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Discussion: Model 3 Price reductions - Jan / April / Oct 2023 and all other pricing discussions

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From posts above, I understand M3 may not fully qualify for federal tax credit due to battery mineral sourcing requirements that will be phased in on 1/1/24.

I’d like to wait until 2024 to capture $7,500 tax credit at point of sale but don’t want to lose the credit in 2024 due to mineral sourcing requirement.

Any word as to whether Highlands sold in US will remedy that limitation?

If not do both lithium (AWD) and LFP (RWD) batteries use minerals sourced outside USA?
 
From posts above, I understand M3 may not fully qualify for federal tax credit due to battery mineral sourcing requirements that will be phased in on 1/1/24.

I’d like to wait until 2024 to capture $7,500 tax credit at point of sale but don’t want to lose the credit in 2024 due to mineral sourcing requirement.

Any word as to whether Highlands sold in US will remedy that limitation?

If not do both lithium (AWD) and LFP (RWD) batteries use minerals sourced outside USA?
Guessing all sourcing will remain the same. After reduced point of sale tax rebate they will just mark down in inventory cars further. The other possibility is that Cybertruck will be a big flop due to price being nowhere near $40k and then all those 4680 cells from Texas can be used to build M3's which will then fix the sourcing issue.
 
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So when will the inventory discounts show up, and how many people here are waiting to gobble them up. My scenario is must buy in 2023, so that’s good if they are planning big discounts to clear out existing inventory for highland. But now I’m seeing highland features and starting ti wonder if no stalk would be just fine. Lots of talk of it coming with a lower price too. I’d be one of the folks here that would be kind of upset if a car with longer range and better miles per kw comes out weeks after and is cheaper too. Government giving away tax dollars is the only thing that’s forcing the purchase. Otherwise I’d probably just buy used.

So when will we see highland in the US?
 
So when will the inventory discounts show up, and how many people here are waiting to gobble them up. My scenario is must buy in 2023, so that’s good if they are planning big discounts to clear out existing inventory for highland. But now I’m seeing highland features and starting ti wonder if no stalk would be just fine. Lots of talk of it coming with a lower price too. I’d be one of the folks here that would be kind of upset if a car with longer range and better miles per kw comes out weeks after and is cheaper too. Government giving away tax dollars is the only thing that’s forcing the purchase. Otherwise I’d probably just buy used.

So when will we see highland in the US?
2 predictions. 1) Elon does surprise Highland open for orders announcement alongside Cybertruck in this month end Austin event. 2) Highland starts taking orders after Cybertruck dust settles. Spring 2024. You have 7.5k for 2023 + 3.75k for 2024 federal cash + your state EV rebates to play with the numbers. Buy this year and trade in to highland if it's worth upgrading. After all rebates and trade in values you may not make a profit or breakeven but will not be much in the red either. Maybe a $2k to $3k loss worst case.
 
It does seem like there's something about the Highland which lowers the tax credit. Maybe the expected sales surge won't leave enough domestic batteries for both the Y and 3 so they're softening the Highland launch with imported batteries until supply/demand levels out?

If so, I'd expect them halt Fremont production in mid-December and start taking Highland orders for 2024Q1 deliveries. That would give them a month or so to retool and since they're already missing the tax credit, they might even borrow some parts from Shanghai to bridge the transition. The recent elimination of "inventory" discounts may be an effort to stockpile enough 1st gen cars to span the gap and those cars might continue to sell in 2024 as 2023 models, likely even retaining the full tax credit.
 
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So when will the inventory discounts show up, and how many people here are waiting to gobble them up. My scenario is must buy in 2023, so that’s good if they are planning big discounts to clear out existing inventory for highland. But now I’m seeing highland features and starting ti wonder if no stalk would be just fine. Lots of talk of it coming with a lower price too. I’d be one of the folks here that would be kind of upset if a car with longer range and better miles per kw comes out weeks after and is cheaper too. Government giving away tax dollars is the only thing that’s forcing the purchase. Otherwise I’d probably just buy used.

So when will we see highland in the US?
The easiest transition for Tesla would be to price Highland M3 $5k or so above the current M3. Then, when the old model is sold out, start decreasing Highland price if and when there is need for more demand.
 
