Do P85Ds and S85Ds have inaccurate odometers that overstate distance traveled?

[Andyw2100]

A) You have to understand what a lawyer is. If they admit a fault here, they could and would be sued for the mileage discrepancy with respect to tires, warranties, resale, etc. That's the reality of this situation.

B) For all you know the next update will solve this issue. Tesla famously doesn't tell you what bugs will be fixed and when.

C) It's the truth. The discrepancy is within the acceptable range as many have noted in this thread. That said, see #2. I think it'll get set closer to true at some point.

Thanks, I do understand all that, and I hope you are right. I guess I was just hoping for something more along the lines of "Thanks for bringing this to our attention. We're looking into the issue. While our odometers are certainly within SAE standards, we always strive for excellence, and we hope to be able to improve the D odometers' accuracy even further in a future firmware update."

 

[eco5280]

Well if it makes you feel better, I think I'd like you writing their email replies from now on, that was lovely and well put.

 

[Terra117]

Almost every car has some odometer and speedometer discrepancy.

Absolutely.

Many cars are offered with different wheel/tire sizes where circumfrences are not precisely identical, yet no compensation is made to correct the speedometer or odometer reading. At least I've never heard of any manufacturer making this adjustment.

The speedometer reading is always set conservatively, i.e. actual speed is less than the car indicates, at least with all OEM wheel/tire combinations. This is done so that drivers do not exceed speed limits based on information provided by the car. Imagine the lawsuits coming from tickets being issued for exceeding the posted speed when the car indicated the speed was under the limit.

We have a portable GPS unit we use when traveling that happens to show current vehicle speed. No matter where on the planet we have used the GPS, in every case the speed indicated by the car is less than the actual speed. The sample size is several dozens of vehicles, perhaps in the triple digits.

Odometer readings are computed from the same data provided to the speedometer, so this will be off as well.

 

[Andyw2100]

Absolutely.

Many cars are offered with different wheel/tire sizes where circumfrences are not precisely identical, yet no compensation is made to correct the speedometer or odometer reading. At least I've never heard of any manufacturer making this adjustment.

The speedometer reading is always set conservatively, i.e. actual speed is less than the car indicates, at least with all OEM wheel/tire combinations. This is done so that drivers do not exceed speed limits based on information provided by the car. Imagine the lawsuits coming from tickets being issued for exceeding the posted speed when the car indicated the speed was under the limit.

We have a portable GPS unit we use when traveling that happens to show current vehicle speed. No matter where on the planet we have used the GPS, in every case the speed indicated by the car is less than the actual speed. The sample size is several dozens of vehicles, perhaps in the triple digits.

Odometer readings are computed from the same data provided to the speedometer, so this will be off as well.

That's all well and good. The issue here is that we have several posters who have owned Tesla Model S vehicles previously, and those vehicles did not exhibit this behavior.

Take this post, for example. (I added the bold.):

I'll note that this discrepancy was present and nearly identical in both side by side tests I did with my fiance.

Images from Trip 1 -> P85D vs. P85 Efficiency Testing - Page 6

Images from Trip 2 -> P85D vs. P85 Efficiency Testing, Take 2 - Page 6

Video From Trip 1 -> Tesla Model S P85D vs P85 - Efficiency Test, Leg 1 (5x Time Lapse) - YouTube

Video From Trip 2 -> Tesla Model S P85D vs P85 - Efficiency Test, Take 2, Leg 1 (5x Time Lapse) - YouTube

The videos only show the first leg of each test, but the return trip was the same route. The discrepancy is easily noted just from the videos though and it is consistent at around +0.8% on the P85D. That would come to an odometer reading of 100,000 miles on the P85D at only 99,200 actual miles assuming the P85 odometer is the correct one.

I noticed this on my very first trip with the P85D from NJ->NC after taking delivery. The trip meter showed about 6 extra miles vs what I expected from a dozen previous trips on the exact same route.

Honestly, I haven't really had the motivation to bother Tesla about this as of yet.

It's pretty apparent that something has changed (for the worse) with respect to the accuracy of the odometers.

 

[ReversePolarity]

Get bigger tires, = problems solved. You might earn yourself a few extra miles if your car were leased

 

[Andyw2100]

Good news!

