Coronavirus

[dqd88]

I encourage them to get their flu shot early, and emphasize to them how dangerous the flu can be (so to be careful)!

Yet half the people still do not get their flu shot. Probably even with a Corona vaccine we'd see about half not take it.

Aside- for me, I have not changed my lifestyle one bit. There's a decent chance I've been infected. Which, I mean, probably better to get infected sooner rather than later as we are as young as we'll ever be today (and hence at lowest risk) and the virus will only be more threatening as you age. So might as well get it over with. In the meantime try to optimize your health and immune system.

I'm very interested in getting an anti-body test. Does anyone know where/how I can get one in CA?

 

[KenC]

I really don't see the fuss. Death is a natural part of life. Everyone's elderly parent will die soon. It's just a fact.
They will die of something. What steps are you taking to ensure they don't die of flu induced pneumonia, or whatever... nothing. You've accepted that they will die of something.

Maybe one reason Western Europe has more cases is they have more elderly; they probably also have better testing so it gets reported more.

Seems rather blasé. Sure, everyone's going to die, someday, but for the elderly, that one, two or ten or twenty more years, will be the years they get to see their grandkids graduate or even their great grandkids graduate and get married, etc. My mom could still outlive me.

What steps am I taking so my 91yr old mom doesn't die of "flu induced pneumonia, or whatever"? She gets a flu shot, I tell her to eat slowly and be careful when swallowing, because aspirational pneumonia is a killer if she gets sick. She got hemangiopericytoma 20+ yrs ago, 5% survival, and had multiple brain surgeries and multiple soft-tissue sarcomas over the years, and yes, I've taken care of her the last 13yrs.

I know she'll die someday, but she's not ready to go, so I'll take care of her as long as she wants. She deserves that.

As for Western Europe and age, it should be possible to look at mortality stats and compare comparable age groups. If the mortality rates were small differences, age demographics probably explains alot, but when the mortality rates are an order of magnitude different, something else might be making a difference beyond just age and the prevalence and quality of testing. The differences are just too large. Just look at the old East and West Germany. There are statistically significant differences between the two. Can we explain it?

 

[Daniel in SD]

You have to watch the BBC and other international news outlets. Extreme poverty from shutdowns will erase 30 years of efforts to reduce said poverty. CNN and MSNBC, Fox are garbage as are most American newspapers. World needs to, and will open their economies. Hospitals will have to suffer this burden, but as long as they aren't overwhelmed were going forward with our livelihoods. All choices on the table are bad, chose the one that does the less damage.

China, the country that has done the most to lift people out of poverty over the last 30 years, is choosing a strategy of suppression (Funny we don't see Elon on Twitter claiming that they're going to undo 30 years of progress). I suppose every country needs to evaluate their options, I'm most concerned about my own country.

 

[Norbert]

In the US, we spend close to 20% of the GDP on health care. Still, the life expectancy (79) is lower than in many european countries (often 82-83). I think that's really bad. It see it as a sign of mismanagement and indifference. The COVID-19 discussion and response appear to reflect that.

 

[AZRI11]

China, the country that has done the most to lift people out of poverty over the last 30 years, is choosing a strategy of suppression (Funny we don't see Elon on Twitter claiming that they're going to undo 30 years of progress). I suppose every country needs to evaluate their options, I'm most concerned about my own country.

Then saving human lives don't matter to you. I found a place all Californians can move to

 

[PACEMD]

I really don't see the fuss. Death is a natural part of life. It's just a fact.
They will die of something.

I know, right? Why all the fuss? I had a 4-year-old patient in emergency with appendicitis last week and I told the parents just to take her on home. She has to die of something. Appendicitis is just as good a death as any.

 

[dqd88]

Seems rather blasé. Sure, everyone's going to die, someday, but for the elderly, that one, two or ten or twenty more years, will be the years they get to see their grandkids graduate or even their great grandkids graduate and get married, etc. My mom could still outlive me.

What steps am I taking so my 91yr old mom doesn't die of "flu induced pneumonia, or whatever"? She gets a flu shot, I tell her to eat slowly and be careful when swallowing, because aspirational pneumonia is a killer if she gets sick. She got hemangiopericytoma 20+ yrs ago, 5% survival, and had multiple brain surgeries and multiple soft-tissue sarcomas over the years, and yes, I've taken care of her the last 13yrs.

I know she'll die someday, but she's not ready to go, so I'll take care of her as long as she wants. She deserves that.

As for Western Europe and age, it should be possible to look at mortality stats and compare comparable age groups. If the mortality rates were small differences, age demographics probably explains alot, but when the mortality rates are an order of magnitude different, something else might be making a difference beyond just age and the prevalence and quality of testing. The differences are just too large. Just look at the old East and West Germany. There are statistically significant differences between the two. Can we explain it?

All I'm saying is that death is a thing. We're all going to die. I hope we all live very long lives. I hope your mom lives many more years. Our chances of dying of corona are very low. You have to 1) contract it, 2) get deathly ill from it. For the avg person the chances of that happening are so low that it's not worth switching up your life much.

You sound like a great son! Your mom is lucky. 91 is long! My grandma died at 92.

So does she see the grandkids now? Will she have to wait until a vaccine? What if one never comes or takes years?
I mean, isn't life about living? If I were a grandparent I'd rather hug/play with my grandkids and risk getting Corona. Quality of life matters imo.

