Does FSD Subscription freeze your software updates?

[timothyd]

Received our MYLR 2023 in December, waited about 2 weeks in the FSD queue before getting into the beta. February 15th had a AP computer replacement, recall was announced on the 16th however the car was updated to 2023.2.12 (or the new computer installed was pre flashed). There was no apparent way to request FSD just a greyed out button.

My question / thoughts are the following.

Since 2/15/2023 no updates have been pushed to my car, still on 2023.2.12 and vehicles in my manufacturing cohort according to Teslafi have been largely moved to 2.6.+

Is Tesla refraining from updating to the later version because of the active FSD subscription?

The new UI suggests to me that this waiting / queue system might be coming to a close and you’ll be able to flip it on once you pay for it and firmwares align.

Major lesson for folks right now, unless the problem is really annoying or unsafe maybe don’t let service centers touch your AP computer for now. I feel like Bicentennial man, asking USR not to touch Andrew’s positronic pathways.

Thanks for listening!

 

[E90alex]

Yes. FSB beta is on an older base level software (2022.45.X) than the general cars so the car cannot update until the FSD beta version is newer than the current installed version.

My guess is Tesla still has your car enrolled in beta in their system since technically you didn’t unenroll from beta yourself, and therefore they’re not pushing you the general updates since your car should still be on beta software.

But also Tesla software rollout is in batches and not every version hits every car, so perhaps they stopped or slowed rollout for whatever reason.

 

[DelPhonic1]

I'm in the same boat. GPS froze, and the SC replaced a computer, now Beta is gone, but I'm at 2023.2.10. Hopefully they'll update Beta to 2023 soon.

 

[timothyd]

It appears they told NTHSA that the fix should be out on 4/15 so hopefully they just cut the release and move to the newest branch. I understand why they develop on the older release but since everyone who pays can get now just get it (not withstanding this recall) it feels weird that there are 2 OS’s. My guess is that it won’t be until May at the point, it’s moving very slowly.

 

[ewoodrick]

I'm in the same boat. GPS froze, and the SC replaced a computer, now Beta is gone, but I'm at 2023.2.10. Hopefully they'll update Beta to 2023 soon.

As far as I know, a 2023 update is for non-FSD cars. focusing on the cars without USS.

I'm on FSD and at 2022.45.13.

 

[ewoodrick]

Received our MYLR 2023 in December, waited about 2 weeks in the FSD queue before getting into the beta. February 15th had a AP computer replacement, recall was announced on the 16th however the car was updated to 2023.2.12 (or the new computer installed was pre flashed). There was no apparent way to request FSD just a greyed out button.

My question / thoughts are the following.

Since 2/15/2023 no updates have been pushed to my car, still on 2023.2.12 and vehicles in my manufacturing cohort according to Teslafi have been largely moved to 2.6.+

Is Tesla refraining from updating to the later version because of the active FSD subscription?

The new UI suggests to me that this waiting / queue system might be coming to a close and you’ll be able to flip it on once you pay for it and firmwares align.

Major lesson for folks right now, unless the problem is really annoying or unsafe maybe don’t let service centers touch your AP computer for now. I feel like Bicentennial man, asking USR not to touch Andrew’s positronic pathways.

Thanks for listening!

Did you purchase FSD when you bought the car? If not, you probably got the non-FSD update which is dated this year. The current FSD update is dated last year.

 

[MARKM3]

It appears they told NTHSA that the fix should be out on 4/15 so hopefully they just cut the release and move to the newest branch. I understand why they develop on the older release but since everyone who pays can get now just get it (not withstanding this recall) it feels weird that there are 2 OS’s. My guess is that it won’t be until May at the point, it’s moving very slowly.

I don’t know how Tesla expects to sell FSD subscriptions when the branches are separate. Seems to me like a very strange business practice. I’m still waiting for FSD to get to the 2023 branch before I subscribe.

 

[DelPhonic1]

I had beta before the replaced my computer.

As far as I know, a 2023 update is for non-FSD cars. focusing on the cars without USS.

I'm on FSD and at 2022.45.13.

I’ve driven Beta off/on since December ‘22. When I bought Plaid i had to re-enter the cue, finally got beta after months and months, then took to the service center where the replaced with a new computer which involuntarily took me to 2023.2.10 which of course isn’t beta. My Plaid does have USS, though I’m pretty sure latest software versions downloaded don’t use them.

 

[E90alex]

I don’t know how Tesla expects to sell FSD subscriptions when the branches are separate. Seems to me like a very strange business practice. I’m still waiting for FSD to get to the 2023 branch before I subscribe.

FSD branch is not separate.

FSD beta branch is separate.

You can subscribe to FSD and get access to regular FSD features immediately without wanting the beta.

 

[MARKM3]

FSD branch is not separate.

FSD beta branch is separate.

You can subscribe to FSD and get access to regular FSD features immediately without wanting the beta.

Irregardless, the added features arguably make the driving experience worse than using basic autopilot. I’ve used them. For $200 a month it’s a rip off without actual FSD Beta. NoAP to me isn’t even worth 6k.