It would appear that Tesla has corrected the problem in version 6.2.2.4.188 of the firmware.

I've been tracking my wife's trips to and from work. The discrepancies between what the Model S recorded these trips as and what EV Trip Planner thought these trips should be was one of the first things that alerted me to the odometer inaccuracy issue. In any case, these trips are obviously very consistent, with almost no variance. To work is typically 53.8 miles, and home from work is typically 53.3 miles. Today, the first day I recorded these trips with version .188 of the firmware, the trip to work was recorded by the P85D as 53.4 miles, and the trip home was recorded as 52.8 miles.

	Before	Now	Change
	(Inaccurate)	(Accurate)
To work:	53.8	53.4	(0.4)
From work:	53.3	52.8	(0.5)

There's obviously rounding involved, since I'm only seeing a couple of different trips recorded to the tenth of a mile, but this comes to a correction of roughly .7% on the trip to work and roughly .9% on the trip home from work. Averaged, that would be the .8% everyone seemed to agree the odometers were off by.

I think Tesla listened, made a correction, and now probably has this right!

 

[Andyw2100]

P85D and S85D odometer inaccuracy corrected in firmware version 6.2.2.4.188

Since I had started a thread about the inaccuracy of the odometers in the P85D and the S85D (Do P85Ds and S85Ds have inaccurate odometers that overstate distance traveled?)

I thought I should also start one now that it appears the problem has been corrected. Here is a link to my post in the thread referenced above:

Do P85Ds and S85Ds have inaccurate odometers that overstate distance traveled? - Page 7

Good news!

It would appear that Tesla has corrected the problem in version 6.2.2.4.188 of the firmware.

I've been tracking my wife's trips to and from work. The discrepancies between what the Model S recorded these trips as and what EV Trip Planner thought these trips should be was one of the first things that alerted me to the odometer inaccuracy issue. In any case, these trips are obviously very consistent, with almost no variance. To work is typically 53.8 miles, and home from work is typically 53.3 miles. Today, the first day I recorded these trips with version .188 of the firmware, the trip to work was recorded by the P85D as 53.4 miles, and the trip home was recorded as 52.8 miles.

	Before	Now	Change
	(Inaccurate)	(Accurate)
To work:	53.8	53.4	(0.4)
From work:	53.3	52.8	(0.5)

There's obviously rounding involved, since I'm only seeing a couple of different trips recorded to the tenth of a mile, but this comes to a correction of roughly .7% on the trip to work and roughly .9% on the trip home from work. Averaged, that would be the .8% everyone seemed to agree the odometers were off by.

I think Tesla listened, made a correction, and now probably has this right!

It would be helpful if others who verified the inaccuracy previously could now verify the accuracy, assuming you have version .188 of the firmware.

Thanks!

 

[gpetti]

Good news!

It would appear that Tesla has corrected the problem in version 6.2.2.4.188 of the firmware.

I've been tracking my wife's trips to and from work. The discrepancies between what the Model S recorded these trips as and what EV Trip Planner thought these trips should be was one of the first things that alerted me to the odometer inaccuracy issue. In any case, these trips are obviously very consistent, with almost no variance. To work is typically 53.8 miles, and home from work is typically 53.3 miles. Today, the first day I recorded these trips with version .188 of the firmware, the trip to work was recorded by the P85D as 53.4 miles, and the trip home was recorded as 52.8 miles.

	Before	Now	Change
	(Inaccurate)	(Accurate)
To work:	53.8	53.4	(0.4)
From work:	53.3	52.8	(0.5)

There's obviously rounding involved, since I'm only seeing a couple of different trips recorded to the tenth of a mile, but this comes to a correction of roughly .7% on the trip to work and roughly .9% on the trip home from work. Averaged, that would be the .8% everyone seemed to agree the odometers were off by.

I think Tesla listened, made a correction, and now probably has this right!

Good to hear. I guess they did take note, without overtly admitting it was an issue. I'll review my original reports and see if I notice the improvement.

 

[Andyw2100]

I'm just adding one additional data point that supports my conclusion, but since it is from me and my car, I'd still really appreciate it if others jumped in here too.

