Im looking to go from a MYP to an X but having a hard time deciding which year. Im buying used. It will either be a 2021 Performance, or a refresh. If you have owned both could you tell me which one you like more and some of the pros/cons? I will swap the yoke out immediately if I get a refresh so I dont care about that.
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Did anyone go from a Raven to the refresh? Thoughts?
- Thread starter bpobill
- Start date
You didnt mention that you owned both in your first reply. Lots of people like to give opinions without having the experience.
FirstInTown
Member
Owned a 9-2020 MXLR+ made Raven with 'H' battery for longest range EVER in an X (371 EPA). Traded for a 6-2022 that we had on reserve for 18 months, arrived last June(6-20-22). That one has a slightly smaller battery and more power for 348 EPA range. 2022 is daily driver. Trade value was SO good, gave the Raven to Tesla for the new one.
Differences:
Pros Raven:
-Steering WHEEL. This one is beat to death, but yoke, in my mind is an inferior way to steer a car. You're swapping so no big deal.
-TURN STALKS. The Refresh buttons for turn and horn and wipers are WORSE THAN THE YOKE!!!!!. No solution. Wife doesn't like or hate yoke, but hates buttons. Don't work with gloves or if turning wheel while decide to turn on signal light, you now have a moving target to hit. NOT BETTER.
-Simple control to set wiper speed (Refresh does it all on the screen, raven was better)
-Simple control to set TACC follow distance. Nope, can't press button l/r like on 3/Y, have to use screen on Refresh. Raven was best of all, with a simple turning knob.
-Screen orientation is better if not watching movies while charging. On Refresh, the horizontal, even with the tilt is too far away to press right side w/o leaving seat a bit. Yoke blocks bottom left of new screen, where wheel didn't do that on the Raven, could see whole screen. Can tough whole screen on Raven w/o stretching.
Audio System SOO GOOD. Don't know how to explain, but there was an open, airiness in the sound stage across the dash that the Refresh is missing. I miss that sound!
-Raven dash vents did a much better job keeping side windows clear of fog.
-Light around charge port. Refresh is like the 3/Y, single useless 'T'. Raven was so easy to plug in when it's really dark in garage.
-Dash is configurable. Refresh is locked down and can't change to get info that I want.
-A HORN in the middle of the airbag. We were lied too back in 3-2022 when Elon Tweeted all cars since Nov had hardware for horn, just need software. Lies. (Or the most pathetic, slowest software fix ever, take your pick.)
-Better X Door Dancing factory show-off mode. Original Dance was well though out and a great show. Refreash OEM dance is LAME. Misses the point of building suspense with the lights, THEN move the doors for the WOW moment. Plus new one just end abruptly, like the intern working on it was fired. (Solution, can make your own, but is time consuming and the editor is slow to use. Search for my DOORS MOVING one on the lightshare site. /end cheap plug)
Pro Refresh:
-Fast. LR is Noticeably faster than LR+ Raven. Actually it's as fast as your MYP as that is 3.5sec with 1 foot rollout subtracted. Well, that rollout is about 0.3 seconds. The MXLR is 3.8 W/O rollout subtracted, so same as your MYP. And I've done a 3.8 sec 0-60 with a Draggy but could never get the Raven to do the 4.4 sec it was rated at. Raven was more like 4.6 on the Draggy.
-Quieter. The Raven was road noise and tire noise loud. The Refresh has double pane side glass and who knows what else, but is noticeably quieter. Still louder than say my Chevy Volt, but Teslas are never quite cars as Elon hates window frames and frameless windows never seal as well as almost all other cars. But Refresh is better with noise.
-Better ride on bumps. Both have air suspension, but noticed right away the Refresh handled bumps and cornered better than the Raven.
-Heat Pump should help range in the cold. On Paper, its's 3x more efficient at making heat, but when gets below 20deg f, that advantage vanishes and still suck lots of energy to keep passengers warm. Don't see the range getting any better when REALLY cold and that's when you need it most.
