Did Tesla lose focus by making the Model 3 an autonomous car instead of a great EV?

[AustinPowers]

During part 1 of the reveal Elon didn't say it would be the best EV for 35k, he said it would be the best CAR for 35k. He was very specific that this had to be a compelling car to beat out other ICE cars not just a compelling EV.

The latest series of tweets is what's making everyone question that vision. Of course more official details/clarification by Tesla would be nice - and soon.

Actually, I don't see too much appeal in the Model 3 anymore to be absolutely honest. The German carmakers will definitely be laughing their asses of for a while longer (which is very annoying, to say the least). But a Model 3 in the state that those tweets describe is nothing to be afraid of for those companies' lineups.

Barebones interior? No HUD or even proper dash? Main focus on autonomy - a technology that isn't even road legal in most countries yet? No fully loaded versions at launch?

Honestly, if I want a watered down Model S with almost none of the goodies, I can also get an Ampera-e or a 200 mile Zoe. What do I need a Model 3 for anymore? SCs? They're not free anymore either.

What good reason is there to still get a Model 3???

I am so angry I regret coming here today. If I hadn't, at least I could have slept well tonight.
Tesla-news-wise this is the worst day for me since I started taking notice of the company many years ago.

 

[Lobstahz]

Perhaps a fairer question is "Has Tesla's emphasis on autonomous driving diminished its primary mission".

We don't know the quality of the model 3. But Tesla's stumble on the model X did correspond with their rise of interest in autonomous driving.

I think this hits the nail on the head. Tesla's primary mission has been to rapidly transition transportation to a sustainable alternative. The autonomy stuff is super cool, and once fully refined will be absolutely amazing. But we're in a bridge period, and Tesla has been winning people over with being a great CAR that happened to be electric, not a great EV that beat the other EVs.

Going to a center display only is, to me, making the car into a 'weird-mobile' which Elon has stated he won't produce. Crappy cars I'd never consider have only center displays, Toyota Yarris, Prius, Saturn and I'm sure some others. None of those cars are anywhere close to the "BMW 3 series" competitor that Elon has mentioned as the target for the Model 3.

I'm worried they're focused too far on the long term goal, and not on making fantastic cars as people use them currently.

 

[AustinPowers]

I think people should reserve judgment until the reveal of the final product. Much of what I'm reading is fearful speculation.

What speculation? Elon has confirmed that a lot of what he promised at Reveal Part 1 will not happen as he had made everyone believe:

- fully loaded versions first? Nope
- production interior different? Nope
- spaceship like controls? Nope
- HUD (i.e. new consumer facing tech)? Nope

There's no fear needed. Anger is what I feel very much now, and a damn lot of it.
I can picture the reactions of all the people I tried to excite for a Model 3 as well over here. They will all go "see, we told you so. Why did you bother with Tesla in the first place".
And the German sales numbers will stay as low as they have been, which as a TSLA stockholder makes me even more angry, as it would have been so great to beat our local carmakers on their home soil with a great BEV for the "masses". Now people will wait for the local offerings, which they still have more trust in (VW scandal notwithstanding). That's what makes me angry the most!

 

[Lobstahz]

Actually, I don't see too much appeal in the Model 3 anymore to be absolutely honest. The German carmakers will definitely be laughing their asses of for a while longer (which is very annoying, to say the least). But a Model 3 in the state that those tweets describe is nothing to be afraid of for those companies' lineups.

Barebones interior? No HUD or even proper dash? Main focus on autonomy - a technology that isn't even road legal in most countries yet? No fully loaded versions at launch?
<snip>

We're in the same boat. For the first time in many years I checked out what the competition is cooking and they're picking up speed quickly. Tesla set the market on the digital control cluster, that others are just now getting deployed in good numbers and they're going to abandon it?!

I can tell you that this Audi interior checks all the right boxes for me. I expected to get this in a Tesla but Audi is catching up and may actually deliver more 'space ship like' then Tesla

 

[AustinPowers]

Absolutely.

Tesla had the advantage in many areas where no competition seemed to be able to follow or catch up:

Superchargers for free => not free anymore, plus competition is planning a similar offering for their combined future fleet
Long range => competion is catching up quickly
Controls => competition has copied Tesla's button-less concept and are improving it in areas where Tesla still isn't up to spec.
Controls 2.0 (i.e. HUD/AR) => nothing from Tesla even on the horizon, competition ahead.

What USP has Tesla left? Autonomy? Apart from the fact that
a) it is not even legal yet in most countries
b) a lot people don't even want it

the competition also has lots of experience in that field. Tesla only rushed it to market first. Which isn't necessarily a good thing to be honest.

This is a very dark day imho for the future of Tesla.

