While commuting, I wonder if I should simply use autopilot to save more battery. What do you guys think? Assuming you are driving almost same speed and other conditions are same.
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Does autopilot consume more battery compared to driving without, given everything else is same?
- Thread starter kms3
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It's pretty much the same as a human, though if you're careful i bet a human driver can beat autopilot as we can be slightly smoother with braking/acceleration which is always more efficient - but it's going to be very similar.
FlyinDelorean
Member
I agree. There are times when you can tell a light is red or there's a stop sign whereas the ICE car in front of you will do a rapid deceleration. If you don't have someone right behind you, you can really just coast to the same spot whereas autopilot will be less inclined to begin a slow deceleration, as you already know the light or sign is there whereas autopilot doesn't. This is where you can significantly perform well with regenerative breaking on your own. Also deceleration while going downhill as opposed to maintaining a constant speed. This may all change when the car starts recognizing street lights and stop signs.
But on a long trip on the open highway I think this really becomes far less of a factor.
Are you asking if Autosteer makes a difference, or just TACC? I doubt that the car steers any more efficiently, so the variable would be the cruise control.
On hills, humans CAN be more efficient because they do not insist that the car stay at exactly a certain set speed. Allowing the car to slow a little on hill climbs and coast a little on downhills is slightly more efficient, but not really very much. Hypermilers are getting Model 3s and have every intention of seeing what they can do, but we rarely hear from them again.
On hills, humans CAN be more efficient because they do not insist that the car stay at exactly a certain set speed. Allowing the car to slow a little on hill climbs and coast a little on downhills is slightly more efficient, but not really very much. Hypermilers are getting Model 3s and have every intention of seeing what they can do, but we rarely hear from them again.
If you are willing to pay attention, you can certainly beat the autopilot in terms of efficiency. I find that on the highway the TACC settings are too aggressive - both for braking and accelerating. I am sure there is energy to be saved there. That being said, I am not a hypermiler, and I use TACC for convenience.
If you're paying attention as a human, you can do a lot to anticipate what is going to happen in 10 or 20 seconds based on road conditions & the cars ahead of you - no need to speed up when you can tell cars way ahead are about to slow down. You can anticipate better than the car can. You can also do things like pick up extra speed going down one hill to bleed it off going up the next hill; the most efficient speed is variable, not constant.
But if you're not paying attention as a human, and you're frequently speeding up and slowing down because of other traffic, you can be better off letting TACC do it. Also, if you're impatient and need to drive at 70 mph, but can be comfortable letting Autopilot drive at 55 while you listen to a podcast and relax, then you'll definitely save energy by letting Autopilot drive.
I'd like for Tesla to introduce a "miser" mode which uses AP but tries to be much smoother to improve efficiency, which allows deviation above/below the target speed, etc, which can learn a particular route to anticipate (when there's a hard curve coming up that requires slowing down, you don't need to be speeding up just before, etc.)
But if you're not paying attention as a human, and you're frequently speeding up and slowing down because of other traffic, you can be better off letting TACC do it. Also, if you're impatient and need to drive at 70 mph, but can be comfortable letting Autopilot drive at 55 while you listen to a podcast and relax, then you'll definitely save energy by letting Autopilot drive.
I'd like for Tesla to introduce a "miser" mode which uses AP but tries to be much smoother to improve efficiency, which allows deviation above/below the target speed, etc, which can learn a particular route to anticipate (when there's a hard curve coming up that requires slowing down, you don't need to be speeding up just before, etc.)
Every automated system (from cruise control to autopilot) always uses some kind of speed setting as the target. This results in too rapid braking, too rapid acceleration, and not enough leeway in high and low speed differences which can make a large difference in energy used. A human will always be able to do better until an energy conservation algorithm is developed. However, the human has to practice and be aware in order to be better. In addition the human needs real instrumentation to see reasonably precise levels of power output. Instrumentation is required because the driving experience is subjective. Some days the car just feels faster than it does on other days. Instrumentation reduces the subjectivity. The new style energy graph is 100% useless because the first tick is stupidly set at 75 kW. It needs to have ticks at 10, 20, 30, and 40 kW. Over 40 kW and the driver should be looking at the road, never at the graph.
All that said, a driver with an uneducated foot will not do as well as the automatics. It takes practice to get good (not as much practice as learning the violin).