-Faster Super Charging. I've got 260kwh on Refresh and didn't see over 200-210kwh on the Raven.
-Web Browser works. Raven must be so limited for RAM, most sites crash the browser to the point, stopped even trying to use it. (But Atom processor in Raven is NOT slow for car controls you use. The CPU just didn't like Netflix, web browsing, internet things, etc.)
-Cooled seats. Look, if you are going to sell vinyl seats as "vegan leather", they are warmer than a good cloth. Need cooling in the summer for my sweaty but, and the cooled seat helps.
-Brighter stock interior lighting. The Raven was DIM and I had used Abstract Ocean aftermarket bulbs to fix problem. Refresh is ok stock.
-CCS charging works on all of them. If get a Raven, be sure it says CCS enabled on the features screen if this is important to you. We live in a charger waste land, so any high speed charging helps even if EA or Charge Point CCS.
-More 'modern dash' But is is really? Seems like a simple twist on the 5 year old '3' design. I was impressed with the look the first time I saw it, until I realized it is just a morphing of the 3/y dash design ques to include a screen behind the wheel.
Same.
-Both chew through CV join axels. Just had both replaced at 15k on Refresh. But Raven had then done at 18k miles also when we had that car.
-Phantom braking exists and is annoying. Raven has Radar, but Tesla disabled in software as they were incapable of making it work as well as Mobile Eye system so all cars use Vision.
-Auto Wipers Suck. But manual control is better on Raven, so I guess wipers suck more on Refresh.
-Auto highbeams suck. Maybe a little better with last software release????
In general, the Refresh is a better car. Not a "10-month-of shutdown-to-make-the-changes" better, but is better. EXCEPT for all the user interface deficiencies brought on by the Yoke and lack of stalks. Sure can change Yoke out, but this have the missing stalks that made the Raven more enjoyable from an ergonomics standpoint.
Here is my ideal car:
A 2022, with Ultra-Sonics and following parts mash:
Steering wheel: Raven
Stalks: Raven
Sound System :Raven (Man, I miss you....)
Screen Direction: Raven
Dash side vents for window fog: Raven
Sound Insulation: Refresh (It's noticeably quieter and that means ALOT)
Heat Pump: Refresh for 20-50 deg F days
Suspension ride quality: Raven
Dash design: Refresh. (5 year old from '3' vs 11 year old from the 'S')
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Also not on either, but please add:
-Fix the Phantom braking
-Fix the CV join angle so I can use the power w/o damaging the car.
-Fix the Auto Headlights and wipers. Add a sensor if you have to.
. - Get ALL 'beta' features out of 'beta' before spend time move things around on the screen for no reason
-Give me a 360 deg surround camera.
-Matrix headlights that actually 'dip' for oncoming cars and are useful as true matrix lights were designed to do (not just spell TESLA on the wall).
-How about a camera rear-view mirror
-'Real' soft leather seating
-And how about that coast-to-coast self driving car from 2016?
If the price was right, I don't have a problem with a Raven (other than CV joins but that's all MX). With Raven, later is better. Heck, we were going to keep our Raven and were going to flip the new one as it took soo long for the Refresh to come it. But the trade value was so high and we got a new car with new warrantee for basically nothing. Hard to pass up new. Bye-bye Raven.
If going Raven, I would get a 9-2020, 10-2020 (late 2020 Model) or 11-2020, 12-2020 (2021 model) (they only made 2021 from 11-2020 to Dec 24th 2022 then shut down for 10 months to do refresh. But back in 9-2020, the battery became an 'H' rev on the 2020s and was upped from 351 to 371 miles EPA. NO changes from Sept or Oct 2020 to the Nov, Dec 2021 MX. Most dealers have no idea what they have, have to get build date and your own knowledge.
