Did you see the Tesla Model S in the Cadillac Commercial?

[McRat]

I'm sure all the other Caddys out there are better than my rental, but this rental has put a bad taste in my mouth. I'd never buy one. It's sooo sloow. I guess I just can't get over the instant torque vs waiting for the engine to spool up.

Getting back on topic though, super cruise is probably better than AP. Hell, the Adaptive Cruise Control in my Mitsubishi PHEV is even better than AP. But, AP will get better...slowly. I would say AP will be at parity with Super Cruise in 3 months maybe, 6 months definitely.

Some folk on this board think I'm either a GM spokeshole or an EV hater. Neither is the case.

In real world traffic, even our Volts are quicker than the Caddy. On paper the Caddy is much quicker, but in urban use with traffic, EV powertrains are far better and easier to deal with.

I prefer EV powertrains and logged over 90% of my miles since 2013 on juice. The Caddy's have the my wife's choices. She was given the option of a Model S P series, and she still doesn't trust them. She is not alone, but this resistance will fade with time. She's actually excited I'm getting the Jaguar i-Pace, and she drives the Volts without complaint, but likes her Caddy more, especially for long trips. The seats are very nice.

Compared to other ICE vehicles, the Caddys are solid performers when you put the spurs to them, which is all I was saying.

 

[McRat]

Cadillac will option more models for Super Cruise, then add V2X (Vehicle to Other Systems) to most cars. Some other GMs will be getting it as well. V2V was started in 2017.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/6/17433810/cadillac-super-cruise-expands-2020-gm

 

[Tomayr]

I wonder if you actually do work for GM. You certainly are on the ball spitting out positive PR for super cruise. A Cadillac is a Cadillac, and unfortunately for GM 50+ years of marketing the product to a certain demographic (That is dieing btw) has its toll and effect. It will be quite some time before the brand gets turned around and spun towards a younger demographic. The future buyers (millennials, etc) would never even consider stepping foot in a Cadillac sedan over a Tesla, its just not even on the same planet as far as they are concerned, and most likely are even completely oblivious to the fact they even exist.

This is the same issue GM has with Buick, hence the commercials that are attempting to change the same image.

I think your major mistake is comparing a lego company like GM that has been in the business for so long that they lost the vision and innovation. All of their vehicles may look different, but they all share the same lego blocks. There is not one vehicle in the entire GM lineup that does not share components and parts with another. When is the last time you have seen a company like GM manufacture a completely fresh vehicle like a Model 3 from the ground up? Having had 20+ cars, I have never owned a car that has clever solutions to engineering problems around every corner, and they are mostly unique to the model 3.

 

[wdolson]

At this point the only thing keeping the Buick nameplate alive is China. Buicks are very prestigious there because the last emperor collected them. I believe Lincoln and Cadillac are only profitable because of China too.

The Model 3 isn't 100% new from the Model S/X. For one the AP suite is the same across all three cars. There are probably other parts shared too and I expect the Model S and X will be upgraded to use parts from the Model 3 soon. Sharing parts across different cars makes good economic sense. Though Tesla is more aggressive about innovation in each car. That's why the Model X and 3 have had such bad teething problems.

When I was car shopping, I looked at a lot of cars in the $30-$40K range and I was surprised how little had changed since the last time I bought a car (1992). The infortainment systems and safety features were very different, but in a lot of ways modern ICE and hybrids were worse cars. Then I found Tesla and it was dramatically better. So much I forked out a heck of a lot more money for a Model S.

My engineer brain just explodes when I think about the dramatic improvements and I can't explain them to non-engineers.

 

[McRat]

I wonder if you actually do work for GM. You certainly are on the ball spitting out positive PR for super cruise. A Cadillac is a Cadillac, and unfortunately for GM 50+ years of marketing the product to a certain demographic (That is dieing btw) has its toll and effect. It will be quite some time before the brand gets turned around and spun towards a younger demographic. The future buyers (millennials, etc) would never even consider stepping foot in a Cadillac sedan over a Tesla, its just not even on the same planet as far as they are concerned, and most likely are even completely oblivious to the fact they even exist.

