Disappointed with my S75

[davidc18]

Sounds like you have a fairly average Tesla. I never use auto park, voice recognition, slacker is broken, MCU is painfully slow, 9% battery loss in 2.5 years, front DU replaced, 3 door handles replaced, front motor mount bolts replaced and a bunch of smaller things fixed.

Still managed to appreciate how much better my daily commute is thanks to AP 1.0 and the electric drivetrain.

Good luck with your Tesla and welcome to the club.

 

[Wilsonuk]

I have a RWD MS60 and I too have not been particular pleased with the handling. The tread on the original Goodyear tires for my 19" wheels wore out quickly. Their ability to keep the car planted on the road was fairly poor, even in dry conditions. When it was wet, the back-end of the car had a tendency to swing out to the side when accelerating or changing lanes. I wished I had gone for the all-wheel drive. The handful of loaners I have driven that have AWD handle so much better.

As others have said, the type of tire you have can make a big difference. I replaced the Goodyears with Michelins since I have been happy with them on other vehicles. The handling is much better now. Still, I would prefer the all-wheel option over the RWD.

By the way, great overview by @Pollux a few posts back.

Told you it was twitchy! Tesla meets central reservation barrier...

 

[croman]

Told you it was twitchy! Tesla meets central reservation barrier...

Ouch. Sorry you've got a bigger issue now. I guess you've got even more reason to get that car looked at. Good luck!

 

[smac]

Told you it was twitchy! Tesla meets central reservation barrier...

Ouch!!!

Hopefully they can get you a Tesla loaner with all the niggles squared away so you can get an insight into how they should be, but more than likely you'll end up with an insurance company issued diesel for a repair like that


The issues you mention, are similar to the sorts of niggles I experienced as a fellow UK owner.

I left the Tesla fold after three years, primarily around how frustrating the numerous visits to keep getting minor issues fixed at the overworked service centres.

I saw earlier you mentioned a 911. One positive thing that owning a Tesla did do for me is to be more concerned with the environmental impacts. This was material in my choice of replacement. So I ended up getting an i8 to replace the Tesla.

I have to say the service levels are a million miles above the Tesla.

I had an issue with the window on the BMW (actually I think a valet at a hotel broke it by trying to force it all the way down). I phoned the dealership and they booked me in the next day.

Then the differences really shone through. Within an hour they had sent me a video up on the ramp giving a condition report on tyres / suspension / underbody. A phone call an hour after that giving me an update: parts needed (new window regulator), so these were ordered for overnight delivery. The car was fixed the next morning. Fully valeted, levels topped up, and ready to go. All done under warranty.

None of this "oh we can squeeze you in in two weeks time", followed by a call saying "we are waiting a couple of days for part XyZ to come in stock" nonsense we see in UK "Shambles Centers" (I also got the distinct feeling the "parts come into stock" was in some cases a white lie, to hide the fact they just don't have the workshop capacity to turn the work round fast enough.)

So if you do decide to leave Tesla, and can live with the doors of an i8 (which are a bit of a pain for a daily driver), it makes a credible alternative to a 911, but with much greener credentials.

 

[Sawyer8888]

Told you it was twitchy! Tesla meets central reservation barrier.

Sorry to see that. Fortunately it's minor and you're OK. Hopefully this along with the other issues get sorted out.

@jaguar36, do you disagree that tires make a difference in handling, or that RWD is superior to AWD?

 

[croman]

Tesla does need to sort out their service centers. Mine is great and I've even just dropped by unannounced and gotten service when my 12V alert had been up for several days. It seems to vary and that some regions have poor service.

 

[jgs]

What people are asserting is that, as speed increases, a gasoline vehicle will see comparable decreases in efficiency to that of a Tesla. At best, this is misleading; at worst, it is incorrect.

It's really not, although I will concede "exactly the same" was overreach. The same physical forces are at work, though, and operate in the same way, dominating the efficiency equation at highway speeds, differences in details of the power train notwithstanding.

To take a few particulars,

Tesla vehicles are more efficient in "city" driving conditions than they are in "freeway" driving conditions.

A glance at the EPA economy page for the 2017 Model S, for example, shows not one single entry where city economy equals or exceeds highway. True, they're much closer than they would be for a typical ICE vehicle, but on the face of it the quoted text isn't accurate. This is borne out by my own experience (highway economy much better than city) and countless others. The reasons for this are well-known and have little to do with the fact an ICE vehicle has a multi-ratio transmission to compensate for its narrow torque band. Rather, it's largely because energy recovery during start-stop city driving is much less than 100%. Because Teslas (and boring old hybrids for that matter) recover energy, they do better than conventional ICE which throw all the energy away.

the difference in efficiency between common freeway speeds (say, 55mph versus 65mph) is typically minimal in a gasoline engine vehicle (and may even be an improvement)

I would be interested see a citation of even one conventional car that gets better economy at 65 than it does at 55. The DOT says different. It's easy enough to read the reduction in economy off this DOT calculator. For example, it shows that from 55 to 65, a 2017 A6 2.0L automatic is about 15% less efficient. A 2017 Prius, 19%. And so on.