If getting a Refresh, early 10-2021 -->5-2022 had computer overheating problems with the touch screen. Warrantee is fix available. These had no radar but ultra-Sonics. Now they are on HW4 but pulled the ultra-sonics for $$$ savings.
Hope this helps.
Differences:
Pros Raven:
-Steering WHEEL. This one is beat to death, but yoke, in my mind is an inferior way to steer a car. You're swapping so no big deal.
-TURN STALKS. The Refresh buttons for turn and horn and wipers are WORSE THAN THE YOKE!!!!!. No solution. Wife doesn't like or hate yoke, but hates buttons. Don't work with gloves or if turning wheel while decide to turn on signal light, you now have a moving target to hit. NOT BETTER.
-Simple control to set wiper speed (Refresh does it all on the screen, raven was better)
-Simple control to set TACC follow distance. Nope, can't press button l/r like on 3/Y, have to use screen on Refresh. Raven was best of all, with a simple turning knob.
-Screen orientation is better if not watching movies while charging. On Refresh, the horizontal, even with the tilt is too far away to press right side w/o leaving seat a bit. Yoke blocks bottom left of new screen, where wheel didn't do that on the Raven, could see whole screen. Can tough whole screen on Raven w/o stretching.
Audio System SOO GOOD. Don't know how to explain, but there was an open, airiness in the sound stage across the dash that the Refresh is missing. I miss that sound!
-Raven dash vents did a much better job keeping side windows clear of fog.
-Light around charge port. Refresh is like the 3/Y, single useless 'T'. Raven was so easy to plug in when it's really dark in garage.
-Dash is configurable. Refresh is locked down and can't change to get info that I want.
-A HORN in the middle of the airbag. We were lied too back in 3-2022 when Elon Tweeted all cars since Nov had hardware for horn, just need software. Lies. (Or the most pathetic, slowest software fix ever, take your pick.)
-Better X Door Dancing factory show-off mode. Original Dance was well though out and a great show. Refreash OEM dance is LAME. Misses the point of building suspense with the lights, THEN move the doors for the WOW moment. Plus new one just end abruptly, like the intern working on it was fired. (Solution, can make your own, but is time consuming and the editor is slow to use. Search for my DOORS MOVING one on the lightshare site. /end cheap plug)
Pro Refresh:
-Fast. LR is Noticeably faster than LR+ Raven. Actually it's as fast as your MYP as that is 3.5sec with 1 foot rollout subtracted. Well, that rollout is about 0.3 seconds. The MXLR is 3.8 W/O rollout subtracted, so same as your MYP. And I've done a 3.8 sec 0-60 with a Draggy but could never get the Raven to do the 4.4 sec it was rated at. Raven was more like 4.6 on the Draggy.
-Quieter. The Raven was road noise and tire noise loud. The Refresh has double pane side glass and who knows what else, but is noticeably quieter. Still louder than say my Chevy Volt, but Teslas are never quite cars as Elon hates window frames and frameless windows never seal as well as almost all other cars. But Refresh is better with noise.
-Better ride on bumps. Both have air suspension, but noticed right away the Refresh handled bumps and cornered better than the Raven.
-Heat Pump should help range in the cold. On Paper, its's 3x more efficient at making heat, but when gets below 20deg f, that advantage vanishes and still suck lots of energy to keep passengers warm. Don't see the range getting any better when REALLY cold and that's when you need it most.
-Faster Super Charging. I've got 260kwh on Refresh and didn't see over 200-210kwh on the Raven.
-Web Browser works. Raven must be so limited for RAM, most sites crash the browser to the point, stopped even trying to use it. (But Atom processor in Raven is NOT slow for car controls you use. The CPU just didn't like Netflix, web browsing, internet things, etc.)
-Cooled seats. Look, if you are going to sell vinyl seats as "vegan leather", they are warmer than a good cloth. Need cooling in the summer for my sweaty but, and the cooled seat helps.