I just completed another trip that is a regular trip that I've logged many times. It had typically been recorded by the P85D as 58.8 miles. (Occasionally it had been recorded as 58.7 or 58.9 miles, but 58.8 was the most common figure, and clearly the best number to use for comparison, since it falls between the other two.) Today my P85D recorded the trip as being 58.3 miles. That's a difference of .5 miles, which equates to .86%--again, awfully close to that .8% figure.

 

[Andyw2100]

Good to hear. I guess they did take note, without overtly admitting it was an issue. I'll review my original reports and see if I notice the improvement.

Thanks, Greg.

I just posted one more example in the new thread I started, seeking confirming data from others. That thread is here:

P85D and S85D odometer inaccuracy corrected in firmware version 6.2.2.4.188

 

[Danal]

In the original thread, I happened to be taking a 100+ mile trip a day or two later, and I ran Tesla telemetry for the whole trip.

I am now on .188, and I will be doing a measurement. It will take at least a little bit of a road trip, so it may be a day or two. I will use the same measurement technique.

 

[wk057]

Took a long trip in mid March and did the exact same trip today. 228.9 miles on the trip meter both times.

So, going to go with no change.

 

[wk057]

Posted this in the other thread:

Took a long trip in mid March and did the exact same trip today. 228.9 miles on the trip meter both times.

View attachment 80518

View attachment 80519

So, going to go with no change.

 

[Andyw2100]

Took a long trip in mid March and did the exact same trip today. 228.9 miles on the trip meter both times.

So, going to go with no change.

This is strange.

You have 21" wheels and I have 19" wheels. So one possibility is that the correction has been made for 19" wheels, but not yet for 21" wheels.

The other possibility, I guess, is that somehow when my car was in for service the service center made some sort of adjustment to my odometer.

I only recorded a couple of trips after getting the car back from the service center on .168, before getting .188. My wheels were also changed at that time, but having snow tires on was not the cause of the error in the first place, because many people without snow tires were reporting the same error.

My Data:

Trip 1:

		Distance
Date	Firmware	(Miles)
2/4/15	6.1.2.2.139	58.4
2/16/15	6.1.2.2.139	58.5
2/20/15	6.1.2.2.139	58.5
2/26/15	6.1.2.2.167	58.5
3/3/15	6.1.2.2.179	58.5
3/11/15	6.1.2.2.179	58.3
3/25/15	6.1.2.2.179	58.4
3/30/15	6.1.2.2.179	58.3
4/3/15	6.1.2.2.179	58.3
4/8/15	6.1.2.2.179	58.4
4/14/15	6.1.2.2.179	58.2
5/5/15	6.2.2.4.168	57.9
5/8/15	6.2.2.4.188	57.8

Trip 1 - A (Other Direction)

		Distance
Date	Firmware	(Miles)
2/13/15	6.1.2.2.139	59
2/19/15	6.1.2.2.139	59
2/24/15	6.1.2.2.167	58.9
3/1/15	6.1.2.2.179	59
3/10/15	6.1.2.2.179	58.6
3/18/15	6.1.2.2.179	58.8
3/27/15	6.1.2.2.179	58.8
4/1/15	6.2.2.4.124	58.8
4/6/15	6.2.2.4.124	58.7
4/10/15	6.2.2.4.124	58.7
4/14/15	6.2.2.4.124	58.9
4/24/15	6.2.2.4.168	58.6
5/7/15	6.2.2.4.188	58.3

Trip 2

		Distance
Date	Firmware	(Miles)
2/5/15	6.1.2.2.139	54
2/6/15	6.1.2.2.139	54
2/12/15	6.1.2.2.139	54
2/17/15	6.1.2.2.139	54
2/18/15	6.1.2.2.139	54.1
2/23/15	6.1.2.2.167	54
2/27/15	6.1.2.2.167	54
3/4/15	6.1.2.2.179	53.9
3/5/15	6.1.2.2.179	53.9
3/6/15	6.1.2.2.179	54
3/9/15	6.1.2.2.179	53.9
3/12/15	6.1.2.2.179	53.8
3/13/15	6.1.2.2.179	53.9
3/16/15	6.1.2.2.179	53.8
3/17/15	6.1.2.2.179	53.8
3/26/15	6.1.2.2.179	53.8
3/31/15	6.2.2.4.124	53.8
4/9/15	6.2.2.4.124	53.8
4/23/15	6.2.2.4.168	53.6
5/6/15	6.2.2.4.188	53.4

