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Coronavirus
- Thread starter Wenche
- Start date
Now you are off on Vaccines. I guess you have nothing else to bring to the Mask discussion.
The WHO report of uncontrolled observational studies you cite only proves that people who don't wear lousy masks all the time in high exposure conditions during an epidemic can still get sick. There is nothing else there. If you take your blinders off you will see that. I have absolutely no doubt you would pick it apart for the exact same reasons I have if it seemed to show something other than what you imagine.
As I said before, the evidence you are demanding is unethical to obtain.
Bring actual real-world evidence that masks don't work, please. No more Bernoulli discussion that has no biology or real world factors.
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Roughly, but doesn’t have to be from immunity, could be isolation, barriers, prophylaxis etc.
I was only using that as a comparator.
There’s no evidence masks work. Not in theory, not in practice.
If they worked, this would be over.
Also if the vaccines worked like they said they would, this would be over.
Turns out you can’t trust Anyone these days.
You haven't presented any evidence that they don't work. That was what you came here to say.
There is evidence they do work, but you have hardened your heart against it.
Your conclusion, that "if they worked this [covid] would be over," is bald-faced ridiculous, because the vast majority don't use them. Where does that idea come from?
"Seat belts don't work because when people don't wear them, they get injured." -- @juk
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Yeah the immunity threshold changes over time due to all sorts of factors (behavioral changes, variants, waning immunity).
The real word efficacy for vaccines were actually close to the trial results until the Delta variant and then they really lost effectiveness against symptomatic infection with Omicron. You probably noticed that there wasn't a massive outbreak in Australia until Omicron?
There was zero chance of eliminating the virus through NPIs.
Here's what Fauci said in November 2020. It's bizarre to me that he's become such a bogeyman.
“The public doesn’t understand all about vaccines … including that this disease may, even with vaccines, become endemic.”
“I doubt we are going to eradicate this. I think we need to plan that this is something we may need to maintain control over chronically. It may be something that becomes endemic, that we have to just be careful about,”
Dr. Fauci says ‘help is on the way’ with vaccines, but doubts Covid can ever be eradicated
Dr. Anthony Fauci dismissed the idea that people may become complacent following a breakthrough in the race to deliver a safe and effective vaccine for Covid.
www.cnbc.com
Another way to look at the data is that Australia beat the virus out of the community multiples times (and we did) until they mandated vaccines and got steamrolled.Yeah the immunity threshold changes over time due to all sorts of factors (behavioral changes, variants, waning immunity).
The real word efficacy for vaccines were actually close to the trial results until the Delta variant and then they really lost effectiveness against symptomatic infection with Omicron. You probably noticed that there wasn't a massive outbreak in Australia until Omicron?
There was zero chance of eliminating the virus through NPIs.
Here's what Fauci said in November 2020. It's bizarre to me that he's become such a bogeyman.
“The public doesn’t understand all about vaccines … including that this disease may, even with vaccines, become endemic.”
“I doubt we are going to eradicate this. I think we need to plan that this is something we may need to maintain control over chronically. It may be something that becomes endemic, that we have to just be careful about,”
Dr. Fauci says ‘help is on the way’ with vaccines, but doubts Covid can ever be eradicated
Dr. Anthony Fauci dismissed the idea that people may become complacent following a breakthrough in the race to deliver a safe and effective vaccine for Covid.
PACEMD
Active Member
Here we have the Red Queen Plight! But circular.....
"Well, in our country," said Alice, still panting a little, "you'd generally get to somewhere else—if you run very fast for a long time, as we've been doing."
"A slow sort of country!" said the Queen. "Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!" [1]
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Vaccine causes spike shedding. It infected unvaccinated people with the Delta variant.
Just another way of looking at the data.
U.S. Deaths Fell in 2022, But Not to Pre-COVID Levels
This year’s count is likely to end up at least 13% higher than what it was in 2019.
This year’s count is likely to end up at least 13% higher than what it was in 2019.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
People wearing rags on their chin doesn't mean masks don't work. You're delusional if you think the general public has been consistently and properly wearing N95 masks.
Overall, direct evidence of the efficacy of mask use is supportive, but inconclusive. Since there are no RCTs, only one observational trial, and unclear evidence from other respiratory illnesses, we will need to look at a wider body of evidence.”
Lols, don’t try that on a forum:
“The lack of direct causal identifiability requires a more integrative systems view of efficacy. We need to consider first principles—transmission properties of the disease, controlled biophysical characterizations—alongside observational data, partially informative RCTs (primarily with respect to PPE), natural experiments (26), and policy implementation considerations—a discursive synthesis of interdisciplinary lines of evidence which are disparate by necessity (9, 27).”
And they still can’t get it to work in hong Kong :
“A study of COVID-19 incidence in Hong Kong noted that face mask compliance was very high, at 95.7 to 97.2% across regions studied, and that COVID-19 clusters in recreational ‘mask-off’ settings were significantly more common than in workplace “mask-on” settings (35).”
So with no real world evidence we get to modelling, the last refuge of the lack of evidence.
What a joke.
The joke is, you demand RCT level evidence when a study doesn't support your conclusions but accept uncontrolled surveys as evidence when you imagine they support you.
"COVID-19 clusters in recreational ‘mask-off’ settings were significantly more common than in workplace “mask-on” settings." That means masks work. Did you understand that when you quoted it?
From the article I linked, and to reiterate what I have said now several times:
PACEMD
Active Member
If you fish exclusively for evidence in a weak attempt to back up your predetermined ideas, and reject the rest of reality..........you may be a redneck.........
Doggydogworld
Active Member
Steamrolled? Aussie deaths per million is 1/5th of the US level.
Honest question, if you need surgery will you tell the surgeons and nurses to avoid masking? Communication and focus would improve, presumably leading to a better outcome.
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