The easiest transition for Tesla would be to price Highland M3 $5k or so above the current M3. Then, when the old model is sold out, start decreasing Highland price if and when there is need for more demand.
It’ll be hard to go up 5K in the USA, when starting in Jan 24, the federal tax credit/rebate goes down 2.5K…Maybe they start high, but then come down come down once the initial wave of demand is filled - but that too starts to look a bit desperate.
 
The recent elimination of "inventory" discounts may be an effort to stockpile enough 1st gen cars to span the gap and those cars might continue to sell in 2024 as 2023 models, likely even retaining the full tax credit.
Had not considered this possibility as I sit sidelined waiting for $36,220 inventory price to return. Sure would be nice to capture the full $7,500 federal tax credit at the point of sale in January with the previous deep inventory discounts.
 
Had not considered this possibility as I sit sidelined waiting for $36,220 inventory price to return. Sure would be nice to capture the full $7,500 federal tax credit at the point of sale in January with the previous deep inventory discounts.
Inventory doesn’t really seem to be growing much on the M3. I haven’t seen the US inventory go above 1150 this quarter when it seems the other models hover around 2500. It seems here that everyone knows highland is coming out, and the absence of stalks seems to be the only negative of the new model. Better mpkwh, better aerodynamics, longer range. Even with all this, I think they will have a tough time pricing it higher than the MY which is only $3750-5000 (depending on the time) more for a like model. Why take a 3 with a $3750 tax credit instead of a Y with a $7500 tax credit? Only because you don’t qualify for a tax credit. Right? The M3 price will probably have to stay low or even come down. If lots of the design were around cost-cutting, I think it’s likely that the new price will end up being lower. And with that, the loss of $3750 in government incentives is probably a risk most are willing to take. For me though, I think we won’t qualify for any federal incentives. So I need to buy in 2023. Lots of people saw wage increases in the pandemic. So there could be a sizable chunk of people like me waiting to gobble up inventory at the end of the year. What I want to buy is still sitting there at this point. So I’m not scared. But as soon as the inventory gets low enough that what I want has to be ordered, at that point I might panic and just accept what’s out there to take a 2023 delivery. Patience. Of course I want to see inventory rise. It would be good for every buyer. But not discount M3 to holdover in the gap? I thought they were switching various lines over. There’s not just one production line, is there? I would expect they have a few production lines and just one of a few in Fremont will be transitioned, and they will work out the kinks. Then the other lines will be switched. So there should not be a gap while all M3 lines are down. They will likely be pumping out the last few old M3 along side the new Hughland M3. Am I wrong about this?

Also, how can they discount MY potentially below an older Model M3? No M3 discounts means no MY discounts. So their Q4, along with a potentially messy CT rollout could make for a terrible Q4 and some pissed off shareholders. They better have the same type of push for Q4 planned to hit not only their Q4 numbers, but the entire year. I expect inventory discounts.
 
The recent elimination of "inventory" discounts may be an effort to stockpile enough 1st gen cars to span the gap and those cars might continue to sell in 2024 as 2023 models, likely even retaining the full tax credit.
Also forgot in the reply I posted above to @Gauss Guzzler, it’s not the content of the battery holding the $7,500 tax credit in place for 2023, it’s the content of the tax code requiring more US minerals that takes effect in 2024 that will decrease the credit; so holdover vehicles sold in 2024 won’t qualify for full tax credit on 1/1/24 because of the mineral content within the existing batteries coupled with the more stringent standards within the tax code.
Is the reasoning sound?
 
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I was assuming the modest increase from 40% free trade minerals to 50% would not be a limiting factor for Tesla, but reading more carefully I see there is another potential challenge:
The 2-part credit is split into $3750 for "battery minerals" and/or $3750 for "battery components". Both ratios increase 10%/yr, but starting in 2024 the rule changes from "50% free trade" components to "0% Chinese" battery components. Then in 2025 it adds "0% Chinese minerals".
 
