Curious about Battery Fire Risk

[MorrisonHiker]

Jay Leno is recovering from injuries he received due to a gasoline fire. One of his (many) gasoline cars burst into flames yesterday.

Jay Leno Seriously Burned From Gasoline Fire: ‘Need a Week or Two to Get Back on My Feet’

Jay Leno has suffered “serious burns” but is in stable condition following a gasoline fire, the former “The Tonight Show” host confirmed to Variety. Leno said in a statement…

variety.com

 

[Skryll]

Wow everybody here is very biased. Nobody wants to admit that putting out a battery has its own challenges vs a ICE vehicle.

Different conversation.
The OP asked if we are concerned and the answer is no, because EV are less likely to catch fire than gas cars, and even if it's less likely to hurt you because of the slower burn. Also you can ask Jay Leno about that maybe ? He has multiple of each and just got injured from a gasoline fire.

 

[jabloomf1230]

Different conversation.
The OP asked if we are concerned and the answer is no, because EV are less likely to catch fire than gas cars, and even if it's less likely to hurt you because of the slower burn. Also you can ask Jay Leno about that maybe ? He has multiple of each and just got injured from a gasoline fire.

Jay Leno Seriously Burned From Gasoline Fire: ‘Need a Week or Two to Get Back on My Feet’

Jay Leno has suffered “serious burns” but is in stable condition following a gasoline fire, the former “The Tonight Show” host confirmed to Variety. Leno said in a statement…

variety.com

 

[cybertrucker]

I come from driving Mercedes vehicles and they are some of the safest vehicles on the road. I mean if that is the case I am worried about purchasing and would rather just continue driving an internal combustion vehicle.

Did you know your Mercedes contains a large tank of highly flammable gasoline?

 

[nwdiver]

I come from driving Mercedes vehicles and they are some of the safest vehicles on the road.

Sure looks like an EV is the safer bet....

 

[lionzer26125]

I still believe you guys are underestimating the potential problem here. I feel like many of you are biased.

I think Teslas are amazing from all other perspectives in comparison to regular cars, but this is something that is definitely being slightly overlooked.

 

[lionzer26125]

Also want to point out that I am currently finalizing my Tesla purchase and will be picking up next week.

 

[jjrandorin]

I still believe you guys are underestimating the potential problem here. I feel like many of you are biased.

I think Teslas are amazing from all other perspectives in comparison to regular cars, but this is something that is definitely being slightly overlooked.

No, there is not something being overlooked as far as EVs go, but it certainly seems like you are completely sidestepping / not responding at all to the fact that I pointed out your mercedes, which you called "one of the safest cars" also has this issue (documented).

You simply pivoted to "battery fires are harder to put out", which is true, but has no bearing at all on your original statement of "I am worried for my family". Fire longer to put out = Asset issue (loss of vehicle). Whether the fire is quick or long to put out has no bearing on what happens to the occupants of said vehicle when its on fire. In both cases they have to get out, or burn.

With the data presented to you (multiple times in this thread) that Teslas (and other EVs) are safer in this regard than your mercedes, you seem to be ignoring that. It really comes across that you are the one that has the bias on this topic at least.

 

[Supcom]

Also want to point out that I am currently finalizing my Tesla purchase and will be picking up next week.

Be sure to pick up a fireproof suit while you're at it.

 

[cybertrucker]

I come from driving Mercedes vehicles and they are some of the safest vehicles on the road. I mean if that is the case I am worried about purchasing and would rather just continue driving an internal combustion vehicle.

Also want to point out that I am currently finalizing my Tesla purchase and will be picking up next week.

Why the change of heart? Did you suddenly realize your Mercedes had a volatile bomb onboard with all those gallons of gasoline behind the seat?

Will you do the right thing and post on the Mercedes board what a fire hazard they are? I mean, they are carrying around 20 gallons of highly flamible GASOLINE !

 

[240vPlug]

It sounds like the OP is just afraid of fire and fearful of any vehicle. Maybe they or a family member was injured or perished in a fire. We should try to be understanding that such an even may cause a person to become hyper vigilant.

