David Silverman, president of American Atheists on CNN with Tesla

[ggies07]

That's kind of a "God of the gaps" argument which is as silly as it gets: just because we don't understand or comprehend some aspect of reality the answer is not to insert God or magical thinking.

In fairness, Johan, just because you don't fully understand his answer doesn't mean it's silly. It's just different than what you believe.

Thank you bonnie. I didn't say it was the only explanation and I don't even think you have to put God in there, I was just throwing something out there. I took a class in college on the Psychology of Technology and one of the topics was on what was 'time'. It was quite fascinating. I love all the science and thought processes behind String Theory, parallel universes and [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]multiverse, so where God fits into that...[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Besides, this whole thread is one opinion bounced off another.....can't be wrong. [/FONT]

 

[Johan]

Thank you bonnie. I didn't say it was the only explanation and I don't even think you have to put God in there, I was just throwing something out there. I took a class in college on the Psychology of Technology and one of the topics was on what was 'time'. It was quite fascinating. I love all the science and thought processes behind String Theory, parallel universes and [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]multiverse, so where God fits into that...[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Besides, this whole thread is one opinion bounced off another.....can't be wrong. [/FONT]

I know you didn't try to put forth an argument on God's existence.

My point was this: historically there have been many phenomena that humans were unable to understand or explain. Until we could understand or explain a common solution was to invoke God. Lightning: God is angry. Draught: God is punishing us. Disease and death: All part of God's great plan. The origin of Earth: God must have created it 12000 years ago, in 7 days. The origin of women: God created them from a man's rib. Etc. etc. etc.

Anyway, as we acquire more and more knowledge and understanding of ourselves and the world we live in there is less and less need to invoke God and in the end we're going to be left with a sort of awe and wonderment over the grandness and complexity of the universe which I can share in, without the need to invoke God or a creator.

Also: of course a discussion like this is all highly subjective and just opinions. As opposed to what is learnt by applying the scientific method, doing empirical research and so on. That should tell us something about how to value religious and spiritual "knowledge" and "truths".

 

[Al Sherman]

I finally made it to the current end of the thread. Congrats to all for keeping it civil. We always had an unwritten (but serious) rule in the cockpit of commercial airliners. Never discuss religion. Faith (and/or the lack of it) is just too volatile a subject while operating heavy machinery as a "team."
You guys are pulling it off, and it's a fascinating discussion. You're all brilliant and thoughtful. I'm proud!

 

[Twiglett]

I finally made it to the current end of the thread. Congrats to all for keeping it civil. We always had an unwritten (but serious) rule in the cockpit of commercial airliners. Never discuss religion. Faith (and/or the lack of it) is just too volatile a subject while operating heavy machinery as a "team."
You guys are pulling it off, and it's a fascinating discussion. You're all brilliant and thoughtful. I'm proud!

Thats some serious light touch needed for the "heavy machinery"

 

[GregTexas]

Also, we are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. I don't think anyone here believes in Zeus, Thor, etc. Some of us just go one god further.

I just started reading this thread and never thought of this fact. I believe God was created by man, not the other way around. What confuses me is why religious people decide to only believe in one imaginary figure and easily give up on belief in the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus.

 

[bonnie]

... and easily give up on belief in the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus.

Wait, what? WHAT????

 

[GregTexas]

What I don't understand is the concept of heaven. It's suppose to be eternal bliss. The Bible tells us it is "Paradise" (Luke 23:43) and:

"The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each of the gates made of a single pearl, and the street of the city was pure gold, transparent as glass. And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb. By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it, and its gates will never be shut by day—and there will be no night there." Revelation 21:21-25

This is heaven? To me no place is heaven without my wife and children and I don't want to have to wait for them. If I died tomorrow and left them alone, I'd be in hell (I'm suppose to be going there anywhere as an atheist) but even if I got into the Christian's heaven (mistake in the paperwork, let's say), I would be in hell. Sorry, but you can keep your heaven. I'd rather die and it all be over, than live on eternally, in some glorified heaven as described by the Bible. I'm not afraid of death. I was just fine in 1964 (the year before I was born), and if I never woke up after going to sleep tonight, I wouldn't even know the difference. It's the getting old part, and process of dying, that I'm afraid of. Death is hardest on those left behind, not on the person who died.

Canuck I designate you chief atheist representative. You can speak for me. Your posts through out this thread are enlightening. I too have questioned people's desire to end up in heaven. It sounds like no life at all. I used to ask if there was cheesecake in heaven. Now I have to ask if there are Teslas. A life in heaven with no lows would be like being in the movie Groundhog Day. A first it might be cool but would quickly get old and become Hell. I tell people it's good to get sick once or twice a year so you can appreciate the feeling of not being sick.

 

[NigelM]

I just started reading this thread and never thought of this fact. I believe God was created by man, not the other way around. What confuses me is why religious people decide to only believe in one imaginary figure and easily give up on belief in the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus.

I guess one could equally ask how many atheists celebrate St Valentine's Day, St Patrick's Day, Easter and Christmas? I'm sure the folks here stand be their convictions and don't celebrate or buy their kids Christmas gifts....