-Brighter stock interior lighting. The Raven was DIM and I had used Abstract Ocean aftermarket bulbs to fix problem. Refresh is ok stock.
-CCS charging works on all of them. If get a Raven, be sure it says CCS enabled on the features screen if this is important to you. We live in a charger waste land, so any high speed charging helps even if EA or Charge Point CCS.
-More 'modern dash' But is is really? Seems like a simple twist on the 5 year old '3' design. I was impressed with the look the first time I saw it, until I realized it is just a morphing of the 3/y dash design ques to include a screen behind the wheel.
Same.
-Both chew through CV join axels. Just had both replaced at 15k on Refresh. But Raven had then done at 18k miles also when we had that car.
-Phantom braking exists and is annoying. Raven has Radar, but Tesla disabled in software as they were incapable of making it work as well as Mobile Eye system so all cars use Vision.
-Auto Wipers Suck. But manual control is better on Raven, so I guess wipers suck more on Refresh.
-Auto highbeams suck. Maybe a little better with last software release????
In general, the Refresh is a better car. Not a "10-month-of shutdown-to-make-the-changes" better, but is better. EXCEPT for all the user interface deficiencies brought on by the Yoke and lack of stalks. Sure can change Yoke out, but this have the missing stalks that made the Raven more enjoyable from an ergonomics standpoint.
Here is my ideal car:
A 2022, with Ultra-Sonics and following parts mash:
Steering wheel: Raven
Stalks: Raven
Sound System :Raven (Man, I miss you....)
Screen Direction: Raven
Dash side vents for window fog: Raven
Sound Insulation: Refresh (It's noticeably quieter and that means ALOT)
Heat Pump: Refresh for 20-50 deg F days
Suspension ride quality: Raven
Dash design: Refresh. (5 year old from '3' vs 11 year old from the 'S')
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also not on either, but please add:
-Fix the Phantom braking
-Fix the CV join angle so I can use the power w/o damaging the car.
-Fix the Auto Headlights and wipers. Add a sensor if you have to.
. - Get ALL 'beta' features out of 'beta' before spend time move things around on the screen for no reason
-Give me a 360 deg surround camera.
-Matrix headlights that actually 'dip' for oncoming cars and are useful as true matrix lights were designed to do (not just spell TESLA on the wall).
-How about a camera rear-view mirror
-'Real' soft leather seating
-And how about that coast-to-coast self driving car from 2016?
If the price was right, I don't have a problem with a Raven (other than CV joins but that's all MX). With Raven, later is better. Heck, we were going to keep our Raven and were going to flip the new one as it took soo long for the Refresh to come it. But the trade value was so high and we got a new car with new warrantee for basically nothing. Hard to pass up new. Bye-bye Raven.
If going Raven, I would get a 9-2020, 10-2020 (late 2020 Model) or 11-2020, 12-2020 (2021 model) (they only made 2021 from 11-2020 to Dec 24th 2022 then shut down for 10 months to do refresh. But back in 9-2020, the battery became an 'H' rev on the 2020s and was upped from 351 to 371 miles EPA. NO changes from Sept or Oct 2020 to the Nov, Dec 2021 MX. Most dealers have no idea what they have, have to get build date and your own knowledge.
If getting a Refresh, early 10-2021 -->5-2022 had computer overheating problems with the touch screen. Warrantee is fix available. These had no radar but ultra-Sonics. Now they are on HW4 but pulled the ultra-sonics for $$$ savings.
Hope this helps.
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You missed that as of January 2023 the Refresh front doors do not automatically present anymore. They open a tiny bit and you have to yank them open every time. Absolutely dumb.
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This is stupid. Nothing like going backwards in features. Would there be a setting that's overlooked or a faulty sensor you think? I know if I pass from the front to the back of the driver door, it only opens just a smidgen, then when I clear the door, it opens all the way on our 2018MX.