With that said, there is a chance of fire anywhere your storing energy and especially when the mechanism of release is also in the same area. The data show that EV are much less prone to fire vs ICE vehicles and it makes sense. EV carry much less energy because they are so much more efficient. Your much safer in an EV than in an ICE.

 

[ucmndd]

I think there is a tangible difference here that is often glossed over:

The odds of a parked ICE spontaneously catching fire while parked in your garage are practically zero, because an ICE vehicle at rest has few if any internal catalysts that are going to ignite a sealed tank of fuel.

The same cannot be said for lithium batteries - either due to the chemical reality of the pack itself or the fact that you “refuel” your EV in the garage, creating other opportunities for combustion.

An EV fire appears to be overall far less likely than an ICE car. But generally speaking the scenarios in which EVs tend to combust can be far less predictable and more catastrophic.

It’s worth discussing and acknowledging. To be clear, I have two EVs parked in my garage charging as we speak, so I’m quite unconcerned about the risk we’re talking about here in absolute terms.

 

[240vPlug]

I think there is a tangible difference here that is often glossed over:

The odds of a parked ICE spontaneously catching fire while parked in your garage are practically zero, because an ICE vehicle at rest has few if any internal catalysts that are going to ignite a sealed tank of fuel.

The same cannot be said for lithium batteries - either due to the chemical reality of the pack itself or the fact that you “refuel” your EV in the garage, creating other opportunities for combustion.

An EV fire appears to be overall far less likely than an ICE car. But generally speaking the scenarios in which EVs tend to combust can be far less predictable and more catastrophic.

It’s worth discussing and acknowledging. To be clear, I have two EVs parked in my garage charging as we speak, so I’m quite unconcerned about the risk we’re talking about here in absolute terms.

I did a video about this actually. That is why people are so fearful of EV fires I think...because even though very rare they can happen with little warning. All EV should have a thermal alarm which activates to warn anyone who is nearby that there is a risk of thermal runaway. This would provide early warning that is typically (but not always) there with ICE fires.

I will say that ICE vehicles can also have electrical fires. While rare they can start while the ICE vehicle is parked also.

 

[Alan_F]

I think there is a tangible difference here that is often glossed over:

The odds of a parked ICE spontaneously catching fire while parked in your garage are practically zero, because an ICE vehicle at rest has few if any internal catalysts that are going to ignite a sealed tank of fuel.

How are you figuring those odds? I'm not saying you're wrong, but you've provided no evidence to prove you're right.

And not to pick on Hyundai/Kia, but:

> August 23, 2022 | Washington, DC

Hyundai Motor America and Kia America recommend that owners of select Model Year 2020-2022 Hyundai Palisade and Kia Telluride vehicles park their cars outside and away from homes and other structures until their vehicles have been repaired, due to new recalls for the risk of fire.

Additionally, a “stop sale” is being issued as of today’s filing, in accordance with federal regulations, for affected unsold vehicles at dealers and vehicle processing centers.

The recalls involve 245,030 Model Year 2020-2022 Hyundai Palisade vehicles (NHTSA ID: 22V-633) and 36,417 Model Year 2020-2022 Kia Telluride vehicles (NHTSA ID: 22V-626). An accessory tow hitch sold through dealerships may allow moisture into the harness module, causing a short circuit. In some cases, an electrical short can cause a vehicle fire while driving or while parked and turned off.

There are no confirmed fires, crashes or injuries related to this condition in the United States.



> Nov. 1, 2022, 5:56 PM EDT
By Rob Wile
Hyundai has issued a new recall for approximately 44,000 model year 2018 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport vehicles due to a risk of fire.
The anti-lock brake system (ABS) module could malfunction and cause an electrical short, which could result in an engine compartment fire while parked or driving, the company said.


> February 8th, 2022 Hyundai and Kia, two automakers that share a corporate parent, have each issued new recalls for vehicles that can catch fire. The recalled vehicles include 2016-2018 Hyundai Santa Fe, 2017-2018 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport, 2019 Hyundai Santa Fe XL, 2014-2015 Hyundai Tucson, and 2014-2016 Kia Sportage SUVs, and the 2016-2018 Kia K900 sedan. According to the automakers—which share parts, designs, and suppliers—owners of these vehicles should park their cars outdoors and away from structures until a recall repair is completed.

