Does anybody notice phantom braking while on TACC with 8.3 or 8.5?

[tslaEbay]

To all model 3 owners...with FW 8.3 or 8.5

While on TACC...does anyone of you notice the following?

1. phantom braking (car slows down for no apparent reason)
2. stops bit far away from front car on the stop and go traffic
3. Takes bit extra time to start once the traffic starts moving
4. The starting from dead stop is jerky

The TACC was so smooth before 8.3.
Several of MX/MS owners
Checking whether this is S/X issue or applies to model 3 too.

2017 MX AP2 FSD

 

[JeffK]

Yes. Noticed with 2019.5.15+

 

[mike123abc]

It seems a lot worse with this release (8.5). The problem is that it brakes fast, hesitates as it assesses the situation then accelerates too quickly and ends off braking again to get back to the original speed. You are jerked around too much instead smoothing it out to where you might not notice...

 

[SSonnentag]

Lots of it. My wife makes me drive without AP when she is in the car. For some reason she has an aversion to whiplash. Go figure.

Currently on 2019.8.4

 

[mike123abc]

I know Elon has stated that the current NOA software only uses 80% of the hardware capacity, but I think it is overwhelmed now...

The navigate on autopilot with automatic lane changes without confirmations has essentially yielded an overload of the autopilot. Phantom braking is probably the worst feature since it jerks you around a lot for no reason. A car turns in front of you across your lane, you end up braking suddenly then accelerating back up too much then braking again -- but the car was out of your lane before the original braking started... I drive a lot of rural highways. When I see a car turn and cross in front of me I brace for the inevitable brake speed brake sequence of autopilot even though the car has cleared my lane before the first braking happens...

 

[SSonnentag]

Break = destruction of an object.
Brake = slowing of an object.

 

[tslaEbay]

@mike123abc....thanks for the feedback.
In my case..I did not even turn of NOA no confirm option. So that branch of the code should not be even enabled.
I'm just using TACC.
It is frustrating that they don't realize this is a serious issue. Sudden braking can confuse the rear driver and result in accident.
I'm not using TACC at higher speeds any more.
Does anybody experience sudden slow down from 70 mph to 50 mph and then to 70 mph?

 

[Powered By Jay]

Yes phantom braking got worse for me with the 8.5 update. Also a little jerky when the car in front of me changes out of my lane and my car starts to accelerate.

 

[Knightshade]

I know Elon has stated that the current NOA software only uses 80% of the hardware capacity, but I think it is overwhelmed now...

The navigate on autopilot with automatic lane changes without confirmations has essentially yielded an overload of the autopilot. Phantom braking is probably the worst feature since it jerks you around a lot for no reason. A car turns in front of you across your lane, you end up braking suddenly then accelerating back up too much then braking again -- but the car was out of your lane before the original braking started... I drive a lot of rural highways. When I see a car turn and cross in front of me I brace for the inevitable brake speed brake sequence of autopilot even though the car has cleared my lane before the first braking happens...

You are using AP on a type of road the manual explicitly tells you it's not intended to be used

That's not Teslas fault- it's yours.

 

[tslaEbay]

It happens on regular 4 lane freeway too.

 

[TravisCindy]

My 3 is nearly undrivable after the last update. Phantom braking, it thinks it’s surrounded at all times by large trucks and throws a tantrum when I want to change lanes. Next stop- pop in at a service center.

It makes my 2016 X with AP1 feel much more confident, smooth and refined.

 

[Cycle11111]

I have had the opposite experience with 8.5. Still some but less phantom breaking. On earlier releases I constantly had the break before passing under certain bridges while on the highway and I haven’t had that version of pb occurring yet in 8.5 after two weeks and I drive a lot with EP and NOA - no lane change confirm.

 

[ent3ndu]

It seems a lot worse with this release (8.5). The problem is that it brakes fast, hesitates as it assesses the situation then accelerates too quickly and ends off braking again to get back to the original speed. You are jerked around too much instead smoothing it out to where you might not notice...

What's happening is AP thinks a car that's really in the adjacent lane is coming into your lane. Next time it happens look on your display for the dark car (the car it thinks is in front of you). Guaranteed it's some phantom image.

 

[LyftupX]

Lately I’ve noticed a lot with TACC and AP.... it’s annoying and other folks must think we are idiots.

I have my foot more over the gas ready to
Press these days. Hope it gets fixed

 

[Sammydee]

On 8.3 .I can't drive in the carpool lane at commute times without turning TACC off completely. Otherwise phantom braking is uncomfortable and unsafe. Extremely disappointing.

 

[nvx1977]

I've heard that the neural net was significantly updated in recent firmware, and I can tell that the AP behavior is different. some things are working better, and some things have regressed. For me, I've seen a lot of braking for situations where the car used to never react. Def needs more fine tuning, but I think foundationally, the AI is better than before.

 

[mike123abc]

You are using AP on a type of road the manual explicitly tells you it's not intended to be used

That's not Teslas fault- it's yours.

Hardly

From page 67 of the manual:

"Traffic-Aware Cruise Control is primarily intended for driving on dry, straight roads, such as highways and freeways. It should not be used on city streets."

This is not happening on city streets but highways. I said it was happening on rural highways. Believe it or not, not all highways are divided...

 

[mike123abc]

It runs behind on other things. For example when a wide load is coming down the highway in the opposite direction, I tap the brakes cancelling autopilot and TACC, and move on to the right shoulder (in TX they are paved and wide enough to drive on) to give plenty of room. About a second or two after crossing the line I get the autopilot alert to take control immediately buzzer and red steering wheel pop up.. Really? It was already disabled and I am steering the car! It again is reacting a couple seconds delayed instead of the immediacy it should have.

 

[Knightshade]

Hardly

No, exactly.

From page 67 of the manual:

"Traffic-Aware Cruise Control is primarily intended for driving on dry, straight roads, such as highways and freeways. It should not be used on city streets."

This is not happening on city streets but highways. I said it was happening on rural highways. Believe it or not, not all highways are divided...

That's great- but I said Autopilot, not TACC. So, in fact, did you in the original post I was replying to. AP is more limited than TACC alone in where it is intended to be used.


Speaking of which- page 74 of the manual mentions it " is intended for use only by a fully attentive driver on freeways and highways where access is limited by entry and exit ramps"


Also known as a divided, limited access, highway.

AP is explicitly not intended for a road where people will be turning in front of you across your lane

So....user error as I said.

 

[mike123abc]

AP is explicitly not intended for a road where people will be turning in front of you across your lane

So....user error as I said.

Navigate on autopilot does not run on these roads. It goes to just autopilot lane keeping and TACC.

Autopilot is a large encompassing program with lots of features including lane keeping and TACC which you get when buying the EAP. . The automatic lane changes/automatic exit NOA is limited to limited access freeways. Autopilot lane keeping function is intended to work on these roads (unless they have too many twists and turns as mentioned in the manual).

The whole thread is about TACC braking when it should not.

This is not user error using TACC on a rural highway.