Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion

[jimm01]

Transitioning to EVs is not enough. We need to reduce our energy consumption as well, particularly since 60 percent is still generated by burning fossils. Simple: vehicle mass not displaced = kWh not needed. People don't realize that if they can afford to 'fill up' a car that outweighs the usually single occupant 25-30 to one, that energy is way too cheap. Cheap energy = emissions = what kills the planet.

Buildings generate nearly 40% of annual global GHG emissions.​

Approximately two-thirds of the building area that exists today will still exist in 2050. Currently, building renovations affect only 0.5-1% of the building stock annually. A significant increase in the rate of existing building energy efficiency renovations and the generation and procurement of renewable energy is required to meet emissions reduction targets set by the Paris Agreement.

Why The Building Sector? – Architecture 2030

architecture2030.org

 

[voyager]

There are always excuses, but why waste energy by displacing yourself in an EV that weighs up to 40 times more (Cybertruck) than the usually single occupant?
Besides, EVs will be a household's and therefore a power grid's biggest energy consumer. And those grids are already strained. Balancing in and outgoing (surplus) electricity can only go so far. There's also a capacity problem.

 

[SageBrush]

There are always excuses, but why waste energy by displacing yourself in an EV that weighs up to 40 times more (Cybertruck) than the usually single occupant?
Besides, EVs will be a household's and therefore a power grid's biggest energy consumer. And those grids are already strained. Balancing in and outgoing (surplus) electricity can only go so far. There's also a capacity problem.

This is all very locale dependent, but waste is not black and white. The most clean energy we might use inefficiently will be to store it in liquid form for later use or for aviation.

 

[winfield100]

There are always excuses, but why waste energy by displacing yourself in an EV that weighs up to 40 times more (Cybertruck) than the usually single occupant?
Besides, EVs will be a household's and therefore a power grid's biggest energy consumer. And those grids are already strained. Balancing in and outgoing (surplus) electricity can only go so far. There's also a capacity problem.

please remind me of the efficiency of an ICE vs a BEV

 

[jimm01]

please remind me of the efficiency of an ICE vs a BEV

Not forgetting the fact ICE vehicles release carbon captured many million years ago.

 

[MontyFloyd]

Not forgetting the fact ICE vehicles release carbon captured many million years ago.

Yes.

Millions of years of carbon captured being released at hundreds of tons a second.
Add to that hundreds (some a couple of thousand) of years of carbon captured in living plants today being released at hundreds of tons a second.

Any wonder? (actually, the wonder is those who do not believe)

 

[jimm01]

This is all very locale dependent, but waste is not black and white. The most clean energy we might use inefficiently will be to store it in liquid form for later use or for aviation.

According to fuel economy.gov

“EVs convert over 77% of the electrical energy from the grid to power at the wheels. Conventional gasoline vehicles only convert about 12%–30% of the energy stored in gasoline to power at the wheels.”

Also, the loss in today’s energy grid is 66%. Technology exists today to make it 50%. With smart grids and micro grids the loss would be much less.

 

[dhrivnak]

According to fuel economy.gov

“EVs convert over 77% of the electrical energy from the grid to power at the wheels. Conventional gasoline vehicles only convert about 12%–30% of the energy stored in gasoline to power at the wheels.”

Also, the loss in today’s energy grid is 66%. Technology exists today to make it 50%. With smart grids and micro grids the loss would be much less.

The vast majority of what you call is generation loss at the power plant. Once on the wires the loss is a more reasonable 7% loss.

 

[MontyFloyd]

According to fuel economy.gov

“EVs convert over 77% of the electrical energy from the grid to power at the wheels. Conventional gasoline vehicles only convert about 12%–30% of the energy stored in gasoline to power at the wheels.”

Also, the loss in today’s energy grid is 66%. Technology exists today to make it 50%. With smart grids and micro grids the loss would be much less.

If I may be so bold, the energy loss with solar direct to an EV will be simply the wire resistance.

 

[SageBrush]

Also, the loss in today’s energy grid is 66%. Technology exists today to make it 50%.

7% transmission loss of grid clean energy is ~ 0 grams CO2

Do not conflate losses of clean energy with losses from fossil use. Only the latter results in more climate change and pollution.

 

[nwdiver]

There are always excuses, but why waste energy by displacing yourself in an EV that weighs up to 40 times more (Cybertruck) than the usually single occupant?
Besides, EVs will be a household's and therefore a power grid's biggest energy consumer. And those grids are already strained. Balancing in and outgoing (surplus) electricity can only go so far. There's also a capacity problem.

So Math is an 'excuse' now? Interesting....

Anyway.... my point is that if you're using ~350kWh/mo at the best time (when solar or wind are being curtailed) that use is going to be ~irrelevant because numbers. If the energy you're using has no emissions and never would have existed if you didn't use it. Literally has zero impact. Then why does it matter? You're correct that using surplus 'can only go so far'. Look at the numbers. We're already wasting more energy than EVs use. Math.

An EV might be the largest load but it's also the most dynamic. I can wait 2 or 3 days for a curtailment event to charge my car then charge up as much as I need in ~3 hours. Can you not use any energy in your home for 2 days then use lights for 3 hours then turn everything off again for 2 more days?

There may be valid arguments about the effect of vehicle weight on road wear or the resources required to build it but energy use will be largely irrelevant if we come remotely close to achieving our goals of renewable energy production.