All that said, a driver with an uneducated foot will not do as well as the automatics. It takes practice to get good (not as much practice as learning the violin).
@jerry33 - agreed. I'd love to have a Nerd Mode which shows a lot more information, including instantaneous power draw/charge rage, details on batt stat (charge, but also temp, heating/cooling demands).
Sometimes, the auto might be able to be more efficient on an unfamiliar road - if the human doesn't know the upcoming turns/terrain, the auto might be able to optimize better. But, for now, it's not trying to be particularly energy-efficient, so it doesn't matter.
In addition to a Miser Mode for AP, I'd also like to have a Miser Mode routing option - just like choosing whether or not to Avoid Tolls, I'd like the option to pick the more energy-efficient route instead of the more time-efficient route.
Sometimes, the auto might be able to be more efficient on an unfamiliar road - if the human doesn't know the upcoming turns/terrain, the auto might be able to optimize better. But, for now, it's not trying to be particularly energy-efficient, so it doesn't matter.
In addition to a Miser Mode for AP, I'd also like to have a Miser Mode routing option - just like choosing whether or not to Avoid Tolls, I'd like the option to pick the more energy-efficient route instead of the more time-efficient route.
I'm not a hypermiler, but I do like to be efficient. The biggest contribution to inefficiency is the HVAC system. Agreed with others that if you're looking for every last drop of efficiency, a human controller is going to do better than the TACC controller.
Manually control the HVAC, and you'll see huge efficiency gains over not using TACC/AP. And I'm not suggesting suffering through frigid or hot temps. The HVAC controller is quite wasteful when temps are more bearable. In those situations, turn the thing off and watch your efficiency numbers soar. I have the numbers (and screenshots) to prove it.
Manually control the HVAC, and you'll see huge efficiency gains over not using TACC/AP. And I'm not suggesting suffering through frigid or hot temps. The HVAC controller is quite wasteful when temps are more bearable. In those situations, turn the thing off and watch your efficiency numbers soar. I have the numbers (and screenshots) to prove it.
Does things like not using phone key disabling auto power off save energy? What is Hypermiler? I just would like to save unnecessary consumption of energy. HVAC is turned off and used only as needed. Paying attention to sudden acceleration perhaps helps. I am trying to figure out if there is way to measure how efficiently I drove.
FlyinDelorean
Member
Hypermiling involves adjusting your driving techniques to maximize the battery efficiency (essentially get the best KWH efficiency possible) by either modifying the car, driving a certain way, or both. Assume, for instance, that you were driving on a steep downward incline for an hour. Theoretically, you would have achieved efficiency well over the rated miles per KWH if you let the car coast down the incline. This is because the car is capable of regenerating some power when there is forward momentum greater than current acceleration. This is that concept. There is a guy who drove 606 miles on a single charge. But I think this was done on a closed circuit or just by going around in circles really slow or something. Essentially, you could hypermile by limiting your acceleration, and driving really slow or at a variable rate of speed. Some common changes are also actually switching to aero wheels while still lowering the suspension (Performance model). Folding or removing the side mirrors since mirrors produce 10% drag through air. That kind of thing. But for most of us normal people, it just involves driving conservatively and not slamming the accelerator much or even using the actual breaks much.
Also none of that other stuff really saves energy. The car goes to sleep when its not in use. The amount of energy the phone key uses is negligible. Unless you keep checking the phone app - then you will keep waking up the car.
Yeah, better save that $2/mo in charging costs by making the car less comfortable and enjoyable.
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
A focused and talented driver can beat the automatic cruise in fuel economy if that is their sole priority. Usually means coasting as much as possible and being easy on the throttle. I see drivers like this all the time, concentrating solely on fuel economy, and they pretty much drive like jerks.
The cruise will typically give better mileage than an inattentive driver, but worse than someone focused on the best efficiency.
Usually this is less about saving money than "winning" some sort of contest.
Friend, driving a leaf, seemed to spend all his attention trying to get his display to grow the most amount of leaves, indicating efficient driving. He drove like a tool.
The cruise will typically give better mileage than an inattentive driver, but worse than someone focused on the best efficiency.
Usually this is less about saving money than "winning" some sort of contest.
Friend, driving a leaf, seemed to spend all his attention trying to get his display to grow the most amount of leaves, indicating efficient driving. He drove like a tool.