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I was assuming the modest increase from 40% free trade minerals to 50% would not be a limiting factor for Tesla, but reading more carefully I see there is another potential challenge:
The 2-part credit is split into $3750 for "battery minerals" and/or $3750 for "battery components". Both ratios increase 10%/yr, but starting in 2024 the rule changes from "50% free trade" components to "0% Chinese" battery components. Then in 2025 it adds "0% Chinese minerals".
I think this is the first I’ve read of the 0% Chinese parts. I wonder why articles like this one don’t mention it. I thought the LFP batteries in the RWD are already 100% Chinese, and it seems they should not get the tax credit at all. Tesla Warns Model 3 Federal Tax Credit Will "Likely" Be Reduced In 2024

There’s lots of talk of 12% extended range which seems like a lot for just aerodynamics, yet I believe there’s also talk of no changes to the batteries.

I also wonder how the 2024 Point of Sale thing will work, and the fact that Tesla isn’t really a “dealer.” Since nobody knows how much someone will make in the current year, it seems that to make a POS transfer to a dealer, that dealer is going to want to have not only the W2s from the taxpayer but perhaps a full tax return from the prior year. I bet Tesla doesn’t even play that game without a full tax return, or at all (if they even can as a dealer).

It seems like 2024 brings a lot of uncertainty to the model 3: Incentives, Range, Price, Maybe Battery changes, and build quality of a new model without kinks all worked out, and then the Lack of Stalks. But when I read about Highland, I will admit that I would prefer one. Why would anyone want the shorter range and older body style? Well, if the plan is mostly for around-town-driving, then maybe the aerodynamics won’t matter all that much for the range if the batteries really aren’t going to change.

I’m just trying to justify moving forward with buying a M3 in 2023.

It looks like inventory, and perhaps production could be down. I read that in the past few weeks Highland deliveries took place across Europe, and there’s currently no M3 inventory in any of the LHD countries. I see UK and Austrailia and Japan have some, but otherwise it appears to just be North America with inventory, and less than 1100 right now. So I’m guessing China is only pumping out enough to keep up with European demand, and zero excess.

It could be that in the US, they don’t want to mess with the production, as they know the M3 sales are going to be screwed for a few reasons in early 2024: 1) Drop in incentives due to battery change that somehow doesn’t apply to MY (maybe planning to divert battery resources to MY?),
2) POS incentives available for other low-cost EV makers (with dealers) offering POS down-payment option, and Tesla not?
3) switchover production drop due to highland change.

Notice that Tesla re-introduced the MY RWD which is only $3750-5000 more than the M3. This vehicle may bridge the gap as the low-cost vehicle readily available during the highland refresh in the US. Meanwhile building demand for highland when demand is likely to be lower as the incentives may appear non-existent being 50% of what they are now and also not available until the buyer does they taxes a year later.

So with this, Tesla will probably not be relying on M3 sales in Q1 for their numbers to impress stockholders. I will guess they will release the Highland for orders to hype it sort of like they did with Cybertruck, but on afar smaller scale. Releasing in Europe with Chinese made was probably smart to assure the kinks get worked out, so their larger US release is smoother.

So, knowing that the incentives for the M3 are getting cut in half due to the battery, they probably want to clear out all the old inventory at the end of the year. With all this info, my guess is that we will see inventory steadily decline for the M3 and possibly not even see any end-of-year inventory discounts come if she inventory gets low enough. If there are leftovers in 2024 when they probably start taking Highland orders, they can discount them in 2024. Inventory seemed to peak a few days ago at ~1150 on the Worldwide page for North American production, now closer to ~1050. I will start to monitor the country page now. I hope to see US inventory rise, but don’t have high expectations of seeing that. November will be the month to see an increase in inventory if it’s going to happen IMO, not December.
 
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I will just be watching US Inventory numbers here:


383 MS, 330 MX, 1052 M3, 2284 MY

Either they will pump out some M3 in November, or they are slowing production while getting ready for the Highland release. I’d think that most people would be willing to potentially lose $3750 of government money to see either deep discounts on old M3 or get a newer improved version, just without stalks.
 