 

[mspohr]

There are always excuses, but why waste energy by displacing yourself in an EV that weighs up to 40 times more (Cybertruck) than the usually single occupant?
Besides, EVs will be a household's and therefore a power grid's biggest energy consumer. And those grids are already strained. Balancing in and outgoing (surplus) electricity can only go so far. There's also a capacity problem.

EVs are not and will not be a strain on the grid as shown by numerous studies. I have no problem"wasting" clean power in my Tesla which comes from my solar panels. My EVs are only a fraction of my all electric house use.
Change your mindset to get comfortable with a future of abundant cheap, clean energy

 

[nwdiver]

Change your mindset to get comfortable with a future of abundant cheap, clean energy

It's literally becoming a 'waste' product

 

[eevee-fan]

EVs are not and will not be a strain on the grid as shown by numerous studies. I have no problem"wasting" clean power in my Tesla which comes from my solar panels. My EVs are only a fraction of my all electric house use.
Change your mindset to get comfortable with a future of abundant cheap, clean energy

We need community wide V1G on L2 chargers - esp work place chargers. NV Energy in Las Vegas has a free charging station at their main office and they have a posting saying they are testing Demand Response on those chargers. This means the power output will vary to accommodate the grid situation. I saw it go from 7KW down to 4KW then back up. This is a great way to allow more renewables on the grid.

 

[mspohr]

We need community wide V1G on L2 chargers - esp free ones. NV Energy in Las Vegas has a free charging station at their main office and they have a posting saying they are testing Demand Response on those chargers. This means the power output will vary to accommodate the grid situation. I saw it go from 7KW down to 4KW then back up. This is a great way to allow more renewables on the grid.

Demand response and batteries will be crucial to a clean grid.
(Elon again is in the forefront and will dominate this sector with aggregated Powerwalls.)

 

[winfield100]

There are always excuses, but why waste energy by displacing yourself in an EV that weighs up to 40 times more (Cybertruck) than the usually single occupant?
Besides, EVs will be a household's and therefore a power grid's biggest energy consumer. And those grids are already strained. Balancing in and outgoing (surplus) electricity can only go so far. There's also a capacity problem.

@voyager
i disagree a bit that the grid is already strained, but would suggest we are not using the output efficiently.
at many times there is an excess, as you have to use the electricity produced "right now" or store it for later or throw it away as waste

In the US at least, T&D (transmission and distribution) costs ~3-4 cents per kilowatt just to send from the power plant to the end user
there is also a generation cost and such.

You might read articles by Tony Seba or RethinkX

Energy Executive Summary — RethinkX

We are on the cusp of the fastest, deepest, most profound disruption of the energy sector in over a century. Executive Summary.

www.rethinkx.com

on energy & such.
The planet is rapidly going to SWB, (Solar, Wind & batteries) as the least expensive and ultimately 3-4cents/kilowatt hour total cost to end user

The goal is actually it seems to produce more, an excess which will strengthen the grid, end users, decentralize and such
(I personally manufacture at almost zero marginal cost in excess of 160- 170% of my electrical usage in a 100% electric residence, with an EV.)

 

[mspohr]

Elon Musk Says the Sun Can Power All of Civilization. Of Course He's Right.

It's a free fusion reactor in the sky. Now how do we catch it?

www.yahoo.com

 

[eevee-fan]

@voyager
i disagree a bit that the grid is already strained, but would suggest we are not using the output efficiently.
at many times there is an excess, as you have to use the electricity produced "right now" or store it for later or throw it away as waste

Definitely not strained most of the day. And even less with rooftop solar in your community. Grid strain is really just 6-8pm in the summer. Now this problem is easily solved with V2G where let's say your EV kicks in 6KW power into the grid during this stress period.

Perhaps we will see grid strain in the winter as people switch from gas to electric heat. Heatpump would help a lot in reducing grid strain. But again, peak heating demand is also based on the household schedule and not 24x7.

 

[mspohr]

Days of wine and olives: how the old farming ways are paying off in Spain

In 2016, with financial support from the EU’s Life programme, 20 olive farms in the region were selected to adopt a regenerative agriculture model, allowing grass and wild flowers to flourish between the trees. Various local species were planted, nest boxes installed, and ponds created to encourage insect and bird life.

What we are doing is returning to more traditional ways,” says Paco Montabes, who farms 650 hectares (1,600 acres) of picual olives in Jaén’s Sierra Mágina. “Not ploughing between the trees makes for better water retention, less erosion and run-offs after heavy rain. The vegetal covering makes the ground sponge-like and absorbs the rain.”

The producer has reduced its carbon footprint by 34% a bottle and is aiming for 60%, mostly through energy-efficiency measures introduced during the winemaking process. “Our objective is to stop ploughing,” he says. “When you plough you bring organic material to the surface and then it oxidises, so everything you had stored goes into the atmosphere. What we try to do is imitate nature as much as possible, which means we have to give life back to the soil.”

 

[David_Cary]

In my second home temperate/humid climate co-op where NG is not common, they peak out at 6am on the rare 20 degree low. It is humid enough that heat pumps dominate since everyone needs a/c.

When NG goes away, the peak is 6am cold winter morning - when people wake up and turn up the heat (ok some education would help- but really most people want the house to warm up when they wake up), take showers and run some toasters....

In my primary home - heat is still the number one load - over EVs. This will vary but our house is very tight and so most houses will need more heat.

When NG goes away, winter is a real stress on the grid. That is the long term problem and solar gets challenged. Batteries get challenged. We need some serious transmission from far away wind.

Sorry to be negative, but I suspect we will use NG peaker plants in 2050 at the way things are going. Just about the time we can't find gas anymore so ICE will finally be only for specialty vehicles.