 

[shrspeedblade]

Yes, agree completely about the blizzard of buttons that clutter most cars. However, given what Elon Musk often says, you'd expect Tesla's design philosophy to keep first principles in mind. And functionality is definitely one of those pesky first principles. Comparing a car his company is designing and building for people to drive with the experience of riding in a taxi is a syllogism at best.
First principles. They can do better. I hope they will.
Robin

I haven't given up/thrown in the towel yet. I get the impression like me you're a sports car guy and the experience of driving the car is critically important to me as well. We still have a RWD sports sedan on the way with great torque, an extremely low center of gravity, low polar moment of inertia, quite a bit lighter weight than Model S (guessing), shorter wheelbase, and probably some other things I'm not thinking of at the moment. Considering what's at stake I don't think we're going to get a bland transportation pod (are you listening Chevrolet?) It damn well better be something I love flinging down a twisty road but also love letting drive for me in stop and go traffic!

It will be interesting to see what comes up when some driving reviews come in!

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Wow, @AustinPowers is really laying it down...

Little old me, I would just like Tesla to implement (again) a trunk cover for the Model X. Is that too much to ask? Never mind HUDs and 360 views that the competition has had for years... they've had trunk covers for decades!

I foresee doom for Tesla until a Model X trunk cover is implemented again.

 

[Wolverinegeoff]

We're in the same boat. For the first time in many years I checked out what the competition is cooking and they're picking up speed quickly. Tesla set the market on the digital control cluster, that others are just now getting deployed in good numbers and they're going to abandon it?!

I can tell you that this Audi interior checks all the right boxes for me. I expected to get this in a Tesla but Audi is catching up and may actually deliver more 'space ship like' then TeslaView attachment 219903

Not sure it's fair to be comparing a $35k interior to a future car that starts at least close to $55k before you add the options pictured. Model S will get the interior doohickeys and tech. Model 3 will be faster than a regular sports car when you want to play with it, and get you to work on its own while you type angry responses on TMC forums during your drive.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Not sure it's fair to be comparing a $35k interior to a future car that starts at least close to $55k before you add the options pictured. Model S will get the interior doohickeys and tech. Model 3 will be faster than a regular sports car when you want to play with it, and get you to work on its own while you type angry responses on TMC forums during your drive.

Well. Tesla also has the same interior issues and comparison woes in their expensive models.

It is not a cost thing. It is an experience and culture thing.

 

[N5329K]

I haven't given up/thrown in the towel yet. I get the impression like me you're a sports car guy and the experience of driving the car is critically important to me as well. We still have a RWD sports sedan on the way with great torque, an extremely low center of gravity, low polar moment of inertia, quite a bit lighter weight than Model S (guessing), shorter wheelbase, and probably some other things I'm not thinking of at the moment. Considering what's at stake I don't think we're going to get a bland transportation pod (are you listening Chevrolet?) It damn well better be something I love flinging down a twisty road but also love letting drive for me in stop and go traffic!

It will be interesting to see what comes up when some driving reviews come in!

Yes, I still enjoy driving and don't see my Model 3 (if I get the one I reserved) as a transportation solution, or as a potential moneymaker through putting it out for autonomous hire. It's a car. To be driven. Right by the Chevron station. Never to stop.
So it just might not be the right solution for me. Maybe my 86 year old mother-in-law would enjoy riding in her own taxi to her yoga lessons.
This is what I drive for fun (at 75HP, it's a ridiculous grins to power ratio).

Robin

 

[calisnow]

With the recent revelations, it seems like Tesla may have lost focus and put too much effort into making the Model 3 an autonomous vehicle first and an EV second rather than making it the very best EV for $35,000. The lack of the center screen is the first and most obvious clue to this.

Thoughts?

My thoughts are you do not understand the larger picture and where the world is headed - you don't have a handle on the zeitgeist and what drives people's dreams right now - and thus sales. For a lesson in what happens when you focus on EV and not "autonomy" see Chevy Bolt and its massive success.

 

[Lobstahz]

Not sure it's fair to be comparing a $35k interior to a future car that starts at least close to $55k before you add the options pictured. Model S will get the interior doohickeys and tech. Model 3 will be faster than a regular sports car when you want to play with it, and get you to work on its own while you type angry responses on TMC forums during your drive.

The Model 3 competes head on with the A4. The A4 doesn't have it as a standard feature, and I don't expect it to be standard at 35K in the Model 3 either, but like the A4, there should be a way to get it as an addon. I have no problem paying for features, but it should be possible in this tier of car

Audi A4 Order Guide:
https://www.audiusa.com/content/dam/audiusa/Models/A4_2017/17A4b_rX_lowres2.pdf

 

[calisnow]

Does the mass market really want this?