I will just be watching US Inventory numbers here:


383 MS, 330 MX, 1052 M3, 2284 MY

Either they will pump out some M3 in November, or they are slowing production while getting ready for the Highland release. I’d think that most people would be willing to potentially lose $3750 of government money to see either deep discounts on old M3 or get a newer improved version, just without stalks.
Seems really strange that the numbers on that site changed only once since my post 2 days ago and M3 numbers have been 1048 and MY 2277 since. Not a busy week for buying or selling in the US I guess, or production perfectly matches demand.
 
Seems really strange that the numbers on that site changed only once since my post 2 days ago and M3 numbers have been 1048 and MY 2277 since. Not a busy week for buying or selling in the US I guess, or production perfectly matches demand.
These numbers still have not changed, yet pretty much every variety of M3RWD seems to be available for me to buy in inventory other than white on white. I’m thinking that Tesla is getting ready to release a glut of inventory for the Q4 year end big push. They don’t want it to trickle out, and prefer to have a “bang” and want inventory to be ready for the buyers. As with anything, I sure can be wrong. But I still see no reason to try and buy right now with so many list price inventory options. $250 replaced with 6 months unlimited supercharging (road trip?). Rates went up to 6.7% from 6.5%. So nothing to do but wait now.
 
FYI - All inventory Model 3s are discounted 3-4% as of 11.14.2023. Whether that's sufficient for you to purchase is up to you to decide; personally, I am waiting for 8-10% discount over the next 6 weeks (same as it was toward the end of Q3).
Oh there we go now. Looks like @mknmike's delay may end up paying off. Yesterday no discounts, now I'm seeing $1500 off new model 3 RWD and $1800 off the long range!
 
Oh there we go now. Looks like @mknmike's delay may end up paying off. Yesterday no discounts, now I'm seeing $1500 off new model 3 RWD and $1800 off the long range!
Yep! I’m still holding out. As of last light I was only seeing about $1200 off (which pays for lack of $250 referral). I see inventory trackers have provided an update too. 402 MS, 319 MX, 1622 M3, 1827 MY

That’s a drop for MY I think. That would make sense if the MY factories are now working on the Cybertruck. Also, there’s not the same fear of losing the fed discount on the MY as the M3 for whatever reason. Anyway, with inventory up and seeing multiple options for cars I can buy, I will continue to wait a few more weeks.
 
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I am torn between buying a inventory 2023 Model 3 RWD (black) now vs 2024 Model 3 Highland RWD sometime in Q1. With the current model, I am out the door for $44,213 after taxes and fees. This total is significantly reduced with the trade in of my 2016 Honda Civic with 67,000 miles and the EV Credit of $7,500. This ends up putting me out $21,713 once I am refunded the $7,500.

I was told this morning by a Tesla Advisor that the Model 3 Highland will likely only qualify for $3,750 and that the price is likely to increase 1-2K for the RWD line. If I wait it out a couple more week with @mknmike and can get my total cost as close to $20,000, it almost makes it a no brainer, rather than risking a worst case situation where I am paying almost $8,000 more for the Model 3 Highland in Q1.

Anyone else in the same boat?
 
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I am torn between buying a inventory 2023 Model 3 RWD (black) now vs 2024 Model 3 Highland RWD sometime in Q1. With the current model, I am out the door for $44,213 after taxes and fees. This total is significantly reduced with the trade in of my 2016 Honda Civic with 67,000 miles and the EV Credit of $7,500. This ends up putting me out $21,713 once I am refunded the $7,500.

I was told this morning by a Tesla Advisor that the Model 3 Highland will likely only qualify for $3,750 and that the price is likely to increase 1-2K for the RWD line. If I wait it out a couple more week with @mknmike and can get my total cost as close to $20,000, it almost makes it a no brainer, rather than risking a worst case situation where I am paying almost $8,000 more for the Model 3 Highland in Q1.

Anyone else in the same boat?
I think a lot are in the same boat relatively speaking. I suspect your advisor is just guessing as to a price increase, though I'm by no means saying he/she is incorrect. Some have suspected the "warning" from tesla about halving of the federal credit may be fear mongering, but maybe it's not.

I very much think highland is not worth $8k more if it came to that.

I assume your state doesn't have any additional tax credits for an EV? Coming from a civic to this car you're going to be very happy!