This is the same issue GM has with Buick, hence the commercials that are attempting to change the same image.

I think your major mistake is comparing a lego company like GM that has been in the business for so long that they lost the vision and innovation. All of their vehicles may look different, but they all share the same lego blocks. There is not one vehicle in the entire GM lineup that does not share components and parts with another. When is the last time you have seen a company like GM manufacture a completely fresh vehicle like a Model 3 from the ground up? Having had 20+ cars, I have never owned a car that has clever solutions to engineering problems around every corner, and they are mostly unique to the model 3.

Purely informational. I've done more work for Tesla and SpaceX than General Motors. General Motors never sponsored any of my racing either.

The revolution at Cadillac started in 1999 just so you know. First the Escalade then the CTS. By late 2008 the CTS-V was in the second generation and set the lap record at Nurburgring for a 4 door, faster than most performance coupes. GM did not use a professional race car driver, did not use the manual transmission version, and Heinricy (Engineer and director of GM Performance) did not use the paddle shifter, just the factory algorithm. OK, so he does race as a hobby, but that's pretty much most of GM's management staff.

I suppose if you are not exposed to automotive technology very often, it seems like a 2010 car is the same as today's cars. Hint - they are not even close.

We live in an era of affordable 200mph cars and 1.2g of lateral grip and 90' braking distances and 10 airbags. The are safer and cleaner and faster than at any time in history, and it shows no signs of letting up. The drawback is cars are getting heavy and expensive at the same rate.

Just watch the parade. Or go do some laps in a CTS-V or ATS-V. It's cheap and fun. V-Performance Driver Training | Cadillac

These events are a riot. Big Ass GoKarts. And freakin' fast. Mat it at 100, and it scrambles. No, not talking kmh.

 

[Lukez]

I wonder if you actually do work for GM. You certainly are on the ball spitting out positive PR for super cruise. A Cadillac is a Cadillac, and unfortunately for GM 50+ years of marketing the product to a certain demographic (That is dieing btw) has its toll and effect. It will be quite some time before the brand gets turned around and spun towards a younger demographic. The future buyers (millennials, etc) would never even consider stepping foot in a Cadillac sedan over a Tesla, its just not even on the same planet as far as they are concerned, and most likely are even completely oblivious to the fact they even exist.

This is the same issue GM has with Buick, hence the commercials that are attempting to change the same image.

I think your major mistake is comparing a lego company like GM that has been in the business for so long that they lost the vision and innovation. All of their vehicles may look different, but they all share the same lego blocks. There is not one vehicle in the entire GM lineup that does not share components and parts with another. When is the last time you have seen a company like GM manufacture a completely fresh vehicle like a Model 3 from the ground up? Having had 20+ cars, I have never owned a car that has clever solutions to engineering problems around every corner, and they are mostly unique to the model 3.

Have you actually ever torn down any part of your Tesla or seen any of the tear downs? Most of the parts that make up a Tesla are "lego's" as you call them. Lots of parts from all different auto makers, lego'd into a Tesla!
Oh and since you hate Cadillacs so much....those fancy "Tesla" brembo brakes stopping your ass are actually a 2004 Cadillac part. That's right, your state of the art car uses a 2004 design from a Cadillac LOL

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

DOH!! Describing even a V6 Cad as slow isn't really accurate. The idea he thought the V8's were dogs was laughable.
Overpowered perhaps for some folk, but slow isn't very accurate.

I autocross against a CTS-V (that has now been modded and in ESP class) and I am pretty sure a P85 is a better car for auto X than a CTS-V
The CTS sounds pretty nice when it opens up and it is a pretty close match but the Tesla is quicker
...Big track CTS & M3 >Tesla

 

[McRat]

I autocross against a CTS-V (that has now been modded and in ESP class) and I am pretty sure a P85 is a better car for auto X than a CTS-V
The CTS sounds pretty nice when it opens up and it is a pretty close match but the Tesla is quicker
...Big track CTS & M3 >Tesla

AFAIK, both the Tesla Model S (all kinds) and the CTS-V are FS. The manual trans gen 2 CTS-V is good for a big car. Both the Tesla and the CTS-V are hampered by their weight and width. But it's mostly driver regardless. A prepped Miata will hose either car.

