Thermal plants are limited to ~50% efficiency by thermodynamics... so you also have to find a way to eliminate 1 unit of heat for every unit of electricity... also not free... also not a problem that exists for solar/wind.
 
You know what else was on the horizon for decades not too long ago? Electric vehicles. Not interested in waiting more decades for something that has no promise of working out?

??? We had electric cars that would get you from A-B 100 years ago... they may not have been as fast or practical but they were there and they worked. We don't even know how to sustain a fusion reaction let alone harvest the energy. Fusion is today where electric cars were 200 years ago; we can make a compass needle jump with electricity but we have no idea how to employ it to make a carriage move.

Even if we get earth based fusion to work there's no reason to believe it will be any better than Fusion at a distance (Solar) + storage.
 
Leo gave a nice speech on climate change during his acceptance of his award at the Oscars last night. Love it.

Code:
<div id="fb-root"></div><script>(function(d, s, id) {  var js, fjs = d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0];  if (d.getElementById(id)) return;  js = d.createElement(s); js.id = id;  js.src = "//connect.facebook.net/en_US/sdk.js#xfbml=1&version=v2.3";  fjs.parentNode.insertBefore(js, fjs);}(document, 'script', 'facebook-jssdk'));</script><div class="fb-video" data-allowfullscreen="1" data-href="/climatecouncil/videos/vb.345960425540557/761722887297640/?type=3"><div class="fb-xfbml-parse-ignore"><blockquote cite="https://www.facebook.com/climatecouncil/videos/761722887297640/"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/climatecouncil/videos/761722887297640/">Leo calls for climate action during Oscars acceptance speech</a><p>That time Leo won an #Oscar and talked about the need for urgent action on climate change… Yep, that just happened. Legend.</p>Posted by <a href="https://www.facebook.com/climatecouncil/">The Climate Council</a> on Sunday, February 28, 2016</blockquote></div></div>
 
This is getting scary:


February 2016's shocking global warming temperature record.


image.png
 
I fully believe we are abnormally warming and that man's release of CO2 is obviously the primary cause. That being said, I'm not buying the idea that we're able to reliably compute a global average temp or that we can draw any "shocking" conclusions based on them. These measurements weren't taken in nearly the same manner even a couple decades ago.

CO2 concentrations relative to ice samples for the last 200k years is enough to scare me.
 
I fully believe we are abnormally warming and that man's release of CO2 is obviously the primary cause. That being said, I'm not buying the idea that we're able to reliably compute a global average temp or that we can draw any "shocking" conclusions based on them. These measurements weren't taken in nearly the same manner even a couple decades ago.

CO2 concentrations relative to ice samples for the last 200k years is enough to scare me.

I'm glad you think that and agree on the ice samples, but I also think the models we have are helping our understanding of what's going on. The five part article on Exxon talks about how they were the first ones to help create our models we use today and how over time they are getting better and better at predicting the future.

Exxon's Own Research Confirmed Fossil Fuels' Role in Global Warming Decades Ago | InsideClimate News

Also, if you haven't seen this TED talk on climate models, I highly recommend it:

 
Last edited by a moderator: