Devoted Teslonian now developing a resentment

[Jbailey]

Wait for fsd to be reality before you give your money away. Come on common sense.

I really cant see FSD for another 15 years, if that. Floridians are still driving under trailers and regulatory people are going to want perfection before giving the go ahead. I pass 2 schools on the way to work with a traffic guard directing traffic. I cant see FSD handling this or moving over for emergency vehicles. There are 100s of exceptions to the norm with routine driving. Missing any of these can have catastrophic results. If everyone had a high tech car it would help, but these rednecks are driving 15 hear old trucks so there would be a mix of computer driven cars with drunk methed out rednecks headed to a flat earth convention

 

[dave999z]

In that instance I wonder who is liable, the owner of the self driving car or the drunk methed out redneck.

 

[Jbailey]

In that instance I wonder who is liable, the owner of the self driving car or the drunk methed out redneck.

The rednecks of course. With a good lawyer they could be forced to give their trailer and their prize pit bull to your next of kin.

 

[VT_EE]

I see your point too, it is kind of weird that they are offering AP+FSD for just 5K for anyone that didnt get it. But I think, Tesla wants to lure in these customers who previously have no interest in this type of technology and bring in much needed cash.

I honestly dont get why they have to introduce 35K Model 3 when the margins are so thin.

I think it's a bone for their recently depreciated vehicles as a result of the recent price reductions. It takes the sting off. Unfortunately, their goodwill has given some of us the shaft.

 

[Jbailey]

I think it's a bone for their recently depreciated vehicles as a result of the recent price reductions. It takes the sting off. Unfortunately, their goodwill has given some of us the shaft.

Maybe they could raise some more money by giving a few more podcasters a roadster or two.

 

[super20g]

I have a 2018 and meet lemon criteria for days out of service. I am sure there are plenty of us in that situation. I could lemon mine and get a new 2019 for less money... Tesla is putting me in an awkward spot. New and cheaper without the warts of an early build sure sounds good.

I wonder how many will pre-order the Model Y after this last round of shenanigans? Probably not nearly as many.

 

[Jbailey]

I have a 2018 and meet lemon criteria for days out of service. I am sure there are plenty of us in that situation. I could lemon mine and get a new 2019 for less money... Tesla is putting me in an awkward spot. New and cheaper without the warts of an early build sure sounds good.

I wonder how many will pre-order the Model Y after this last round of shenanigans? Probably not nearly as many.

Go for it! Dang never thought I would be envious of one who's car qualifies as a lemon. My @#$% car has been perfect. I can never catch a break LOL

No more pre-orders or early cars for me. lesson learned.

 

[S3XY]

I think that everyone is enjoying FSD the same way.

Those who got it for cheap as well as those who got it for not-so-cheap. The same way.

Especially since it does not exist yet.



Correction: I think I'm enjoying my more expensive "nothing" a little less. lol

Technically, some of the features included in EAP are part of FSD now so you've had some FSD features for a while. I'm kind of in the same boat as you in that I already paid $5k for EAP which would now buy that and FSD. Checking my Tesla account it says I can add FSD for another $3k, which if I do would essentially puts me in the same position as you are except for the timing of the cash outlays. I'm not happy about this but I'm also not anywhere near as pissed as you are.

It sounds like EAP will get me everything FSD has except stop sign and traffic signal reading, and city driving which includes turns. I'm not really concerned about missing those added features but the reason I can't get them is because I don't have, and won't get, the HW3 processor unless I pay to upgrade. This means that the AP features I do have cannot be as safe as if I had the better processor. So this puts me in the dilemma of do I drop another $3k for increased EAP safety (while also getting additional features I'm not likely to use) or do I just hold as is? I'd also like to add that Elon had said long ago that the cars that were being produced had all of the hardware that was necessary for FSD. Apparently that wasn't the case.

 

[Glamisduner]

I have a 2018 and meet lemon criteria for days out of service. I am sure there are plenty of us in that situation. I could lemon mine and get a new 2019 for less money... Tesla is putting me in an awkward spot. New and cheaper without the warts of an early build sure sounds good.

I wonder how many will pre-order the Model Y after this last round of shenanigans? Probably not nearly as many.

I'm there with you mine qualifies since it was in the shop for the first month and 1/2 when I purchased and it went in again this last Friday for the 6th time or so to fix rattling door panels.

 

[MentalNomad]

Well, to be fair, what did YOU think you were getting when you bought the FSD upgrade and, more importantly, when did you think you were going to get it?

I thought I was getting a discount. I thought I was paying way in advance for a feature that would surely not be around for a year, and perhaps not for several, and in return for pre-purchasing, I was getting a discount.

This belief was based on believing what Tesla told me: that if I didn't buy EAP + FSD for $8,000 last year, that it would later cost $10,000 to add it.

Has any of that changed since you paid for FSD?

Yes. They now openly say they'll sell it to people in my position for $5,000 instead of the $10,000 they told me.

 

[MentalNomad]

It's also absurd to think a company can refund earlier customers every time prices drop.

I don't see people asking for refunds based on the reduced price of the car.

We're talking about FSD and having pre-paid for something that hasn't been delivered yet.

If I pre-paid $3000 towards something, and at the time it was finally delivered the price was actually only $2000, then yes, I'd expect a refund.

How would you feel if you put $1000 down on a Model 3 a few years ago... and before you got to order yours, they announced that they've lowered the purchases price by $2000, but your deposit no longer counts toward the purchase price?

Are people who purchased EAP+FSD last year getting a $1k refund. I’m hearing conflicting reports.

No, as of now, they are not getting a refund. The "confilcting reports" stem from people sharing screen shots of a Twitter reply Elon Musk made without the context of the question - that question referred only to a pricing error on the web site on one day last week and did not apply to purchases from 2018.

Going out and buying a fully loaded car on initial release is never going to be the best deal, but in return you get to drive it before everyone else!

We didn't get to have FSD at all. We only get to see others pay less.

You chose to sign up for all those packages knowing that it could go up or down and you took the risk to buying in early for FSD.

No, I was very clearly and specifically told that the price for EAP + FSD would go up to $10,000 unless I paid $8000 for them immediately. If I had not paid $8000 last year, today I could buy that same set of features as AP + FSD for $5000.

I knew the price of the car could come down - I expected it to come down. But we're not talking about the price of the car - we're talking about a specific feature upgrade which they said would go up when it comes available. And it still isn't available - we're still in a pre-paid, deposit-like situation.

You really don't get it. They are related. Tesla lowered the price of FSD and AP to make up for the fact that new owners will get $2250 discounts. That's why new buyers won't get the special $5000 price.

No, this offer to previous buyers has nothing to do with making up for changes in the car price. It's about coaxing more cash out of people at a time when the company needs cash. I understand this. I get it. But doing it by turning their previous claims into lies is a problem.

you do realize that if you buy AP today, it's not the same as having EAP that we have? it's not gonna have auto steering and navigate on autopilot.

The new AP has auto steering (stay in lane.) What it doesn't do is change lanes (which is part of Navigate on Autopilot.)

I honestly dont get why they have to introduce 35K Model 3 when the margins are so thin.

Because they have a large number of reservations still not being turned into orders; a lot of people are waiting for the $35k version. In addition, the company's growth/funding model relies on continuing to ramp and sell more and more cars, which is unlikely unless they can introduce the $35k model & the Y. So they need it to satisfy investors, to generate the cash flows to meet debt obligations, and to continue the modeled growth of the company.

Remember, unless you want to delay the EV revolution by a decade, you need to push forward while the margins are thin - because pushing forward to mass production is what makes the margins bigger. The margins will stay thin until full mass production kicks in. It's the mass production that drives down the costs and provides for fatter margins.

Don't forget - this whole endeavor is to drive the creation of a giant battery company in order to bring down the cost of rechargeable batteries in order to solve the power problem. Musk didn't want to make an electric car company - he wanted to sell batteries to existing care companies. But they all said EVs were impossible, so he was forced to start an EV company to generate his own battery demand to kick-start the EV revolution, which is kick-starting the battery power revolution that enables Solar and Wind at massive scale.

 

[wokuku]

Tesla could do better by making the discount more fair between the segments. The way they have it now makes 2/3 groups not happy.

For owners with no EAP/FSD
AP ($2k) + FSD ($4K) = $6K

For owners with EAP ($5K+)
FSD ($1k) => $6K+ total out of pocket

For owners with EAP/FSD
Something better than early access. There are lots of things Tesla could give here without costing much money, such as supercharger credit, free AP for next car purchase, etc.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

On all three of the OP's examples I can't make heads or tails of why they did it the way they did.

The price reduction of the P3D should have happened AFTER the new year, and not just before. They could have easily explained it with the disappearing tax credit. Sure some people would have been upset, but that's okay. You don't have to make everyone happy.

The Early access program shouldn't be a gift for anything. It should simply be something if a person expresses interest, and a willingness to put a lot of effort into testing things and reporting back. I'd be one of those people, but I'll probably decline. The reason is I don't want it to mess with normal releases. I'd rather have a "check for updates" button.

The upgrade pricing should have been set so that everyone had to pay $8K to get FSD. Regardless of whether you were coming from EAP, or nothing.

As it is now I don't if I should be upset or not.

I paid $8K for EAP+FSD.

EAP owners will have to pay $7K, and that's $1K less than I think is fair. It was $3K till Elon told someone that he felt it should be $2K. That made absolutely no sense to me.

non-EAP owners have to pay $5K. But, how many of them are really willing to pay $5K? That's a lot of money, and there is probably a reason why they didn't buy EAP (was too much for what they wanted, etc). Most of the FSD features are things that showed up under EAP when they bought. Is those extra things really going to convince them this time around? Probably not. They'll probably just get the much cheaper AP package.

So I think if there is anger its at Tesla for failing to be better organized with these changes. They should have had everything planned out, and locked down. Where Elon didn't go "Oh, I feel bad. Lemme lower the price for your group.".

 

[EinSV]

I don't see people asking for refunds based on the reduced price of the car.

We're talking about FSD and having pre-paid for something that hasn't been delivered yet.

If I pre-paid $3000 towards something, and at the time it was finally delivered the price was actually only $2000, then yes, I'd expect a refund.

As several people have mentioned (including me), Elon has already said on Twitter that people who paid $3K for FSD will get a $1K refund:

"If you bought enhanced autopilot, FSD upgrade costs $2k instead of $5k" Elon Musk on Twitter

"Yeah, we need a few days to update the system. If anyone already paid $3k, they should get $1k back." Elon Musk on Twitter

If people choose not to believe plain English and instead continue to get upset over an issue Elon has already addressed, there is nothing I can do to help them.

What I can do is think about how to spend my $2000 FSD windfall from Tesla (we have two Model 3s with FSD).

My current plan is to use it to buy tickets to fly to Greece. I have never been to the Greek islands, and a beach vacation later this year sounds very relaxing.

Another thing I can do is think about the amazing deal I am getting -- only $2K for the FSD package, which also includes a chip upgrade. I thought $3K was a pretty sweet deal -- and this is even better.

Thanks Elon!

 

[dc2s14]

On all three of the OP's examples I can't make heads or tails of why they did it the way they did.

The price reduction of the P3D should have happened AFTER the new year, and not just before. They could have easily explained it with the disappearing tax credit. Sure some people would have been upset, but that's okay. You don't have to make everyone happy.

The Early access program shouldn't be a gift for anything. It should simply be something if a person expresses interest, and a willingness to put a lot of effort into testing things and reporting back. I'd be one of those people, but I'll probably decline. The reason is I don't want it to mess with normal releases. I'd rather have a "check for updates" button.

The upgrade pricing should have been set so that everyone had to pay $8K to get FSD. Regardless of whether you were coming from EAP, or nothing.

As it is now I don't if I should be upset or not.

I paid $8K for EAP+FSD.

EAP owners will have to pay $7K, and that's $1K less than I think is fair. It was $3K till Elon told someone that he felt it should be $2K. That made absolutely no sense to me.

non-EAP owners have to pay $5K. But, how many of them are really willing to pay $5K? That's a lot of money, and there is probably a reason why they didn't buy EAP (was too much for what they wanted, etc). Most of the FSD features are things that showed up under EAP when they bought. Is those extra things really going to convince them this time around? Probably not. They'll probably just get the much cheaper AP package.

