mknox
Well-Known Member
...but I don't believe it has any sort of UL or other rating. (I looked on mine, but the label is worn off from use). Canadian UMCs are currently being replaced with de-rated versions for this exact reason.
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Concerns about Tesla to non-Tesla charging adapters
- Thread starter TEG
- Start date
...but I don't believe it has any sort of UL or other rating. (I looked on mine, but the label is worn off from use). Canadian UMCs are currently being replaced with de-rated versions for this exact reason.
1. Why are people pilling on Noel Ingle? You don't know what kind of background he comes from.
2. Why are people pilling on Noel Ingle? Arguing on a message board will not convince him that what he's doing is wrong (I don't think it's wrong, but that's the perspective by many here)
3. I see both sides of the argument.
Egotistically I'd hate to sit at a supercharger and wait for a leaf to charge, one thing that sold me on the Tesla was the exclusive charging network.
At the same time, if it means that more cars will be EV's and Tesla's name gets out there and they stay in business longer, than it will be for the greater good.
2. Why are people pilling on Noel Ingle? Arguing on a message board will not convince him that what he's doing is wrong (I don't think it's wrong, but that's the perspective by many here)
3. I see both sides of the argument.
Egotistically I'd hate to sit at a supercharger and wait for a leaf to charge, one thing that sold me on the Tesla was the exclusive charging network.
At the same time, if it means that more cars will be EV's and Tesla's name gets out there and they stay in business longer, than it will be for the greater good.
mknox
Well-Known Member
gavine
Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast
Even with an adapter, a Leaf couldn't charge at a supercharger. No handshake would happen, and even if it did, the Leaf battery couldn't handle that much power.
Edit: looks like MKnox beat me to it.
When somebody starts spewing "unauthorized", I generally read this to mean that the poster really doesn't have any rational argument, so some vague and unqualified term like "unauthorized" is used.
If the poster is spinning these out on a lathe to the proper specs and tolerances, there is not issue. If not, then of course there is an issue. Playing with 80 amps is not child's play, and certainly damage can be done to the host HPWC / UMC.
It's also great that both an established company and an upstart are both considering this adapter. Choices for us!
I would be interested in purchasing one of these.
I no longer own the Chevy Volt or any other J1772 equipped EV, but that could change at any time and the issue quoted a few posts back about my condo board not willing to install proprietary chargers that can only be used by one type of vehicle still stands.
Nice Work Noel!
mknox
Well-Known Member
Interesting thought. The currently implemented UMC has no safety inspection or certification. And I checked my Tesla J1772 adapter again... label is scratched from use, but no certification stamp that I can see. I would expect that any permanently installed and wired EVSE would indeed have to be certified, but what you plug in to it (or a 120 volt outlet for that matter) is another matter. All this aside, I think a J1772 station makes a lot more sense for public use in a condo, or anywhere else for that matter.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I would venture to guess Tesla did not spin the adapter pins from a lathe. A J1772 socket is pretty standard and available from many suppliers.
As for claim that Chargepoint/Blink might think the Tesla adapter is "unauthorized", even putting aside for the moment that those companies are offering their chargers for *all* EVs, that seems to be completely false.
When Chargepoint did charging station demonstrations at their headquarters, they specifically had a Tesla on hand (likely a Roadster given the date in 2011):
"A charging demonstration of six EVs at three dual-outlet stations included a Chevrolet Volt, Nissan LEAF, Tesla, Zero Motorcycle, Green Vehicles’ Triac, and Zenn EV."
http://www.chargepoint.com/news/2011/0414/
They also did advertising pointing out how easy it was for a Model S to charge at their stations:
"Through the easy signup process, the 50,000th ChargePoint user joined Tuesday evening, and less than one hour later, plugged-in a Tesla Model S to a ChargePoint station at the County of Marin Civic Center in San Rafael."
http://www.chargepoint.com/news/2013/1115/bay-area-tesla-driver-becomes-50-000th-chargepoint-user/
Blink says explicitly that they support the adapter with their Level 2 stations:
"CarCharging’s Level II charging stations are compatible with EVs sold in the United States including the Tesla Model S, Nissan LEAF, Chevy Volt, Mitsubishi i-Miev, Toyota Prius Plug-In, Honda Fit EV, and Toyota Rav4 EV, as well as many others scheduled for release over the next few years"
http://www.blinknetwork.com/about-us.html
In contrast, Tesla has never suggested they wanted a non-Tesla to charge at a HPWC destination charger, but rather installed a separate J1772 EVSE when non-Tesla EVs are expected to charge at a location.
m6bigdog
Member
Why, really?
You will want to use some of Noel's imagination.