How about Ford?

> May 19, 2022 | Washington, DC

Ford Motor Co. is warning rental car companies and other owners of 2021 Ford Expeditions and Lincoln Navigators to park their vehicles outside due to the risk of fire. The automaker has confirmed 16 fires, mostly in vehicles that were unattended. Fourteen of these fires were in rental cars.

Until further notice, owners of these affected vehicles should not park them inside – they should only be parked outside and away from homes and other structures. Fires have occurred in vehicles that were parked and turned off.


I don't know what the odds are for ICE vs EV catching fire, but it sure seems like ICE cars also have multiple ways to catch fire while parked.

 

[SageBrush]

I think there is a tangible difference here that is often glossed over:

The odds of a parked ICE spontaneously catching fire while parked in your garage are practically zero, because an ICE vehicle at rest has few if any internal catalysts that are going to ignite a sealed tank of fuel.

The same cannot be said for lithium batteries - either due to the chemical reality of the pack itself or the fact that you “refuel” your EV in the garage, creating other opportunities for combustion.

This would be a very valid point if the EV did not have a bucket full of sensors that disconnect the HV pack at the first sign of a ground fault or current/voltage out of spec. As things stand today, pack fires occur either from penetrating damage or internal shorts in the pack such as befell the Chevy Bolt. The pack is not vulnerable to any stray spark that happens to ignite fuel.

This is mostly why the incidence of ICE fires are so much higher than EV. But I want to emphasize again that not all fires are created equally. Not by a long shot. They vary is intensity; and more importantly they vary widely in explosive potential and time course. A Li-x fire is a lot hotter, but it is vastly safer for the vehicle occupants because there is no explosion and occupants have time to leave the vehicle.

----
Aside: ICE vehicles catch fire at a rate of about 50 per 1 billion miles. Perhaps 1/2 of those fires put the vehicle occupants at risk of severe injury/death, but the actual number I suspect is quite a bit lower.. This works out using the most pessimistic analysis to 1 fire per 40 million miles. If the average car travels 10,000 miles a year, on average a vehicle will present a dangerous fire risk every 4,000 years. It is best to improve those odds with an EV, but the risk of dying from all causes is about 1% a year, meaning a rational person who cares about safety knows to focus on other things, even if they own an ICE. This is all the more true for EV owners.

 

[zoomer0056]

I am currently finalizing my Tesla purchase and will be picking up next week

Great! What will you do to mitigate the risk of battery fire?

 

[buckets0fun]

Be sure to pick up a fireproof suit while you're at it.

It won’t do anything.
An EV owner would do better to learn their emergency door releases. When panic sets in, people get incredibly forgetful/stupid and revert to muscle memory.

 

[GOVA]

good to know

at least those petrol cars never burn.

 

[roblab]

Nope; too busy worrying about all of the distracted, drunk, stoned or just plain bad drivers. I also worry Bambi jumping out in front of my Tesla Model Y. A battery fire is way down the list.

I had Bambi's sister Gerda jump out from the side of the road, intent on getting in front of me and causing trouble. Luckily, I was doing about ten mph over the posted speed limit and Gerda ran into my driver's side door. Didn't leave a mark on the car, and she bounced off and ran back where she came from. This is proof that speeding can save lives!!! Or something like that.

 

[lionzer26125]

I think there is a tangible difference here that is often glossed over:

The odds of a parked ICE spontaneously catching fire while parked in your garage are practically zero, because an ICE vehicle at rest has few if any internal catalysts that are going to ignite a sealed tank of fuel.

The same cannot be said for lithium batteries - either due to the chemical reality of the pack itself or the fact that you “refuel” your EV in the garage, creating other opportunities for combustion.

An EV fire appears to be overall far less likely than an ICE car. But generally speaking the scenarios in which EVs tend to combust can be far less predictable and more catastrophic.

It’s worth discussing and acknowledging. To be clear, I have two EVs parked in my garage charging as we speak, so I’m quite unconcerned about the risk we’re talking about here in absolute terms.

I appreciate that your one of the few people on this thread that is actually recognizing that the risks are different with an EV vehicle.