A few years ago Tesla published a blog with graphs of economy vs. speed. I haven't found a similarly authoritative one for ICE vehicles, but here's a representative example of what I did find. Eyeballing the curves, they're all rather similar. Unsurprisingly.

Anyway, this is a pretty serious tangent from the original topic so I'm not planning to follow up further, at least in this message thread, but I didn't want to leave the "correction" unanswered and wanted to provide something better than "is not!"

 

[Wilsonuk]

Ouch!!!

Hopefully they can get you a Tesla loaner with all the niggles squared away so you can get an insight into how they should be, but more than likely you'll end up with an insurance company issued diesel for a repair like that


The issues you mention, are similar to the sorts of niggles I experienced as a fellow UK owner.

I left the Tesla fold after three years, primarily around how frustrating the numerous visits to keep getting minor issues fixed at the overworked service centres.

I saw earlier you mentioned a 911. One positive thing that owning a Tesla did do for me is to be more concerned with the environmental impacts. This was material in my choice of replacement. So I ended up getting an i8 to replace the Tesla.

I have to say the service levels are a million miles above the Tesla.

I had an issue with the window on the BMW (actually I think a valet at a hotel broke it by trying to force it all the way down). I phoned the dealership and they booked me in the next day.

Then the differences really shone through. Within an hour they had sent me a video up on the ramp giving a condition report on tyres / suspension / underbody. A phone call an hour after that giving me an update: parts needed (new window regulator), so these were ordered for overnight delivery. The car was fixed the next morning. Fully valeted, levels topped up, and ready to go. All done under warranty.

None of this "oh we can squeeze you in in two weeks time", followed by a call saying "we are waiting a couple of days for part XyZ to come in stock" nonsense we see in UK "Shambles Centers" (I also got the distinct feeling the "parts come into stock" was in some cases a white lie, to hide the fact they just don't have the workshop capacity to turn the work round fast enough.)

So if you do decide to leave Tesla, and can live with the doors of an i8 (which are a bit of a pain for a daily driver), it makes a credible alternative to a 911, but with much greener credentials.

Yes, I've already been told to expect a three door hatchback for the loan car! I kept my BMW 640d for long journeys, so I'll drag his old bones out whilst the Tesla is being fixed.

I have to confess to visiting Auto Trader and looking at i8, also at Panamera Hybrid. I know the i8 divides opinion on looks, but I personally think they are stunning in the right colour combination. I'm at the early stages of research at present, so I'm not up to speed on how green they actually are (is it 30 miles on electric?). Also, can't ascertain if I could use the Tesla wall chargers I have had installed at my warehouse and home will also work to charge the i8 - I shall keep on digging :-/

Interested to hear your story, thanks very much for your input.

 

[BerTX]

I think there is some difference between "efficiency" and "fuel economy" that is being misunderstood here. Motor efficiency does not relate directly to fuel economy.

 

[jgs]

can't ascertain if I could use the Tesla wall chargers I have had installed at my warehouse and home will also work to charge the i8

At least in North America, the Tesla charging port (and hence the cable on the Tesla wall charger) is proprietary. There are a few Tesla-to-J1772 adapters to allow other cars to use Tesla wall chargers, though they seem a bit on the pricey side (though cheaper than installing a new EVSE, since you already have sunk cost in the Tesla kit).

I'm not sure what the situation is with respect to the charging standards in use in the UK.

 

[Tummy]

Take a look at this blog from Tesla for range vs speed.
Model S Efficiency and Range

You can see that going 60-65 vs 80 is a 25% penalty for power use. 300 wh/mile vs 400 wh/mile. We find that is pretty accurate.

 

[jaguar36]

@jaguar36, do you disagree that tires make a difference in handling, or that RWD is superior to AWD?

Obviously tires can make a huge difference in handling. You don't mention which specific tire you are speaking of. If you switched from the OEM Goodyear RS-A2s to Michelin Pilot Sport 3s, sure big difference, but if as I suspect, you switched from RS-A2s to MXM4s, then I'd be surprised if you could tell the difference. Even if you did, its likely more of a result of going from a bald tire to one with full tread.

Your comments about the "twitchy" handling of the RWD Model S, also do not jive with the near universal praise that the Model S received by most car magazines for its handling. I have both a RWD and an AWD Model S, and while I prefer the RWD, they are both far from 'twitchy'.