Imagine everything Noel has done is as perfect, as accomplished, as the Tesla engineers can manufacture with all the Tesla resources.
My imagination tells me this is unlikely.
Just imagine how difficult it is for Tesla to make a charge output connector and charge-port that works reliable with the HPWC and Supercharger.
I assume this takes little imagination since this forum has many accounts of their failure.
Now, Imagine he know not what he is doing, but has the mechanical engineering skills to print the connector housing, make the contacts on this lathe to fit the Tesla output connector and wire up the Tesla to J1772 adapter.
Imagine you arrive at a destination Hotel, selected because they have two Tesla supplied HPWC (supplying 80 amps) and you find a Tesla (or ICE'd stall)...and a Non-Tesla charging...all night... leaving you without a charge for the next day's road trip adventures.
Also, imagine this or another less well built but unauthorized adapter is a "HPWC Typhoid Mary" they see no problem with what they are doing as the adapter function fine while every HPWC output connector used is damaged just waiting for the next Tesla to arrive and attempt a charge, and what they get is damaged or dirty contacts on their charge-port, if nothing else setting the stage for an early charge-port contact failure.
Now, imagine you arrive at a Supercharger with 20% SOC, a long drive to your next destination and the dirty contacts on your charge-port can't handle the SC current, your charge-port fails and/or the SC current drops back to 60 amps!!
I can imagine and I see nothing positive from using unauthorized adapter; for the Tesla EV community.
Here is a video of my friend Chris charging his RAV4 EV on a Tesla HPWC at work. His only charging option is using the two Tesla HPWCs at his workplace. Plus, he gets his full 40A charge. He has been beta testing my adpater for about 4 months. His boss seems cool with sharing it with his 2 Model S.
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That's a silly argument. There have been plenty of account of Tesla's parking in the spot all night.
Nearly everything you posted is conjecture.
I can speculate too.
Imagine Noel looked up Tesla's patents, and used the exact materials they did as to get the thing to work. Imagine he actually knows what he's doing. Imagine if Leaf's start charging at HPWC, and then Nissan stealerships will be more friendly to letting Tesla's charge at the Chademo's. Imagine you open your mouth and blow into your charge port getting all the gunk out, or use a cotton swab (can't remember if that's recommended or not). Imagining is only half the battle.
The point here is to get them to agree to install a HPWC which can deliver as much as 80 amps but only costs $750 instead of a Clipper Creek CS-100 which costs $2200.. its an easier sell given the price differential. They would be more inclined to do so knowing there is an adapter available.
BTW the current tally of Model Ss in the garage in my building stands at 9 Model Ss and zero other EVs now that my Volt has been returned to the leasing co. My Model S is not currently configured to accept 80 amps at a time, but the UMC plugged into NEMA 14-50 is considered to "unpolished" for this garage.
Noel, can your adapter withstand 80 amps?
Now may be a good time to break out your joint and smoke it. Relax, buddy!
I'll gladly take his place. Please add me to your list of interested customers. This adapter would allow me to share my HPWC with other EV owners and I would love to be able to do that!
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You have quite the imagination...
m6bigdog
Member
What can I say: Fools rush in where wise men fear to tread.
The Boss is yet to be aware that the adapter violates the Tesla UL listing for the HPWC, NEC Article 625 for EVSE and therefore OSHA regulations for the workplace. Yep, the parking lot is included since it is controlled by the business!! So inform them of these conditions and see how they react. If you doubt this call the local OSHA office (phone number on the wall of the break room) for advice or the Local AHJ.
I guess we will see how long the adapter venture last.
From the peanut gallery:
I hope you have liability insurance for your product or have at least consulted a product attorney?
All though, it may be difficult to secure or enforce for an electrical product built with no UL listing and obvious NEC and CFR violations.
So with or without insurance you could loose everything you own with a single property damage or personal injury misshape/accident associated with your adapter product.
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"Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do."
Not really. Someone would have to sue first. And if sold under the name of an LLC or Corp, the partners/shareholders are shielded from personal liability.
Sign me up for two!
m6bigdog
Member
"Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do."
Not really. Someone would have to sue first. And if sold under the name of an LLC or Corp, the partners/shareholders are shielded from personal liability.
Sign me up for two!
That is funny,
How many LLC CEO's and corporate manager are in jail for negligence? all of them...
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
As much as tempers are flaring here, I should mention he does not have legal standing to sue you, given he is neither the patent holder (Tesla is), nor a user of the HPWC(s) at the location.
His warning does generally apply though, even the custom 14-50/14-30 adapters people have made for the UMCs are very much "use at your own risk". If anything were to happen, the liability is all on the person who made the adapter. I think it is fair to note that.
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