Coronavirus

[AlanSubie4Life]

For ex, how many car accident deaths are you ok with?

100 deaths per day seems ok. At least it is a risk that can be mitigated through specific personal decisions. I know a company that is trying to bring that number down because it is still too damn high, though. But last I checked car accidents were not contagious.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Yeah, we should all definitely buy into a sensationalized Buzzfeed article by a hack "journalist". Definitely. I'm sure SHE HAS NO AGENDA and is COMPLETELY UNBIASED.

*face palm*

All of the points in this article were already made in this thread weeks ago. Do you have some argument for why the study is actually valid?

 

[dfwatt]

Your self-righteousness and claim of any version here of the moral High Ground is just astonishing. This while you are supporting (or at least not critiquing) a grotesquely incompetent bungled and disorganized Federal effort. 15 other countries with far less in the way of resources than the United States have basically beat in the coronavirus with competent epidemiologically informed Public Health practice. We on the other hand have rolled out machismo denial on steroids, botched the PCR testing so that we cannot do the testing at scale, and have not absorbed that if you do not contain this efffectively (and this means testing, contact tracing, and isolation,) you are left with much more Draconian and punitive and economically costly shut down. And when that ends as it must, you then must be able to do what you could not do in the beginning which again is testing at scale, contact tracing and isolation of cases to prevent transmission chains from going exponential once again. Those are the biological facts on the ground. All your ranting does not change them.

Your righteousness and victimization are badly misplaced and misinformed. Here are the facts of what other countries have done with less resources, less technology, and less money. Wake up and stop whining. You're missing the forest (big picture seen below) for the obsessive focus on the trees.

View attachment 542154

@MXLRplus

PS and while you're noticing how all these countries didn't just flatten the curve they squashed it, please take a look at Iceland and Luxembourg. These countries had serious outbreaks with high case incidence (cases/ mil population) even relative to the whole of the United States if not relative to New York. This proves that even when you've got a rampant outbreak raging that competent epidemiology and competent Administration can get on top of this thing.

 

[shinytop]

S

What Sweden has done is proved you wrong. Now man up and admit it.
With no lockdown, the USA would likely be about where it is now. Not much difference. In the end, we will have caused trillions in economic harm and great human suffering caused by the lockdown itself, with little gained.

Are you seriously saying the social distancing implemented in New York has made little difference? And, of course, many other locations where violations have resulted in break outs of the virus. You would do all of us a service if the next time you "face palm" you would be holding a brick.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

What it doesn't allow is one party to shut down commerce to suit their political ambitions and rig elections.

100% agree. I don’t understand why Trump continues to insist on this strategy, when everyone else just wants to get the economy functioning again.

 

[dqd88]

Are you seriously saying the social distancing implemented in New York has made little difference? And, of course, many other locations where violations have resulted in break outs of the virus. You would do all of us a service if the next time you "face palm" you would be holding a brick.

The social distancing is good. But closing public spaces and forcing everyone indoors (subway and buses included)... yeah that made a difference alright, it caused massive spread of the virus!

 

[jerry33]

100% agree. I don’t understand why Trump continues to insist on this strategy, when everyone else just wants to get the economy functioning again.

If ordinary people are unsure of their financial situation, no one will be contributing to Trump's opponents. You have to understand a sociopath to understand his policies.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

But closing public spaces and forcing everyone indoors...

This is not exactly what happened. I have been mountain biking and road biking in parks and other places since early March.

I do agree they could have been less aggressive with some measures, but keep in mind closures occurred AFTER the social distancing rules went into effect, and then people demonstrated they were going to congregate in parks and generally not understand the order. Now people are better educated and hopefully things can be opened back up. (Unfortunately the “freedom” crowd appears to be trying to kill people.)

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

If ordinary people are unsure of their financial situation, no one will be contributing to Trump's opponents. You have to understand a sociopath to understand his policies.

Ah, hadn’t thought of that 3-D chess strategy.

 

[dfwatt]

Yeah ... they should have done that upfront.

Are the conservative quack shows that featured them so prominently the first time around still asking for interviews ?
Did they report the follow-up findings ?
Has it changed their opinions ?

Good questions for sure and I honestly don't know at least about some of that anyway. They did tone down their conclusions but probably not enough in view of how unreliable the antibody test was. I don't think their preprint has been peer-reviewed yet . Does anybody else know?

 

[dfwatt]

The Constitution does allow you to pay 100% tuition for 10% of the product (assuming hands-on class). Taxes and fees are unlimited at the state level. As we know. Nor are you guaranteed that a "Road Tax" won't be used to fund politician's condo developments.

What it doesn't allow is one party to shut down commerce to suit their political ambitions and rig elections.

Rigging elections? You mean the endless gerrymandering, voter suppression, arbitrary removal of people of color off voting rolls, phony charges of voter fraud to justify all the above, and then removal of polling places in Democratic districts and regions to suppress voting physically, combined with social media misinformation campaigns run out of Russian troll Farms encouraging people to vote online so that they end up not voting?. And then making it impossible for people who are concerned about the safety of polling places to vote by mail. And then the Republican Senate failing to protect polling places, insist on paper ballots as backup against hacked polling machines, or update security to prevent intrusion into voting systems? Oh yes and let's not forget automatic voter registration!

All those things that our current Administration has clearly indicated they either don't care about or don't want because it might result in more people voting against the current Administration?

Oh, you mean that kind of rigged election? Yeah, I'm sure you're opposed to all of those!