 

[Tomayr]

At this point the only thing keeping the Buick nameplate alive is China. Buicks are very prestigious there because the last emperor collected them. I believe Lincoln and Cadillac are only profitable because of China too.

The Model 3 isn't 100% new from the Model S/X. For one the AP suite is the same across all three cars. There are probably other parts shared too and I expect the Model S and X will be upgraded to use parts from the Model 3 soon. Sharing parts across different cars makes good economic sense. Though Tesla is more aggressive about innovation in each car. That's why the Model X and 3 have had such bad teething problems.

When I was car shopping, I looked at a lot of cars in the $30-$40K range and I was surprised how little had changed since the last time I bought a car (1992). The infortainment systems and safety features were very different, but in a lot of ways modern ICE and hybrids were worse cars. Then I found Tesla and it was dramatically better. So much I forked out a heck of a lot more money for a Model S.

My engineer brain just explodes when I think about the dramatic improvements and I can't explain them to non-engineers.

From a product manufacturing standpoint it is 100% new. They share some software, but not much. Every model 3 printed board has "Model 3 stamped on it and is vastly different from anything seen before. From a new model car perspective, the model 3 shares no parts with its brothers. the S and the X. Even the battery cells are different. Good luck finding that at any other car company. Many manufactures share "Platforms" and drivetrains, as well as a multitude of other parts from model to model.

 

[Tomayr]

Have you actually ever torn down any part of your Tesla or seen any of the tear downs? Most of the parts that make up a Tesla are "lego's" as you call them. Lots of parts from all different auto makers, lego'd into a Tesla!
Oh and since you hate Cadillacs so much....those fancy "Tesla" brembo brakes stopping your ass are actually a 2004 Cadillac part. That's right, your state of the art car uses a 2004 design from a Cadillac LOL

You must not read too well. When I say legos, I mean GM scattering their power plants into a multitude of brands. You can find a LS motor original to the vette in anything from a Cadillac to a Trailblazer SS.
I do not hate Cadillacs, in fact my other half works for GM, I have nothing against the brand, but it is very much dated and does not compare to Tesla.

As for Brembo Brakes.
Know what you are talking about before you start posting fake news. The only thing a Brembo caliper on a model S shares with a 2004 Cadillac is Pad size and front casing. The Piston Arrangement and size is different (CTS-V has 40mm/44mm) while the S is square 40/40, hence why they are in the same category for compatibility. You will find if you go to larger Brembo Caliper, you will share the same pad size as many factory Ferraris. This is also true to other performance brake manufactures. (Stoptech, Wilwood, etc.)
Pad size is usually stipulated by vehicle weight. CTS-V and Model S are right in the same category.

 

[Tomayr]

Purely informational. I've done more work for Tesla and SpaceX than General Motors. General Motors never sponsored any of my racing either.

I would love to know what work you did for Tesla or SpaceX.

I suppose if you are not exposed to automotive technology very often, it seems like a 2010 car is the same as today's cars. Hint - they are not even close.
.

I have several cars, I am very exposed. I actually just sold my race car that I did Time Attack in competitively as well as some road racing. I put the car together myself and regularly work on modern cars, boats, atvs, etc. In fact I put together a nice LifeP04 Battery pack for my RV, and am working on installing a purely CANBUS driven Volvo diesel in my boat.

 

[wdolson]

From a product manufacturing standpoint it is 100% new. They share some software, but not much. Every model 3 printed board has "Model 3 stamped on it and is vastly different from anything seen before. From a new model car perspective, the model 3 shares no parts with its brothers. the S and the X. Even the battery cells are different. Good luck finding that at any other car company. Many manufactures share "Platforms" and drivetrains, as well as a multitude of other parts from model to model.

