Delay in model X launch?

[Mark Z]

Part of how good a person feels about a vehicle is after using it awhile. My original frustration with shoe scuffs on the wheel wells was tempered by figuring out an easier way to get in and out of the back seats. If the passenger plants their foot on the carpet and uses the 2nd row seat headrest and the FWD hinge pipe as a grab location, it's easy to step up and stand up. Then spin around and use the headrest to lower ones self into the rear seat. Use the 2nd row headrest to get out and life is easier. Each rider can figure out what technique is best to get in and out without marking up the vehicle, and that will help increase satisfaction.

With barely over 300 miles on the Model X, I have been waiting for the completion of the repairs before the real usage. Only then, can an honest assessment be made as Model S and X are compared with everything working perfectly.

 

[Merrill]

I rewatched how it's made and it talked about the pano room being 100% UV protected.

Good info. As I plan on doing various roadtrips with my wife, I will likely get the side windows tinted.

It is not really a humorous topic for those with family history of skin cancer issues or those with lupus and have high sensitivity to these things!

I meant no disrespect, I'm very aware of skin cancer having had it and was just trying to lighten up the thread.

 

[Zaxxon]

Man, the comments over the past few days in the X Facebook group are incredibly disappointing. They've got me (prod 7XXX) seriously considering cancellation before I've seen the car in person. It's a private group so I won't share the specifics, but it's not at all good. Many Sig X owners being treated completely unacceptably, several Xs in the service center for > a month with continually escalating issues, no loaners provided and no updates to the owners without repeated calls in, etc.

I know it's early and the car was always going to have issues, but Tesla's customer service response to their most loyal customers is totally unacceptable. Additionally, it's clear that Tesla as an organization can't provide a positive (or even neutral) experience to these customers while their babies are in to get their teething issues resolved. And we're talking about launching Model 3 in 23 months?

Without another 50 or so service center 'coming soon locations' arriving Real Soon Now™ so as to be operational at Model 3 launch, and without Tesla majorly upping their communications game (we've been harping on it for close to three years now with no improvement), that will be one of two things: 1) a total disaster for Tesla, or 2) nowhere near the launch/ramp numbers that Tesla is projecting.

I'm sure I'll be roasted for this post, but I'm genuinely incredibly sad to write this. IRL I'm the biggest Tesla cheerleader anyone in my life knows, and I've been hanging onto hope that the X will be a fantastic car despite delay after delay and virtually no concrete info to me from Tesla for going on 2 years now since my reservation was placed. At this point I just have no faith that Tesla the company will be able to provide positive ownership experience/customer service even if the X turns out to be a fantastic car after the ramp-up issues are resolved.

 

[pvogel]

I follow the Facebook group and I have seen SOME negative posts there, but nothing on the scale of what you imply here.

 

[ohmman]

Zaxxon, I don't think you'll be roasted. You've stated an honest (and completely fair) concern.

I know it's early and the car was always going to have issues, but Tesla's customer service response to their most loyal customers is totally unacceptable.

You know, it's funny - up until about a month before the delivery event, many here were saying how Tesla got all of the kinks worked out with the Model S, and the X was going to be a much smoother rollout. So while I agree that the car was always going to have issues, it's not necessarily wrong to have thought it would go more smoothly. That seemed to be the consensus. (And check out the Model 3 threads, they're positive Tesla's got it now!)

My suggestion to you is to keep waiting. Unless there's a reason you really want your $5k back now, you can keep at least some kind of priority for once you have seen more in person. To take the stress off, though, you can easily cancel and always get back in line another time. Cancellation doesn't mean never owning an X.

Remember, too, that the loudest voices are often the only ones to be heard in the room. I'm not saying they shouldn't be complaining if they're treated so poorly. However, they may represent only a fraction of the delivery base.

And we're talking about launching Model 3 in 23 months?

:smile: Suuuuure.

 

[Zaxxon]

I follow the Facebook group and I have seen SOME negative posts there, but nothing on the scale of what you imply here.

YGPM.

Zaxxon, I don't think you'll be roasted. You've stated an honest (and completely fair) concern.

Thanks.

You know, it's funny - up until about a month before the delivery event, many here were saying how Tesla got all of the kinks worked out with the Model S, and the X was going to be a much smoother rollout. So while I agree that the car was always going to have issues, it's not necessarily wrong to have thought it would go more smoothly. That seemed to be the consensus. (And check out the Model 3 threads, they're positive Tesla's got it now!)

My suggestion to you is to keep waiting. Unless there's a reason you really want your $5k back now, you can keep at least some kind of priority for once you have seen more in person. To take the stress off, though, you can easily cancel and always get back in line another time. Cancellation doesn't mean never owning an X.

I'm not planning to cancel just yet. We're not in a super rush to get our car and can wait it out at least through the spring before jumping ship to a competitor (if an ICE can be said to be a competitor!). Definitely want to see it in person before making any decision. And if we do eventually cancel, there's a good chance the cash would just be transferred to a Model 3 reservation...