 

[jaguar36]

So if you do decide to leave Tesla, and can live with the doors of an i8 (which are a bit of a pain for a daily driver), it makes a credible alternative to a 911, but with much greener credentials.

I'm a fan of the i8 (except for the fake noise), but they are far from being competitors. One is a ~5000lb 5 (or 7!) seat sedan, vs a ~3500lb 2 door sports car. The i8 is also just a plug-in hybrid, with a range that's only useful if you have a very short commute and/or charging at work. The i8 is also BMW's halo car, and receives special treatment at the dealer (at least around here).

 

[smac]

I'm a fan of the i8 (except for the fake noise), but they are far from being competitors. One is a ~5000lb 5 (or 7!) seat sedan, vs a ~3500lb 2 door sports car. The i8 is also just a plug-in hybrid, with a range that's only useful if you have a very short commute and/or charging at work. The i8 is also BMW's halo car, and receives special treatment at the dealer (at least around here).

Yes and no. For the UK market, there is definite cross shopping, because both are exempted from congestion charging, and in general receive the same tax perks and other benefits (free parking / ULEV lanes etc). Putting this into perspective the relatively small UK market took 2000 units of the i8.

More broadly I agree though, the i8 and Tesla are not direct competitors if you take this tax and benefit stuff off the table.

However, this was more about the OP's statement he was considering a 911. The i8 very much is a competitor to a 911.

 

[Wilsonuk]

Obviously tires can make a huge difference in handling. You don't mention which specific tire you are speaking of. If you switched from the OEM Goodyear RS-A2s to Michelin Pilot Sport 3s, sure big difference, but if as I suspect, you switched from RS-A2s to MXM4s, then I'd be surprised if you could tell the difference. Even if you did, its likely more of a result of going from a bald tire to one with full tread.

Your comments about the "twitchy" handling of the RWD Model S, also do not jive with the near universal praise that the Model S received by most car magazines for its handling. I have both a RWD and an AWD Model S, and while I prefer the RWD, they are both far from 'twitchy'.

My accident was a result of aquaplaning. The road was very wet, but no worse than conditions I have seen literally thousands of times in the past. I have always driven at least 30k miles p/a in my 20 year working life, sometimes far more, so I am experienced. I was driving at 65mph (the Tesla told me I had to in order to reach my destination on the charge I had left) which I think was sensible for the conditions in any case. Instead of using the word 'twitchy' (which could be deemed an emotional term), I would certainly describe the feel of the car as 'light'. As a comparison, I would describe the feel of the handling of my 6 series as 'planted'. My tyres have only covered 3,500 miles and are a decent brand (Continental) so I don't think the tyres come into play in this situation, although I could be wrong. Even before I was hurtling along the dual carriageway sideways, and even in dry conditions, I do think it's reasonable for me to describe the 'feel' of the car (as opposed to specifically the handling, as I always think that 'handling' better describes how the car corners etc.) as, at best, 'light'!

I suppose much of this is subjective and down to individual perception, as well as expectations derived from previous car ownership.

 

[David29]

Every 5mph reduction is quite a substantial gain in range. Rain / Snow wreak havoc on range.

Search Youtube for Bjorn Nyland, TeslaBjorn. Very informative videos!

Or see the "official" Tesla range calculator at the bottom of this web site. (This is the US page so you may have to look for the corresponding page for the UK site. Data should be the same.) Unfortunately the speed adjustment does not go above 70 MPH. (Silly, eh?)
Model S | Tesla

 

[Sawyer8888]

I suspect, you switched from RS-A2s to MXM4s, then I'd be surprised if you could tell the difference.

You're correct. I went with Michelin MXM4s. But there was an obvious immediate difference, mostly due to the low tread wear on the OEM Goodyears.

The car will handle fairly well with any new tire I suspect, however the rear Goodyears did not last long at all (just about gone after 10,000 miles - failed to rotate at 3K intervals, which was suggested by the Tesla SC). This led to the back-end of the car becoming very loose in the turns and during acceleration when slick. If AWD, I believe the car would do better despite lower tread. I'll be rotating every 6K miles going forward. This is usually done during oil changes - hence why I failed to rotate initially.

The way the car handles is only one of the issues the OP is dealing with. New/different tires or not, I think if he had a 75D as opposed to a 75, he would be happier with this aspect of the car.

 

[controller]

Hi,

I'm new to the forum and I'm going to start with some negatives. I love the idea of Tesla and purchased a brand new Model S 75 in October 2017. After 3,500 miles I have been totally unimpressed to the point where I'm considering trading it in for something else. The purpose of the post is to see if I've been unlucky, or if other Tesla owners have had similar issues, and if so do the issues get resolved/do you get used to the problems in time!

