Thanks, I'll be sure to post an update. I feel much better that others have experienced similar and that there are fixes to the other issues. The range thing seems to be fixable through changing my driving style. It is also evident that I need to pray that Tesla Heathrow are a good dealer!!
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Thanks, I'll be sure to post an update. I feel much better that others have experienced similar and that there are fixes to the other issues. The range thing seems to be fixable through changing my driving style. It is also evident that I need to pray that Tesla Heathrow are a good dealer!!
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Kudos to you for keeping an open mind.
That's increasingly rare in this world, sadly.And a belated welcome to the forum.
Thanks for your empathy!
The wipers don't seem to perform the same all the time on the same setting (might be my imagination) but they just don't do a great job of clearing the windows despite me using the same detergent/cleaning chemicals. Not a huge issue though to be fair.
jgs
Active Member
Not sure if that was addressed to the crowd or to an individual. Assuming it was the former, I'll say that just like everyone else I get less range in winter than summer. Even if you turn off cabin heat and somehow eliminate battery heating as a factor, there's still the issue of cold air being denser than warm air, so this is unavoidable, and of course I do use cabin heat. My observations as I drive through my third Michigan (quite cold, relative to the UK) winter --
- Economy for in-town driving is substantially worse, e.g. I see in the 300s in summer, often 400s in winter or even into the 500s on short trips when very cold and snowy.
- But, this is fine, because I never need anywhere close to the full range if all I'm doing is in-town trips. I've never needed so much as a midday top-up.
- Economy for highway driving is only somewhat worse seasonally, e.g. I see 270-330 in summer, 340-380 in winter.
- This isn't a problem in practice, it adds a few minutes to Supercharging stops.
I kept the vehicle.
Hi, @Wilsonuk,
I'm a happy owner first of a '13 P85+, then traded in for a '16 P100D, both build-to-order.
Your problems #2, #3, #4 and #5 should be cured by a single visit to a Service Center. While build quality is way up since 2013, door handles (#3), condensation (#4) and fit (#5) continue to be mentioned from time to time in this forum. Issue #2 is completely new to me (I've been on this forum since June '13); not saying it hasn't happened to anyone else; but I haven't seen it mentioned before.
Issue #8 (calendar) should also be resolved during your Service Center visit. Just ask someone there to help you connect it up. If/when it fails to connect, then the burden will be on them right then and there to fix it or help you fix your end of it, whichever applies.
Issue #9 may also be curable in that Service Center visit, but this is the first time I'm hearing someone say the rollers on the steering wheel are too easy to move.
I don't understand the point you are trying to make with issue #10.
As for issues #6 and #7, relating to Autopilot and Autopark... first, they are basically both beta products, for a very generous definition of beta. I have both features and turn them on occasionally to see what has improved. There are people on the forum for whom the Autopilot features work well enough that they swear by AP and drive 1000s of miles on it. Me, I think there are too many corner cases. I have been willing to pay for AutoPilot but not the additional money for Full Self Driving. Personally, despite paying for it, I just don't use it. Maybe it'll improve enough during the lifetime of my ownership that I'll change my mind, but that's where I am today.
That said, I quibble with your comparison with a VW Passat 8 years ago. That comparison is heavily dependent on a colleague's memory. If you could get that Passat today and compare it side-by-side with the Tesla, I'd be more inclined to accept the comparison.
As for issue #1, while driving at 80 mph may be the normal on your motorways, when compared to the US highways where people are frequently doing 55-60, you're going to spend a lot more "fuel". This would be true in a gasoline-based vehicle as well as in an EV. If I recall correctly, wind resistance increases as the square of velocity. So 80 mph has way more resistance to overcome than 70 mph, and so in turn 70 versus 60. Rated miles are calculated by Tesla software with something like 280 Wh/mile; I wouldn't be surprised if you're consuming more like 375-400 Wh/mile. Throw in effects of cold, which reduce battery performance and ability to accept regenerated energy as well as requiring battery heating and cabin heating, and you could see a range reduction of 20-25% from temperature and the remainder from speed.
There is an energy app built in to the car's software. You might try setting the nav/GPS for a destination -- say, 30 or 40 miles away from your home -- and then watching the energy app to see how your actual energy use matches against the nav's prediction. You'll be able to see the effect of choosing to drive at, say, 60 mph instead of 80 mph... or the change in energy consumption when the battery finally heats up maybe 15-20 minutes after you begin to drive.