 

[eevee-fan]

Fed shipment of Q-tip-style coronavirus swabs puzzles Washington state officials, latest wrinkle in supply woes

... size doesn't matter?

 

[Norbert]

The Richest Neighborhoods Emptied Out Most as Coronavirus Hit New York City

Roughly 5 percent of residents — or about 420,000 people — left the city between March 1 and May 1. In the city’s very wealthiest blocks, in neighborhoods like the Upper East Side, the West Village, SoHo and Brooklyn Heights, residential population decreased by 40 percent or more, while the rest of the city saw comparably modest changes.

So NYC currently has 8 million, not 8.4 million population? Should look into considering that for the next mortality and IFR calculations...

 

[Lindamon]

this is the ID card (real one is wallet size and laminated) that the trumpers should all carry:

View attachment 542081

wonder if any would put their 'belief systems' in writing?

the 'party of responsibility' should actually take responsibility and save the healthcare system for those that want it to work and not collapse. if you go around and defy better judgement, and then get yourself infected, you should not be covered by any 'socialist' healthcare system in the US.

Why stop there? We subsidize all kinds of poor behavior in healthcare. Heart disease kills the majority of Americans, if someone walks into a McDonalds, shouldn’t they sign this form too?

 

[Norbert]

Why stop there? We subsidize all kinds of poor behavior in healthcare. Heart disease kills the majority of Americans, if someone walks into a McDonalds, shouldn’t they sign this form too?

Well, they endanger mostly their own life. Even so, many drugs require prescriptions or are completely illegal. Driving does require signing legal forms, as well as a seat belt and/or a helmet, and is conditional. Smoking isn't allowed wherever you want, and drinking alcohol in a commercial place has a minimum age above adulthood.

 

[SageBrush]

I don't think their preprint has been peer-reviewed yet .

You know, that is as much a political question as anything else and this episode has shined a bright light on the dangers of preprint to an academic's stature. In the norm peer review process this type of egregious error would have been caught and not trotted out for worldwide ridicule.

As it is, I bet Stanford is going to take a very dim view of the circus, piss poor academics, and horrible optics that suggest professional compromise and lack of judgement. The authors on that preprint are staring at a career damaging event.

 

[SageBrush]

Why stop there? We subsidize all kinds of poor behavior in healthcare. Heart disease kills the majority of Americans, if someone walks into a McDonalds, shouldn’t they sign this form too?

Yes, although the relative risks differ by magnitudes.
In the case of tobacco by the way, taxes recoup a large fraction of the damages.

 

[renim]

I think you need a multi billion dollar system supported by the federal government, which eliminates the virus in your community ASAP (or at least drives it to extremely low levels). Unfortunately I think you probably have a couple more weeks of cool down before more aggressively opening up.

Seoul has a subway. There is hope.

Seoul is a spaced out city, yes they have high rise apartment, but they have a lot of empty space.

Being within North Korean artillery range meant that Seoul's designers spaced the city out widely. More empty space for shells to land harmlessly. Its a military mindset.

Seoul is not New York City. And is extraordinarily different to say Hong Kong

 

[HG Wells]

What steps are you taking to ensure they don't die of flu induced pneumonia, or whatever... nothing. .

Get vaccine at KaIser, wait three weeks, Go to CVS and get vaccinated again.

Edit. Spelling. Cant find my glasses.

 

[jerry33]

As for Western Europe and age, it should be possible to look at mortality stats and compare comparable age groups. If the mortality rates were small differences, age demographics probably explains alot, but when the mortality rates are an order of magnitude different, something else might be making a difference beyond just age and the prevalence and quality of testing. The differences are just too large. Just look at the old East and West Germany. There are statistically significant differences between the two. Can we explain it?

Here's a not-even-scientific WAG. My understanding is that East Germany had a much-closer-to-subsistence lifestyle before reunification (less processed foods, more outdoor activity such as gardening and yard work) so people were just healthier to start with.

 

[JRP3]

Why we didn't lockdown back then?

Are you incapable of understanding that the current lock down reduced the impact of the virus, and also reduced other causes of death? We didn't lock down back then because it wasn't going to be as severe an impact as Covid without a lock down.

 

[TEG]

Here's a not-even-scientific WAG. My understanding is that East Germany had a much-closer-to-subsistence lifestyle before reunification (less processed foods, more outdoor activity such as gardening and yard work) so people were just healthier to start with.

Umm, I might question that assumption about being healthier. Heavy smoking of unfiltered cigarettes, heavy drinking, outdated healthcare... Generalizing, they were looking forward to becoming part of a modern world instead of just making do under a "lowest common denominator" system. Personally I would assume that things like worker safety in industrial jobs, and industrial pollution were not good as the average worker didn't have much of a voice in the centralized decision making.
People used to make fun of the clunky eastern cars that still had 2-stroke engines that would fail western emissions tests, and lacked modern safety equipment.
Germany: Life Expectancy Has Risen in East Since Reunification, Study Says

Germany: East-west divide in life expectancy almost overcome: Regional economic development increasingly important for length of life

...The major east-west divide arose during the GDR period because the health system there lagged behind the system in the Federal Republic. ...

 

[Norbert]

US deaths on worldometers now above 90,000.

 

[KenC]

Here's a not-even-scientific WAG. My understanding is that East Germany had a much-closer-to-subsistence lifestyle before reunification (less processed foods, more outdoor activity such as gardening and yard work) so people were just healthier to start with.

Even if that were true, do you think that persists so long after reunification?