Trip 2 - A (Other Direction)

		Distance
Date	Firmware	(Miles)
2/5/15	6.1.2.2.139	53.5
2/6/15	6.1.2.2.139	53.4
2/12/15	6.1.2.2.139	53.4
2/17/15	6.1.2.2.139	53.4
2/18/15	6.1.2.2.139	54.3
2/23/15	6.1.2.2.167	53.5
2/27/15	6.1.2.2.167	53.4
3/4/15	6.1.2.2.179	53.3
3/5/15	6.1.2.2.179	53.4
3/6/15	6.1.2.2.179	53.3
3/9/15	6.1.2.2.179	53.3
3/12/15	6.1.2.2.179	53.3
3/13/15	6.1.2.2.179	53.3
3/26/15	6.1.2.2.179	53.3
3/31/15	6.2.2.4.124	53.3
5/6/15	6.2.2.4.188	52.8

 

[Andyw2100]

And I just posted this in the other thread, in response, along with data. (I'm not including the data here.)

This is strange.

You have 21" wheels and I have 19" wheels. So one possibility is that the correction has been made for 19" wheels, but not yet for 21" wheels.

The other possibility, I guess, is that somehow when my car was in for service the service center made some sort of adjustment to my odometer.

I only recorded a couple of trips after getting the car back from the service center on .168, before getting .188. My wheels were also changed at that time, but having snow tires on was not the cause of the error in the first place, because many people without snow tires were reporting the same error.

 

[yobigd20]

Isn't this inaccuracy normal as the tire tread wears down? And wouldn't that apply to every car not just the MS?

 

[dirkhh]

Posted this in the other thread:

And I just posted this in the other thread, in response, along with data. (I'm not including the data here.)

Maybe this is an indication that the two threads should be one? Just saying...

 

[Andyw2100]

Maybe this is an indication that the two threads should be one? Just saying...

I had started the new thread because I believed the problem was solved, and that that warranted having its own thread. It would probably be best if discussion on whether or not the problem is solved just stay in the other thread, which is here: P85D and S85D odometer inaccuracy corrected in firmware version 6.2.2.4.188

This thread has served its purpose, which was to confirm there was a problem. I had initially posted in this thread too, because all those who had been interested in the problem would, presumably, have been interested in knowing that it was now solved. (Although now that appears to not be the case.)

- - - Updated - - -

Isn't this inaccuracy normal as the tire tread wears down? And wouldn't that apply to every car not just the MS?

Some inaccuracy as the tire tread wears down would be expected. The issue was the Ds' odometers were significantly overstating the distance traveled when the tires were new. Which means they were going to overstate the distance traveled even more as the tires wore down.

 

[MarcG]

So, going to go with no change.

Sorry Andy, but I have to agree with Jason on this one.

I took a 76.7-mile trip (according to Google maps) yesterday and my P85D, with the 19" wheels and following the exact same route, reported 77.6 miles. So still about 1% over-estimating. And I'm on 2.4.188.

Oh, and I've also kept track of my commute almost every day since January, and although it's not nearly as long as yours, the distance hasn't changed.

 

[Andyw2100]

Sorry Andy, but I have to agree with Jason on this one.

I took a 76.7-mile trip (according to Google maps) yesterday and my P85D, with the 19" wheels and following the exact same route, reported 77.6 miles. So still about 1% over-estimating. And I'm on 2.4.188.

Oh, and I've also kept track of my commute almost every day since January, and although it's not nearly as long as yours, the distance hasn't changed.

OK, so it wasn't the firmware update that caused the change in my car.

In that case it could only be the wheel change or some adjustment made when the car was in for service.

I don't understand how the wheel change alone could be responsible, as many people who reported the same issue I did were already driving on the tires and wheels I just switched to--the 19" cyclone wheels with the stock all-season tires.

I'll see if I can find out if some adjustment was made to my odometer when the car was in for service.

I'll also write to a moderator to ask that this thread be merged with the original one, so the title doesn't mislead anyone, since clearly the thread title must be wrong.