Which brings us to issue #5 (handling). IMHO, this issue is the only one on your list that I regard as make-or-break. You should call this issue to the attention of the Service Center and then pay attention to what they tell you when they're done with it. Then you should observe the behavior after the SC has had its chance to opine and/or fix. If you continue to be unhappy with the handling, then I think you will be much better served by selling or trading this vehicle and purchasing one that better suits your driving needs. It doesn't matter what anyone else in the world thinks about the handling of a Tesla Model S. In this regard, it is *only* YOUR opinion that matters. It's a primary safety issue, so if you're not satisfied, then I believe you need to move on.
In relation to issue #5, there is the matter of your tires. I am assuming that you are operating on stock OEM all-season tires that came with the vehicle as you purchased it and that these tires are in good condition with a good amount of tread remaining. If you are operating in temperatures consistently at or below, say, 45 degrees F, then you may benefit significantly from switching to a winter tire with rubber better optimized for the prevailing temperatures. Your handling will be affected significantly.
For me, this car and this company are exceptional. There is no other EV in the world that can replace an ICE for short- and long-range travel. There is no **CAR** in the world that can match the safety, handling, acceleration, load capacity, seating capacity and other characteristics of my P100D (or my P85+ before that). All the while generating no emissions (I'll leave the power plant argument for another time) and looking pretty. The car and its build process have issues but the service I've experienced has been remarkable, even awesome. It's the only car in the world for which I'd join an automotive enthusiast forum.
Apart from the handling issue that I regard as a safety issue, I view your issues as nit-picky. Not wrong; not wrong to want to have them fixed; but pretty small in the scheme of things. Heck, I myself have walked into a Tesla Service Center with a list of 22 or more issues ranging down a squeak in the dash and a wrinkle in the headliner, so I yield to no man on nit-picky-ness. But if these other issues so greatly diminish your enjoyment of the vehicle, perhaps you should consider returning to whatever manufacturer gave you happiness in the past.
Best of luck,
Alan
I'm a happy owner first of a '13 P85+, then traded in for a '16 P100D, both build-to-order.
Your problems #2, #3, #4 and #5 should be cured by a single visit to a Service Center. While build quality is way up since 2013, door handles (#3), condensation (#4) and fit (#5) continue to be mentioned from time to time in this forum. Issue #2 is completely new to me (I've been on this forum since June '13); not saying it hasn't happened to anyone else; but I haven't seen it mentioned before.
Issue #8 (calendar) should also be resolved during your Service Center visit. Just ask someone there to help you connect it up. If/when it fails to connect, then the burden will be on them right then and there to fix it or help you fix your end of it, whichever applies.
Issue #9 may also be curable in that Service Center visit, but this is the first time I'm hearing someone say the rollers on the steering wheel are too easy to move.
I don't understand the point you are trying to make with issue #10.
As for issues #6 and #7, relating to Autopilot and Autopark... first, they are basically both beta products, for a very generous definition of beta. I have both features and turn them on occasionally to see what has improved. There are people on the forum for whom the Autopilot features work well enough that they swear by AP and drive 1000s of miles on it. Me, I think there are too many corner cases. I have been willing to pay for AutoPilot but not the additional money for Full Self Driving. Personally, despite paying for it, I just don't use it. Maybe it'll improve enough during the lifetime of my ownership that I'll change my mind, but that's where I am today.
That said, I quibble with your comparison with a VW Passat 8 years ago. That comparison is heavily dependent on a colleague's memory. If you could get that Passat today and compare it side-by-side with the Tesla, I'd be more inclined to accept the comparison.
As for issue #1, while driving at 80 mph may be the normal on your motorways, when compared to the US highways where people are frequently doing 55-60, you're going to spend a lot more "fuel". This would be true in a gasoline-based vehicle as well as in an EV. If I recall correctly, wind resistance increases as the square of velocity. So 80 mph has way more resistance to overcome than 70 mph, and so in turn 70 versus 60. Rated miles are calculated by Tesla software with something like 280 Wh/mile; I wouldn't be surprised if you're consuming more like 375-400 Wh/mile. Throw in effects of cold, which reduce battery performance and ability to accept regenerated energy as well as requiring battery heating and cabin heating, and you could see a range reduction of 20-25% from temperature and the remainder from speed.
There is an energy app built in to the car's software. You might try setting the nav/GPS for a destination -- say, 30 or 40 miles away from your home -- and then watching the energy app to see how your actual energy use matches against the nav's prediction. You'll be able to see the effect of choosing to drive at, say, 60 mph instead of 80 mph... or the change in energy consumption when the battery finally heats up maybe 15-20 minutes after you begin to drive.