No USS means the car won’t know if there’s a pole, person, or vehicle that the door is about to whack. So it just stays slightly ajar.
ptronus31
Model X LR, Ultra Red, White
Well, I have to agree this is stupid, but the plan is to replace both the door sensors and bumper sensors with vision in a software update "coming soon" (Elon time).
I own both. I would keep the older ones. The only benefit is the warranty on the refresh car. It's fun with faster charging (when you have v3 available. But not a problem on the original).
I love the automatic doors. And those suck on the refresh cars. The new BLE system is not as good. So it doesn't open the doors correctly . The older X is magic with those doors.
The other benefits are the look. The refresh door panels looks like *sugar*. The interior looks like a model 3. Ugly. We laughed when BMW and Mercedes put the screens the same ways in 2015.
And if you have a raven, you can easily put the Alcantara dash on it. Makes the car looks so much better / exclusive.
The new rear fender also looks like *sugar*. I hope the older ones fits. Going to replace mine if it does
I love the automatic doors. And those suck on the refresh cars. The new BLE system is not as good. So it doesn't open the doors correctly . The older X is magic with those doors.
The other benefits are the look. The refresh door panels looks like *sugar*. The interior looks like a model 3. Ugly. We laughed when BMW and Mercedes put the screens the same ways in 2015.
And if you have a raven, you can easily put the Alcantara dash on it. Makes the car looks so much better / exclusive.
The new rear fender also looks like *sugar*. I hope the older ones fits. Going to replace mine if it does
Cannot comment on the 2021, never had one. But my 2022 refresh definitely the USS.
NJturtlePower
Living the Dream, Driving the Future!
NJturtlePower
Living the Dream, Driving the Future!
Yeah its a great page to keep bookmarked.
Points out all the nitty gritty hardware changes between the generations...lots of little things even owners overlook.
I’ve owned all 3 generations of the X. 2016 90D, 2019 Raven LR, and now a 22 Plaid. Get the refresh. Like others have stated the build quality is much better as the iterations pass.
Went from 2019 Raven to 2022 refresh. Liked the Raven, but the Refresh is even better.
Faster charging, quieter interior with dual pane glass and active noise suppression (helps when on rough roads). Ventilated seats are nice, fit & finish better (but still not perfect). Find the yoke to be better for highway cruising, and it really opens up the spacious feeling of the interior. Much nicer looking wheels and I like the blacked out trim. Yoke is not as good for slow parking manouvers, but I have gotten pretty good at that as well.
Range is better, and combined with faster charging makes long distance cruising a better experience.
Big kicker is that the current X has much lower pricing ($79,995) and qualifies for the $7,500 Tax Credit. A great value right now. Previous premium colors now free and other inducements to buy new.
Believe the Refresh has better battery technology and improved driveline motors etc.
Bottom line is that both models were impressive to me. Refresh is the latest and greatest.
Faster charging, quieter interior with dual pane glass and active noise suppression (helps when on rough roads). Ventilated seats are nice, fit & finish better (but still not perfect). Find the yoke to be better for highway cruising, and it really opens up the spacious feeling of the interior. Much nicer looking wheels and I like the blacked out trim. Yoke is not as good for slow parking manouvers, but I have gotten pretty good at that as well.
Range is better, and combined with faster charging makes long distance cruising a better experience.
Big kicker is that the current X has much lower pricing ($79,995) and qualifies for the $7,500 Tax Credit. A great value right now. Previous premium colors now free and other inducements to buy new.
Believe the Refresh has better battery technology and improved driveline motors etc.
Bottom line is that both models were impressive to me. Refresh is the latest and greatest.
Thank you for the detailed breakdown! I currently have a Raven and wondering about making the switch to refresh, but it's really a hard sell without USS (I used heavily, daily), the stalks (love, especially for more complicated maneuvers like K-turns), and no nanny cam for FSD in Raven. Does anyone regret going to the refresh?