So I think if there is anger its at Tesla for failing to be better organized with these changes. They should have had everything planned out, and locked down. Where Elon didn't go "Oh, I feel bad. Lemme lower the price for your group.".

Agreed. This erratic behavior will cause many to start losing faith, especially the current Tesla owners as they feel the hurt — both vocal and silent groups.

My only theory is that Tesla believes the benefit of attracting new buyers via price drops outweighs the resentment/remorse/faith of current owners. Their offer of consolation only aims at those who haven’t prepurchased EAP/FSD while shafting those who did — hard. Invitation to early access program is a huge slap to the face.

 

[happyzod]

On all three of the OP's examples I can't make heads or tails of why they did it the way they did.

The price reduction of the P3D should have happened AFTER the new year, and not just before. They could have easily explained it with the disappearing tax credit. Sure some people would have been upset, but that's okay. You don't have to make everyone happy.

The Early access program shouldn't be a gift for anything. It should simply be something if a person expresses interest, and a willingness to put a lot of effort into testing things and reporting back. I'd be one of those people, but I'll probably decline. The reason is I don't want it to mess with normal releases. I'd rather have a "check for updates" button.

The upgrade pricing should have been set so that everyone had to pay $8K to get FSD. Regardless of whether you were coming from EAP, or nothing.

As it is now I don't if I should be upset or not.

I paid $8K for EAP+FSD.

EAP owners will have to pay $7K, and that's $1K less than I think is fair. It was $3K till Elon told someone that he felt it should be $2K. That made absolutely no sense to me.

non-EAP owners have to pay $5K. But, how many of them are really willing to pay $5K? That's a lot of money, and there is probably a reason why they didn't buy EAP (was too much for what they wanted, etc). Most of the FSD features are things that showed up under EAP when they bought. Is those extra things really going to convince them this time around? Probably not. They'll probably just get the much cheaper AP package.

So I think if there is anger its at Tesla for failing to be better organized with these changes. They should have had everything planned out, and locked down. Where Elon didn't go "Oh, I feel bad. Lemme lower the price for your group.".

It all goes down to money. They wanted the money and they had to throw a carrot in there to get the money from people. If you don't offer a discount, people won't have an incentive to buy FSD or AP. The sum of the price changes are all pretty significant.

 

[dmurphy]

The way I see it is this ....

The vehicle price changes - well, they are what they are. If they acted like the other car companies and left the MSRP the same but put them “on sale” nobody would complain. I prefer the transparency this way.

So some people may pay different prices for the FSD features, even though they’re packaged differently. That’s what happens every day out in the real world - if I buy a TV now, and then it goes on sale on Black Friday, someone’s going to get a better deal than me. It doesn’t mean I hate LG. That’d just be silly.

 

[Peteski]

The way I see it is this ....

The vehicle price changes - well, they are what they are. If they acted like the other car companies and left the MSRP the same but put them “on sale” nobody would complain. I prefer the transparency this way.

So some people may pay different prices for the FSD features, even though they’re packaged differently. That’s what happens every day out in the real world - if I buy a TV now, and then it goes on sale on Black Friday, someone’s going to get a better deal than me. It doesn’t mean I hate LG. That’d just be silly.

This is a good point. Every day people buy identical spec cars from franchised dealers at significantly different prices. Even at the same dealership! At least buying a Tesla is a lot more transparent in that regard.

 

[dmurphy]

This is a good point. Every day people buy identical spec cars from franchised dealers at significantly different prices. Even at the same dealership! At least buying a Tesla is a lot more transparent in that regard.

... and that’s the straight-up, apples-to-apples comparison.

We can shift the conversation a little and talk about JC Penney. When they decided to stop inflating prices and offering bogus “sales”, and instead just priced things appropriately from the start..... revenue tanked.

It turns out, people are totally irrational and need to feel like “they got a deal.” Even if the end price is the exact same.

So I think some of that is coming home to roost for Tesla. They’ve tried the straight up, transparent pricing approach and are now taking blowback for it. Be careful what you wish for, folks ... you just might get it.

 

[Cowby]

I’d be down for free unlimited Supercharging as compensation. That way Tesla gets to keep the extra money since they need it and we get future value use and don’t feel so cheated?