View attachment 219809

Yes, I believe it does.

 

[calisnow]

Doing things different for the same of doing it different. Finding solutions to non-existent problems - Teslas niche?

What solutions to non-existent problems has Tesla found? OKAY OKAY - with the exception of falcon wing doors.

 

[Wolverinegeoff]

The Model 3 competes head on with the A4. The A4 doesn't have it as a standard feature, and I don't expect it to be standard at 35K in the Model 3 either, but like the A4, there should be a way to get it as an addon. I have no problem paying for features, but it should be possible in this tier of car

Audi A4 Order Guide:
https://www.audiusa.com/content/dam/audiusa/Models/A4_2017/17A4b_rX_lowres2.pdf

Yes, but the interior you linked above was for a 2018 S5, presumably fully loaded, which is what car companies show in promotional materials (which Audi does very well!) To get up to AP 1.0 self driving tech in an A4, you have to start with prestige edition and option up close to $50k. This also includes a HUD, and the Audi is a clearly great car. Tesla is more focused on self driving features on this car, so that's what they went with, and I'd imagine it will easily surpass anything the A4 has by release. I personally think a HUD is cool, but also gimmicky, which is why they've been around for years and never caught on. Tesla also made it clear they are focusing on ease of manufacturing, and having a ton of little add on features like a HUD unit just slows down the dreadnaught for now until they can design Factory 1.0 as Elon calls the next one!

 

[Lobstahz]

Yes, but the interior you linked above was for a 2018 S5, presumably fully loaded, which is what car companies show in promotional materials (which Audi does very well!) To get up to AP 1.0 self driving tech in an A4, you have to start with prestige edition and option up close to $50k. This also includes a HUD, and the Audi is a clearly great car. Tesla is more focused on self driving features on this car, so that's what they went with, and I'd imagine it will easily surpass anything the A4 has by release. I personally think a HUD is cool, but also gimmicky, which is why they've been around for years and never caught on. Tesla also made it clear they are focusing on ease of manufacturing, and having a ton of little add on features like a HUD unit just slows down the dreadnaught for now until they can design Factory 1.0 as Elon calls the next one!

I think we're getting off on a bit of a tangent and our conversation is wandering

All I'm trying to say is that the competition that Tesla/Elon have identified is the 3 series and small luxury segment. The competition in the segment may out-tech the tech-car-company if they do not offer these features, even as an addon/extra cost. All I want is an instrument cluster of some flavor infront of the driver.

The removal of easy driver information in the form of the instrument cluster signals to me that the Model 3 is to be a much more utilitarian BEV than I believed Tesla would build. If I wanted a soulless unconnected electric travel pod I can buy one from the other guys. Tesla was supposed to be different, I'm fearful they're making it too utilitarian and potentially uninspired for the purpose of fast production. If that's the case this day 1 reservation holder will be on the sidelines awaiting a different option.

 

[Wolverinegeoff]

I think we're getting off on a bit of a tangent and our conversation is wandering

All I'm trying to say is that the competition that Tesla/Elon have identified is the 3 series and small luxury segment. The competition in the segment may out-tech the tech-car-company if they do not offer these features, even as an addon/extra cost. All I want is an instrument cluster of some flavor infront of the driver.

The removal of easy driver information in the form of the instrument cluster signals to me that the Model 3 is to be a much more utilitarian BEV than I believed Tesla would build. If I wanted a soulless unconnected electric travel pod I can buy one from the other guys. Tesla was supposed to be different, I'm fearful they're making it too utilitarian and potentially uninspired for the purpose of fast production. If that's the case this day 1 reservation holder will be on the sidelines awaiting a different option.

Understandable! Hopefully you'll get a shot to check it out in person before you pull the trigger. Good luck making your decision!

 

[ziradman]

Rhetorical question? Thoughts?

 

[Gen3Joe]

To answer OP's question, I think yes. I don't really care about autopilot. I want a driver's car and have been waiting over 10 years to have the chance to get one that is an EV Will I upgrade to AP down the road? Probably but it's not a priority for me. What I liked most about Tesla though was their performance focus. Something that nobody is really talking about is that the fastest model 3 won't touch the model S in acceleration. I was really hoping that was not going to be the case (a la BMW M3 vs. M5). I look forward to seeing the final specs. If the 0-60 for all wheel drive ludicrous is not in the low 3's at least I'm going to be disappointed.

 

[Foxhound199]

For a lesson in what happens when you focus on EV and not "autonomy" see Chevy Bolt and its massive success.

The Bolt will struggle because it looks like a cheap Chevy and it's priced like an A4. All the Model 3 has to do is be a car that people love to drive.