The issues I have with the car part poor build quality and (more worryingly) part failings of the design in my opinion. The list is as follows:

1. The range indicator is totally misleading. I have never managed to get more than about 60% of the stated 240 mile range driving at 'normal' UK motorway speeds (80mph)
2. I find the windscreen wipers baffling to use and ineffective. I also get 'Washer Fluid Low' warning all the time when it's full, but that's just one of the build quality issues and i'm sure it's easily fixable.
3. Faulty door handles - passenger side doesn't retract at all. The drivers side handle pings back in like it has been fired at the car from a catapult.
4. Rear lights have condensation in them, which I assume is because of poorly fitted seals. Again, easily fixable I'm sure, but it reduces confidence in the all round quality of build/assembly.
5. The Interior trim around the door frames is not well fitted which leads to inconsistent closing of windows and excessive noise.
5. Handling - in the dry, it is twitchy. In damp conditions it is VERY twitchy. In wet conditions it feels to me rather like how I would imagine it would feel riding a Moto GP bike in the wet over cobbles. On slick tyres.
6. Auto Pilot is useful in slow moving traffic, but nervy at motorway speeds. It doesn't react to cars moving into my lane and sometimes brakes hard for (apparently) absolutely no reason. Auto lane change is inconsistent. The dealer told me that the car 'learns' as it gets used, but I'm not convinced!
7. Automatic Park inconsistent, and not always offered. I think this might still be in Beta, which is fair enough, but one of my colleagues had a VW Passatt 8 years ago with this feature fully working.
8. Never managed to pair my calendar with the vehicle. A minor niggle, but it shouldn't be offered as a feature if it doesn't work.
9. The toggle on the steering wheel used to select phone contacts slips easily, making it difficult to send and end calls.
10. Quality of switch gear is very poor. I didn't think I would mind this when I was test driving the car, but it actually annoys me more every time I use the vehicle.

I do like the large screen and the ability to warm the car before I enter, but other than that the only reason I can think to keep the vehicle is for price/environmental reasons. So, my experience has been poor, but I'm willing to be convinced of the merits of keeping it by more experienced users! I really want to like it!!

Sorry for so many negatives, but I am genuinely trying to get feedback to help with my decision to change the car or not.

All (constructive) feedback appreciated!

Andy

Andy, you will get used to this. In the beginning, I had similar concerns about the build quality, numerous glitches and uselessness of the Autopilot. But the pluses won over minuses. Tesla does provide good service and fixes issues without arguing, which helps customers to get over negative experiences.

 

[d21mike]

This results in the opposite paradigm from that of gasoline engine vehicles: Tesla vehicles are more efficient in "city" driving conditions than they are in "freeway" driving conditions. People coming from gasoline engine vehicles may be confused by this, especially since the difference in efficiency between common freeway speeds (say, 55mph versus 65mph) is typically minimal in a gasoline engine vehicle (and may even be an improvement) , but is a substantial decrease in a Tesla.

Maybe I do not understand what you mean but I use much more battery in the city then I do on the freeway per miles driven. I have a friend with a small electric car (like a 80 mile range) that made the same statement you are making and he assumed it was true about my car. I said no, my car is much like my ICE car in terms of miles per charge or miles per gallon when comparing City Driving vs. Freeway Driving. He said maybe it was the Tesla Aerodynamics. I said maybe I don't know.

From my TeslaFI Application:
Example:
Recent City Street trip: 426 Wh/Mile 63.8% Efficiency
Recent Freeway trip: 315 Wh/Mile 86.2% Efficiency - included some City Street but mostly Freeway

My point is sometimes I will get < 300 Wh/Mile when on the Freeway (depends on speed). But in the City I seldom get < 400 Wh/Mile.

Maybe this is due to my lead foot. Am I missing something major?

 

[JonG]

That bump is probably £10k at an approved body shop. Somebody hit a pot hole of the motorway and he’s been told £16k ($20k) to get it fixed by Tesla as the air suspension failed.

You’ll also never get 300 miles in the uk from a S75, our summer isn’t that long and autumn will be here before you’ve done half those miles.

Most of your issues just need sorting by a service centre and the weather in the uk is making the cars a bit of a handful. But that’s the car. I’m always disappointed when owners try to tell someone they’re wrong when it’s their experience. I also find it totally stupid that someone suggests changing the car to display % when the issue is the car is a long way off the quoted figures. You’re seeing the car at its worst however, if you can stick it out to summer you may appreciate it better, and if you tried selling now you’d loose a fortune so you may as well hold on for a bit.