 

[dqd88]

I agree. I live in NYC. Have no idea how we are supposed to move forward with the subway. Really stumped. Even assuming UVC lights all over the system during the overnight hours, what does that do for the one contagious person in a packed train the next day?

I'm curious if you (or people you know) have thought about leaving NYC? If so, where would you move to?

 

[dqd88]

100 deaths per day seems ok. At least it is a risk that can be mitigated through specific personal decisions. I know a company that is trying to bring that number down because it is still too damn high, though. But last I checked car accidents were not contagious.

That's fair.
I would probably look at it like this - as long as there is no material increase in annual net deaths then we should not worry too much about it.

 

[dqd88]

That's fair.
I would probably look at it like this - as long as there is no material increase in annual net deaths then we should not worry too much about it.

After studying the Princess cruise situation and viewing personal accounts of people who contracted the disease and what they went through... that was all I needed to know that this isn't something worthy of a shutdown.
Yeah, it was a painful experience for those folks, as many other diseases are for people across the globe; it's unfortunate; but it doesn't warrant trillions of cost and human suffering caused by stay at home and school closings.

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

It’s quite funny (sad) to see the denial from the Spanish Flu experience to be repeated a century later.
“What we learn from history is we don’t learn from history”

(The USA & England could take a leaf out of Australia & New Zealand’s book)

 

[SOULPEDL]

You’ll have to elaborate. I’m listening.

Are you? If so...

It's in the signature and contract when you agree to become a part of that medical study. You cannot disclose experimental outcomes, only they can (pick and choose). Done all the time my friend, and was the basis for my sister's thesis for obtaining a Masters then PhD up in Canada (where the media isn't so bought out). It's a monopoly with import restrictions all over the place. We only get a glimpse of it when you hear about lung cancer or opioids. Ironically, I had to find a reference out of the UK (that probably wouldn't still be in business in the US). How to fool the public with a clinical trial that can’t fail | Spectator Life

As a result, the probability is quite high that we will see a vaccine come to market (amazingly fast) with any potential negative results sealed up tight, especially so in this political climate. Trump is afterall continuing to fire more watchdogs that might investigate wrongdoing (as in just this week).

So if a company does create such a cure ($$$), what we will not hear publicly, for years, are the side effects. And for most, that might be good enough, unless of course we end up with something useless like some of the test kits out there.

But I just happened to believe in one more problem than most, and that's that we're messing with the very evolution process that keeps us alive and adapting in parallel with nature. And nature is changing extremely fast thanks in part to humans, but also nature itself. Variations in our DNA by cosmic rays to some randomly created virus is a key part of balance.

 

[Intl Professor]

I would be fine with your comment if you just came out and said that you consider it an acceptable cost for at least two million of the US population, who would be mostly older and with existing co morbidities, to die so that the rest of us can get on with the challenges we face on this Earth.

If you feel that is an overestimation of the dead from allowing the COVID to burn through the population at a fast clip, then please state the number that you believe it would be. We will not consider the pediatric population for now, although IMO, there have been alarming developments for that demographic.

Just state that so at least we move on with the conversation and dispense with the flag waving.

Of course I agree it is worth the cost. And more to target all vulnerable groups first and universal asap.

 

[AZRI11]

You never had to intubate a COVID19 patient I’m guessing. Are you suggesting we just ignore the problem?

Strange virus. In my home country (Portugal) all babies are vaccinated

After studying the Princess cruise situation and viewing personal accounts of people who contracted the disease and what they went through... that was all I needed to know that this isn't something worthy of a shutdown.
Yeah, it was a painful experience for those folks, as many other diseases are for people across the globe; it's unfortunate; but it doesn't warrant trillions of cost and human suffering caused by stay at home and school closings.

Many millions more will fall into extreme poverty worldwide. When they do a retrospective study of this pandemic they'll be more deaths due to economic shutdowns than being infected with covid-19

 

[dfwatt]

Are you? If so...

But I just happened to believe in one more problem than most, and that's that we're messing with the very evolution process that keeps us alive and adapting in parallel with nature. And nature is changing extremely fast thanks in part to humans, but also nature itself. Variations in our DNA by cosmic rays to some randomly created virus is a key part of balance.

What exactly are you saying? Are you saying that we are deteriorating our genetic stock by not allowing the COVID-19 pandemic to run its course without any effort at mitigation or treatment?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Are you? If so...

It's in the signature and contract when you agree to become a part of that medical study. You cannot disclose experimental outcomes, only they can (pick and choose). Done all the time my friend, and was the basis for my sister's thesis for obtaining a Masters then PhD up in Canada (where the media isn't so bought out). It's a monopoly with import restrictions all over the place. We only get a glimpse of it when you hear about lung cancer or opioids. Ironically, I had to find a reference out of the UK (that probably wouldn't still be in business in the US). How to fool the public with a clinical trial that can’t fail | Spectator Life

As a result, the probability is quite high that we will see a vaccine come to market (amazingly fast) with any potential negative results sealed up tight, especially so in this political climate. Trump is afterall continuing to fire more watchdogs that might investigate wrongdoing (as in just this week).

So if a company does create such a cure ($$$), what we will not hear publicly, for years, are the side effects. And for most, that might be good enough, unless of course we end up with something useless like some of the test kits out there.

But I just happened to believe in one more problem than most, and that's that we're messing with the very evolution process that keeps us alive and adapting in parallel with nature. And nature is changing extremely fast thanks in part to humans, but also nature itself. Variations in our DNA by cosmic rays to some randomly created virus is a key part of balance.

But you were saying something in response to my post about testing. Pretty sure other countries have proved that testing works. Not sure what you are talking about, this is not a discussion about vaccines.