Which brings us to issue #5 (handling). IMHO, this issue is the only one on your list that I regard as make-or-break. You should call this issue to the attention of the Service Center and then pay attention to what they tell you when they're done with it. Then you should observe the behavior after the SC has had its chance to opine and/or fix. If you continue to be unhappy with the handling, then I think you will be much better served by selling or trading this vehicle and purchasing one that better suits your driving needs. It doesn't matter what anyone else in the world thinks about the handling of a Tesla Model S. In this regard, it is *only* YOUR opinion that matters. It's a primary safety issue, so if you're not satisfied, then I believe you need to move on.
In relation to issue #5, there is the matter of your tires. I am assuming that you are operating on stock OEM all-season tires that came with the vehicle as you purchased it and that these tires are in good condition with a good amount of tread remaining. If you are operating in temperatures consistently at or below, say, 45 degrees F, then you may benefit significantly from switching to a winter tire with rubber better optimized for the prevailing temperatures. Your handling will be affected significantly.
For me, this car and this company are exceptional. There is no other EV in the world that can replace an ICE for short- and long-range travel. There is no **CAR** in the world that can match the safety, handling, acceleration, load capacity, seating capacity and other characteristics of my P100D (or my P85+ before that). All the while generating no emissions (I'll leave the power plant argument for another time) and looking pretty. The car and its build process have issues but the service I've experienced has been remarkable, even awesome. It's the only car in the world for which I'd join an automotive enthusiast forum.
Apart from the handling issue that I regard as a safety issue, I view your issues as nit-picky. Not wrong; not wrong to want to have them fixed; but pretty small in the scheme of things. Heck, I myself have walked into a Tesla Service Center with a list of 22 or more issues ranging down a squeak in the dash and a wrinkle in the headliner, so I yield to no man on nit-picky-ness. But if these other issues so greatly diminish your enjoyment of the vehicle, perhaps you should consider returning to whatever manufacturer gave you happiness in the past.
Best of luck,
Alan
Just to pile on a bit, I purchased a new S75 around the same time as the OP and other than some paint flaws, which were mostly cosmetic, I haven't had any issues.
I echo the advise to visit your service center. Give them all of your concerns and they will address as many as they can.
I echo the advise to visit your service center. Give them all of your concerns and they will address as many as they can.
Thanks for the really thorough reply. As I said in the initial post, I really do want to like this car. Your reply and all before it have changed my outlook somewhat. I've been really pleased with the responses from the forum - all well considered and constructive.
I'm going to continue to try to like the vehicle and work with the dealer to fix the issues. Then, if I still can't get on with a Tesla I'll buy a 911!
Either way, I will think well of Tesla drivers after my experience on this forum.
One minor point, it’s a Tesla service center, not a dealer. Tesla doesn’t have dealers. I don’t know about the UK but in the US that’s a huge selling point for Tesla, not having to go through the auto dealer cartel to buy the car.
I have an S-75 and use lots of heat. I probably average 350-360 Wh/mi in the winter and 270-280 spring through fall. There is a huge difference in the winter, so hold on until the warmer weather comes before making a decision. The other issues can be corrected with a service center visit.
Since this position has been asserted four times in this thread, I think it is due for correction.
Yes, increase in speed causes an increase in drag, which requires more energy to traverse a given unit of distance. This affects both Tesla vehicles and non-Tesla vehicles (or anything that moves, really). However, this isn't relevant to the practical question.
What people are asserting is that, as speed increases, a gasoline vehicle will see comparable decreases in efficiency to that of a Tesla. At best, this is misleading; at worst, it is incorrect.
When we are talking about efficiency, we are talking about the amount of energy/fuel required to move a given distance at a given speed. Another way to frame this is, "How far can I go at a given speed with a given amount of energy/fuel?" It's been documented that maximum Tesla efficiency occurs around the 20-30mph range (such as here: Model S Efficiency and Range). From that point and up, there is a roughly linear decrease in efficiency. That means at 40mph, it takes more energy to travel a mile than it would at 30mph. At 50mph, it takes more energy than at 40mph, and so forth. The key difference is this is not necessarily true of gasoline engine vehicles. Gasoline engine vehicles have engine/transmission design that allows for optimization of fuel usage, which is often targeted at "freeway" speeds (55-65mph). This is why we see two different advertised fuel efficiency ratings: one for "city" (slower speeds and idling) and one for "freeway" (higher, consistent speeds). In gasoline engine vehicles, the "freeway" rating is always higher, usually by a significant percentage. It is quite possible for a gasoline engine vehicle to have increased efficiency at a higher speed when comparing speeds the 40-80mph range, whereas a Tesla will always decrease in efficiency as speed in that range increases.