Remember, too, that the loudest voices are often the only ones to be heard in the room. I'm not saying they shouldn't be complaining if they're treated so poorly. However, they may represent only a fraction of the delivery base.

I'm sure they are just a small fraction of the delivery base. And yet, they are customers. One thing I've been watching lately is the Service Center growth plans. The 'coming soon' list just seems grossly inadequate to me. Given the issues folks are having now getting in for service (both initial X and many S customers who've posted multi-week waits and no loaners), it's clear to me that ye olde 2013 service blog post is not the nationwide reality. Some service centers are still getting high marks from owners, but overall it seems that ranger/valet/loaner services are extremely hit-or-miss.

This is with 100k vehicles on the road worldwide. In 11 months that will be what, 180k? 23 months 300k? If my family buys an X, we'll be keeping it for at least 8 years (my current Prius will hit a decade old this year). I don't see evidence that Tesla is actively ramping its support infrastructure to the point where I'm confident I'd be taken care of a few years down the road. Really this and the continual terrible communications (we're 3.75 months past 'launch' and neither the X folks I can reach in California nor the local gallery staff have the faintest concrete idea of when I can expect a test drive) have me on the ropes.

Again, I plan to wait it out a few more months to see how things play out. I'm just a bit worried that Tesla has been focusing too much on ramping production volume without getting their service & communication ducks in a row. I appreciate your calming presence, though!

 

[Lump]

I follow the Facebook group and I have seen SOME negative posts there, but nothing on the scale of what you imply here.

Zaxxon's descriptions are accurate, I have read the same FB posts.

 

[pvogel]

OK. I too saw the post Zaxxon referred to, but a I think Zaxxon mis characterizes the post. That person was frustrated because their UNDELIVERED car had been in the service center getting tweaks for close on a month. If you haven't taken possession yet why would you expect a loaner? If you forced possession with known issues, why would you be upset that you have to be wait for parts, etc to get your car fully up to spec? (Not clear from the post whether she did force delivery or not). She should be in the same boat as a lot of us: waiting for delivery of the car she ordered. Some of us have been waiting more than a year longer than she has...

 

[smac]

@Zaxxon I too was an early adopter of a Tesla, _after_ Tesla had grown to the scale of business it could no longer do the hand holding it could afford to do with the small number of initial clients it had with the Roadster and US Model S launch. So I fully understand the frustrations.

I too had read the posts from the early days of stellar service, and my expectations were sky high. I had after all bought a car sight unseen, not even a test drive, with a 16 month waiting list and significant deposit.

Being perfectly blunt I almost sold the car, as service was such a joke compounded with lots of early car niggles. I submitted feedback on the "Messages to the board" about how bad the satellite service was (in my case in the UK) not even a courtesy "Thank you for your message". (I'm not talking minor things here either, government fines, multiple ICE loan cars turning up, delivery drivers coming to my house at midnight...)

I have no issue with the personnel by they way, they have always been courteous, enthusiastic and professional. It's more the immense pressure an overstretched team is under to get as many vehicles out the door as (in)humanly possible in run up to key financial reporting dates.

Sooo that's the bad stuff out of the way.

The good stuff, is I genuinely don't know what car I would replace my S with in 18 months time. It is a fantastic product, not perfect, but streets ahead of the alternatives.



Every time I see a non AP UK car I have a little smile, and say to myself "beat them to it ". Do I sometimes feel I'd have been better off and waiting 6 months for the issues to have been worked out so I didn't feel like a poorly supported beta tester (not just of the car but of internal processes) for sure.

If I were to have my time again, would I change the fact I went in early. On balance probably not.

 

[Zaxxon]

OK. I too saw the post Zaxxon referred to, but a I think Zaxxon mis characterizes the post. That person was frustrated because their UNDELIVERED car had been in the service center getting tweaks for close on a month. If you haven't taken possession yet why would you expect a loaner? If you forced possession with known issues, why would you be upset that you have to be wait for parts, etc to get your car fully up to spec? (Not clear from the post whether she did force delivery or not). She should be in the same boat as a lot of us: waiting for delivery of the car she ordered. Some of us have been waiting more than a year longer than she has...

You're right that it's an undelivered car, and that particular customer should not expect a loaner. I stand by my characterization of the thread as a whole (involving others who have taken possession). Bottom line is these folks are not getting a positive experience.

@smac, thanks for the perspective.

 

[Lump]

OK. I too saw the post Zaxxon referred to, but a I think Zaxxon mis characterizes the post. That person was frustrated because their UNDELIVERED car had been in the service center getting tweaks for close on a month. If you haven't taken possession yet why would you expect a loaner? If you forced possession with known issues, why would you be upset that you have to be wait for parts, etc to get your car fully up to spec? (Not clear from the post whether she did force delivery or not). She should be in the same boat as a lot of us: waiting for delivery of the car she ordered. Some of us have been waiting more than a year longer than she has...

There is another Sig owner (early VIN) in that thread that did take delivery, did you read his comments?