 

[beeeerock]

I guess one could equally ask how many atheists celebrate St Valentine's Day, St Patrick's Day, Easter and Christmas? I'm sure the folks here stand be their convictions and don't celebrate or buy their kids Christmas gifts....

Woah, woah, woah.... back up the bus... those are all religious holidays? I thought they were brought about to ensure rampant consumerism was maintained throughout the year? :biggrin:

 

[Johan]

I guess one could equally ask how many atheists celebrate St Valentine's Day, St Patrick's Day, Easter and Christmas? I'm sure the folks here stand be their convictions and don't celebrate or buy their kids Christmas gifts....

Sure I do! I love me a good holiday and I cherish cultural traditions (because that's all Christmas or Easter means to me). I also equally love the non-religious holidays such as good old regular Saturday and Sunday, Independence Day, New Years Day and so on.

Do you ever do work on Sundays Nigel? Do you have fun on Long Friday (Friday before Easter)? If so, aren't you picking and choosing as well?

Also, what do presents for the kids have to do with the religious holiday of the birth of Jesus? At least where I live the TRULY religious people make a big point of NOT buying presents.

 

[GregTexas]

I guess one could equally ask how many atheists celebrate St Valentine's Day, St Patrick's Day, Easter and Christmas? I'm sure the folks here stand be their convictions and don't celebrate or buy their kids Christmas gifts....

NigelM if you have carefully read all of Canuck's posts in this thread and still have not come over to the logical side of this equation, then you are hopelessly cult brainwashed and need some serious de-programming.

In fact, after reading a couple of your posts, I skipped over all the rest to get through this thread faster. :smile:

 

[bonnie]

NigelM if you have carefully read all of Canuck's posts in this thread and still have not come over to the logical side of this equation, then you are hopelessly cult brainwashed and need some serious de-programming.

In fact, after reading a couple of your posts, I skipped over all the rest to get through this thread faster. :smile:

Wow. Judgmental much? Nigel has been polite, respectful & has not attacked other's beliefs, only explained his and responded to questions.

Regardless of whether his beliefs match mine or yours, his respectful approach is a great role model for all of us.

 

[Johan]

NigelM if you have carefully read all of Canuck's posts in this thread and still have not come over to the logical side of this equation, then you are hopelessly cult brainwashed and need some serious de-programming.

In fact, after reading a couple of your posts, I skipped over all the rest to get through this thread faster. :smile:

Don't sink to that level. Let's have an intellectual quality debate. You have 5 posts on the forum so take a minute to think about how you want to come across.

Otherwise you always have the ratheists at atheism if you want a circlejerk playground.

 

[ecarfan]

Greg, putting a smiley face at the end of your post doesn't make it any less insulting. Nigel is a gentleman and his posts are always courteous and respectful. It would behoove you to follow his example.

NigelM if you have carefully read all of Canuck's posts in this thread and still have not come over to the logical side of this equation, then you are hopelessly cult brainwashed and need some serious de-programming.

In fact, after reading a couple of your posts, I skipped over all the rest to get through this thread faster. :smile:

 

[GregTexas]

You guys need to develop a sense of humor.

 

[dsm363]

You guys need to develop a sense of humor.

You need to be a little more polite, seeing as you are new here. Humor doesn't translate well on the internet especially if you are new to a forum.

 

[bonnie]

Canuck I designate you chief atheist representative. You can speak for me.

NigelM if you have carefully read all of Canuck's posts in this thread and still have not come over to the logical side of this equation, then you are hopelessly cult brainwashed and need some serious de-programming.

In fact, after reading a couple of your posts, I skipped over all the rest to get through this thread faster. :smile:

You guys need to develop a sense of humor.

Not wanting to speak for Canuck, but I suspect if he pops back over here, he'll *speak* for you. (And I don't think you'll like it.) He's been respectful throughout this discussion & I can't imagine he'd want to align with your *sense of humor*.

 

[NigelM]

NigelM if you have carefully read all of Canuck's posts in this thread and still have not come over to the logical side of this equation, then you are hopelessly cult brainwashed and need some serious de-programming.

Last time I checked the First Amendment was still in force and protected both my right to freedom of religion and your right not to practice any religion (if that's what you choose). That said, I always find it disconcerting when a suggestion comes to brainwash the so-called brainwashed; it just seems oddly contradictory. Anyway, there's been a few (fortunately not too many) borderline vitriolic posts in this thread and always coming from non-believers....happily those posts are generally outweighed by the tolerant and peaceful discussion that has taken place.

P.S. Thank you to the all the nice folks who replied on my behalf; it wasn't necessary but is much appreciated nevertheless.

 

[GregTexas]

Not wanting to speak for Canuck, but I suspect if he pops back over here, he'll *speak* for you. (And I don't think you'll like it.)

Well so far he's not piling on like you guys.

 

[bonnie]

Well so far he's not piling on like you guys.

Really, you feel like you're getting piled on? Seriously? You call a respected forum member brainwashed, imply they're not capable of processing logic, and suggest they need to be deprogrammed.

The responses have been mild in comparison.