This results in the opposite paradigm from that of gasoline engine vehicles: Tesla vehicles are more efficient in "city" driving conditions than they are in "freeway" driving conditions. People coming from gasoline engine vehicles may be confused by this, especially since the difference in efficiency between common freeway speeds (say, 55mph versus 65mph) is typically minimal in a gasoline engine vehicle (and may even be an improvement) , but is a substantial decrease in a Tesla.
If you can, try and use the Brooklands (Weybridge) service centre. My car was very poorly PDI'd by Heathrow (West Drayton), and follow-up visits to address the problems were shambles. Brooklands is night-and-day more communicative and pro-active in making things right.
Oh, and the wiper blades. They're just a rubbish product, not stiff enough to follow the screen properly. Go get some Michelin Stealth from Costco (#6 each a tthe moment) and remind them to not swap or charge you when you get a service.
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Thanks Ianf. I'm defo going to get those wiper blades from Costco! I've got it booked in with West Drayton so I'll give them one chance and then bail to Brooklands. I'll let you know how I get on - really appreciate your help.
Shock-On-T
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I have driven at 65mph as carefully as possible, with no wind, no traffic, warm day, flat roads, and I've never been able to get further than about 240 miles on a charge.I usually go 70mph (its the limit through OH and they have tons of troopers pinging people).
Maybe I should write a book? I had no idea it was so rare. I have a 75D. Thanks for the encouragement
That also seems about the same range as every other S75D I've read on this forum.
You 100% sure about that 300 miles?
Shock-On-T
⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️
Yep, wind resistance is at the square of the speed, so that last few mph hurts.
BTW, I use the calendar every day (have all my jobs loaded in phone the night before). It's wonderful. You have to keep the Tesla app running on your phone (at least in the background) for it to keep synchronizing to the car.
Another tip is you can put an address in the "location" field of your calendar entry, then once in the car you can click on that calendar entry and it will navigate to that location.
Yeah, it's strange. I have the Tesla App running and permissions granted for background. Which calendar is it syncing with on your phone (Google, Apple native etc?)
Shock-On-T
⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️
It does whatever calendar shows on your phone's calendar app.
You can add pretty much any calendar (google, microsoft exchange etc) to your phone's calendar.
I've got several calendars: my work's Microsoft Exchange calendar, my personal Gmail calendar, plus my Apple account calendar. They all end up in the iPhone calendar app, and that's what ends up on the car.
Shock-On-T
⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️
Oh, forgot to mention!
You have to go the Tesla App, go to the Settings (top-left gear cog), then make sure "Calendar Sync" is switched on.
My final point on range. I don't think getting rated range is that hard. In summer I can routinely hit 250wh/mi going 70mph in ideal driving conditions. 250wh/mi is 300 miles of range for a 75kwh battery (sure, it isn't quite 75kwh of energy but its close). Rated is about 290wh/mi.
Currently with the outdoor temp at 22F, I am getting 337wh/mi or about a 15% reduction in range. I keep heat at 67F (auto all settings seems to be the most efficient).
250wh/mi for a 75 would probably be 280 miles of range.
My car is actually far more efficient on the highway than driving around town (which is the exact opposite as my leaf). I get like 450wh/mi on short trips in town rather than much more efficient driving on longer trips (mostly due to the penalty of using heat which can draw 6.6kw of power and you don't travel many miles making the car very inefficient).
I've seen California posters get much better wh/mi averages, so I'm not sure my car is magical.
Currently with the outdoor temp at 22F, I am getting 337wh/mi or about a 15% reduction in range. I keep heat at 67F (auto all settings seems to be the most efficient).
250wh/mi for a 75 would probably be 280 miles of range.
My car is actually far more efficient on the highway than driving around town (which is the exact opposite as my leaf). I get like 450wh/mi on short trips in town rather than much more efficient driving on longer trips (mostly due to the penalty of using heat which can draw 6.6kw of power and you don't travel many miles making the car very inefficient).
I've seen California posters get much better wh/mi averages, so I'm not sure my car is magical.
Sawyer8888
Member
I have a RWD MS60 and I too have not been particularly pleased with the handling. The tread on the original Goodyear tires for my 19" wheels wore out quickly. Their ability to keep the car planted on the road was fairly poor, even in dry conditions. When it was wet, the back-end of the car had a tendency to swing out to the side when accelerating or changing lanes. I wished I had gone for the all-wheel drive. The handful of loaners I have driven that have AWD handle so much better.
As others have said, the type of tire you have can make a big difference. I replaced the Goodyears with Michelins since I have been happy with them on other vehicles. The handling is much better now. Still, I would prefer the all-wheel option over the RWD.
By the way, great overview by @Pollux a few posts back.
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