 

[jasonsc]

I was just informed that there was a "slowdown" in Sig X deliveries - anyone else heard this? It seems like there have been deliveries occurring in the last couple of days. I was told this was a SW region issue. Would be nice to be able to provide my DS with some examples of deliveries.

 

[andrewket]

I don't think it's a SW region issue, it's the entire production line. It's a part supply issue.

 

[jasonsc]

I don't think it's a SW region issue, it's the entire production line. It's a part supply issue.

I'm not talking about the line, I'm referring to signature models that are at the service centers

 

[andrewket]

I'm not talking about the line, I'm referring to signature models that are at the service centers

Same thing. There are X's at the factory and the SCs waiting on parts. They are building the cars 99% complete, waiting on something ...

 

[Merrill]

I really do not understand sending the cars to service centers for major work, they have so much room at the factory and could have a special team to make those corrections. Most of the service centers are overwhelmed without have to deal with the Model X problems. Plus all the equipment and parts are at the factory to begin with.

 

[omarsultan]

I really do not understand sending the cars to service centers for major work, they have so much room at the factory and could have a special team to make those corrections. Most of the service centers are overwhelmed without have to deal with the Model X problems. Plus all the equipment and parts are at the factory to begin with.

If the part is something that is field replaceable, like seat motors, then this makes sense. If they hold everything in Fremont, first they have a limited number of technicians that can do the work so that becomes a choke point, second, you then have two sequential delays: wait for the part, then wait for transit to the SvC. If they ship the MXs to the SvCs for "finishing", they distribute the work to install the part across all their SvCs and they run the wait time for the part to arrive and the transit time for the MX in parallel.

 

[Merrill]

If the part is something that is field replaceable, like seat motors, then this makes sense. If they hold everything in Fremont, first they have a limited number of technicians that can do the work so that becomes a choke point, second, you then have two sequential delays: wait for the part, then wait for transit to the SvC. If they ship the MXs to the SvCs for "finishing", they distribute the work to install the part across all their SvCs and they run the wait time for the part to arrive and the transit time for the MX in parallel.

If it is an easy repair that makes sense, but based on some reports some of the repairs were more involved. As I said you would hire a special team to do these things separate from the production employees. I think they are overwhelming the SC.

 

[Cosmacelf]

So I recently got my X back from the service center. It was there a week trying to pinpoint an annoying creaking sound coming from behind the dash (go over certain types of bumps, you hear a creak). They had engineering helping them work on it. In the end, I said I needed my car back, so I got it back, basically unfixed. They said my car was unique, in that they've never had that issue before. It isn't a big deal, just annoying if you don't listen to music or anything.

So a comment about the service center. I like the guys there, I really do. They try hard. But they don't always give you a call back when they say they are going to. When I got my car back, they obviously hadn't done any kind of inspection on it, since it came back with a driver's door window issue (which happened to be fixed that night after a software update), and a third row back of seat fabric flap problem.

About the car itself. I generally like it, but not without reservations. This is unlike my 3 year old Model S which I liked without reservations. My issues with the Model X include the bizarre pano windshield. The more I use the car, the more I think WTF? If you wear sunglasses and like convertibles, this car is for you. If you don't, it is damn annoying.

The second row seats are annoying too, in that they take forever to move back and forth. Want to pile kids into the third row? Prepare to wait for a long time to move the seat ponderously forward and then backwards with a hard to see button. I won't even mention that lack of folding which is just stupid.

The third row is worse for convenience. The #1 thing you need to do with the third row is to fold them down and fold them back up as you convert the back from a person area to a storage area and back. To fold the third row seats down requires the following actions:

- Open driver side FWD.
- Move second row seat forward.
- Reach back and feel for a round button hidden in the seat top by the headrest. I say hidden because it is a white button on a white background, with no easily visible indication it is a button.
- Press button, headrest flips down.
- Press button again, this time while awkwardly pulling seat down with your other hand. You cannot do this with one hand.
- Press second row seat button to put second row seat back.
- Close driver side FWD.
- Open passenger side FWD.
- Move second row seat forward.
- Reach back and feel for a round button hidden in the seat top by the headrest. I say hidden because it is a white button on a white background, with no easily visible indication it is a button.
- Press button, headrest flips down.
- Press button again, this time while awkwardly pulling seat down with your other hand. You cannot do this with one hand.
- Press second row seat button to put second row seat back.
- Close passenger side FWD.

Yes, this takes as long as it sounds, and no it isn't elegant. Tesla could easily have motorized the third row seats, but they didn't. They should have.

The rear cigarette lighter power adapter comes completely out of the wall, wires trailing it, after you try to unplug something from it. The "wall" it is built into is very flimsy.

The third row seat back fabric is cheap, I've already broken a carpet tab on the bottom of it.

As I said, I generally like the car (and my wife thinks the driveability and comfort of the seats and driving position is a 1000 times better than my 3 year old Model S). So, good car, drivetrain and suspension is top notch, too bad about the other stuff...

 

[ModelS8794]

You can't fold the rear seats down by accessing them through the trunk?