I still expect the Model S and X will be getting parts from the Model 3. Right now Tesla is completely focused on getting the Model 3 production smoothed out, but there are rumors of an S/X refresh coming. A lot of the Model S refresh was incorporating parts and tech from the Model X into the S.

Right now the question of which is better the Model S or Model 3 is murky. The S has some things the 3 doesn't, but the 3 is more advanced in a lot of ways. Model S sales are still decently strong because of the Model 3 backlog and you can still get free supercharging, but once the wait times for a Model 3 get down closer to an S, S sales could plummet. The S is vastly more expensive for not that much more car. They have to get the S upgraded to a point where the 3 has very few, if any advantages over the S other than price and possibly smaller size.

It probably won't happen with the next refresh, but I expect eventually the Model S will get a new body which will be based on an enlarged Model 3.

 

[McRat]

I would love to know what work you did for Tesla or SpaceX.


I have several cars, I am very exposed. I actually just sold my race car that I did Time Attack in competitively as well as some road racing. I put the car together myself and regularly work on modern cars, boats, atvs, etc. In fact I put together a nice LifeP04 Battery pack for my RV, and am working on installing a purely CANBUS driven Volvo diesel in my boat.

1) Manufacturing related.

2) Then you should know how much cars have changed this decade and this century.

3) You should have used a Duramax. There is already a OBDII harness & ECM for engine swaps. Joe is the pilot and Dan is data logging.

 

[Tomayr]

1) Manufacturing related.

2) Then you should know how much cars have changed this decade and this century.

3) You should have used a Duramax. There is already a OBDII harness & ECM for engine swaps. Joe is the pilot and Dan is data logging.

Duramax is way too heavy for my application. I am using a D3-220hp Volvo Penta.

 

[somnambule]

In the end; on the highway, in an area the Caddy’s Supercruise would actually work, it did seem to perform better.

It’s not very scalable to other roadways though. It seems to be destined for highway usage only. Not something I would see as revolutionary, or future oriented. Again, poor vision.

Tesla has work to do, but once perfected, it will be scalable and usable everywhere.
Vision.

I wouldn't trade my Model S for a CT6 anytime soon but let's give credit where it's due.

Cadillac's parent General Motors (GM) has a two-pronged strategy for driving assists. Super Cruise is intended to be a driving aid on previously-mapped highways and every review I've seen suggests it's very good at that. It may very well be the best driver assist on the market at the moment for highway use.

Super Cruise is not meant to scale to all roads and full self-driving. For that, GM seems to be working on a separate solution based on their Cruise Automation acquisition. That system is not on sale yet but what I've seen on the web suggests that system might very well be the furthest along in terms of self-driving development among automakers (including Tesla's). Sure, GM is spending more money developing two separate systems but that might give them the best Level 2 driving assist in Super Cruise and a head start on Level 4 and 5 self-driving.

GM has a long history of innovation, pioneering a bunch of industry firsts including self-starting, 4-wheel brakes, automatic transmission, airbags, and night vision (for cars). In fact, GM apparently had prototypes (Firebird II and Cadillac Cyclone) way back in the 1950s that experimented with self-driving and radar-based crash avoidance. It would be great to see them get back to their innovative ways. Progress is good, whoever it comes from.

 

[Mobius484]

Overall, the commercial is really cheesy and on par with auto advertising crap. The worst was the Jeep commercials with the jeeps driving up the creek... I live somewhere where I use my 4x4 on a regular basis, for most my adult life because I need it for safety, not to tear s#^*t up for fun, that one made me sick... Cadillac makes some top shelf vehicles, no question there, but this is just cheesy advertising. The system probably works pretty damn well, but the underlying concept is very different from what Tesla is doing. I love driving my Tesla, using AP is a tool for me, and it works better than anything I could have dreamed about as a kid, or even a couple years ago...