At least with basic autopilot I don’t have to constantly confirm with the accelerator pedal when coming up to green lights, being reminded by the premature breaking - It’s so annoying that feature is useless. Why not just chime with hands on yoke? Would solve that headache instantly.

Auto lane change works fine but it’s not worth 6k or $200 a month. It doesn’t always do speed based lane changes to my liking.

On ramp/off ramps take them way too fast and too hit and miss to even consider.

Overall since 2018 I’m pretty disappointed with the progress of enhanced autopilot progression and the lack of transparency with FSD beta.

 

[ewoodrick]

FSD branch is not separate.

FSD beta branch is separate.

You can subscribe to FSD and get access to regular FSD features immediately without wanting the beta.

You've got me confused, what's the difference?

 

[ewoodrick]

At least with basic autopilot I don’t have to constantly confirm with the accelerator pedal when coming up to green lights, being reminded by the premature breaking - It’s so annoying that feature is useless. Why not just chime with hands on yoke? Would solve that headache instantly.

With the latest FSD beta update, one of the features is a much more natural deceleration to stops. I'll add that I think that they got it about as good as needed.

 

[E90alex]

You've got me confused, what's the difference?

FSD is just EAP with traffic light and stop sign control. It has navigate on autopilot on the highway but can’t make turns on city streets.

FSD beta is the new stack with autosteer on city streets and point to point navigation.

 

[ewoodrick]

I don’t know how Tesla expects to sell FSD subscriptions when the branches are separate. Seems to me like a very strange business practice. I’m still waiting for FSD to get to the 2023 branch before I subscribe.

The software is in a non-optimal state right now. I'm sure that this is not intended to be a long term state. The FSD Beta thread was separated early last year to allow the combined engine to be implemented. There were a few tweaks to the other stack, mainly the Christmas update. At that time I'm sure that the intent was to bring the two branches together. But two things interrupted the process. The first is that the combined stack branch wasn't performing as well as needed. The other was that the USS sensor removal was becoming a bigger issue. And then to top it off, the NHTSA recall got thrown in.

So the team seemed to have decided to put the difference branches into public use to solve the immediate requirements.

 

[MARKM3]

The software is in a non-optimal state right now. I'm sure that this is not intended to be a long term state. The FSD Beta thread was separated early last year to allow the combined engine to be implemented. There were a few tweaks to the other stack, mainly the Christmas update. At that time I'm sure that the intent was to bring the two branches together. But two things interrupted the process. The first is that the combined stack branch wasn't performing as well as needed. The other was that the USS sensor removal was becoming a bigger issue. And then to top it off, the NHTSA recall got thrown in.

So the team seemed to have decided to put the difference branches into public use to solve the immediate requirements.

That’s fair; I hope they bring back the two branches into one so people who pay for FSD actually get something for their money.

No transparency on Teslas part that FSD doesn’t give you beta on new cars & with no estimated wide release on Tesla’s behalf is concerning. If it works on 2022 branch, it can work on 2023 as well. Who cares if it doesn’t do what NHTSA says, Tesla has willing pushed V11.3.x to majority of the FSD fleet as of today so clearly they can release it wide to the full fleet.

The driver is still responsible for overriding and the car can’t be held liable. It’s a BS recall to begin with.

 

[MP3Mike]

It appears they told NTHSA that the fix should be out on 4/15 so hopefully they just cut the release and move to the newest branch.

Where did you see that? Or are you talking about Tesla saying that they will mail a notice about the recall by April 15th? That notice could say that the update is not yet available, and they will contact you again once it is. (That is how the Model 3 rear camera harness recall was handled.)

But for the most part Tesla has already released the recall fix to most of the existing FSD beta users. (In the 2022.45.11+ builds.) Nobody knows when they will integrate the FSD beta into a current 2023 build.

 

[MP3Mike]

Who cares if it doesn’t do what NHTSA says,

They actually can't push the FSD Beta out if it doesn't include the fixes to the recall. That would be illegal. (Just like they can't sell a new car that has an outstanding recall on it.)

 

[timothyd]

The car I’m complaining about is on the subcription,

FSD branch is not separate.

FSD beta branch is separate.

You can subscribe to FSD and get access to regular FSD features immediately without wanting the beta.

This is an obnoxious semantic that is used to basically keep a dubiously legal product relegated to a few while funding it’s development. This is even tacitly admitted to by Tesla them selves with their inclusion of a FSD toggle in the 2023 branch. “FSD” just gives you a toggle for traffic light stopping.

 

[timothyd]

Where did you see that? Or are you talking about Tesla saying that they will mail a notice about the recall by April 15th? That notice could say that the update is not yet available, and they will contact you again once it is. (That is how the Model 3 rear camera harness recall was handled.)

But for the most part Tesla has already released the recall fix to most of the existing FSD beta users. (In the 2022.45.11+ builds.) Nobody knows when they will integrate the FSD beta into a current 2023 build.

FSD branch is not separate.

FSD beta branch is separate.

You can subscribe to FSD and get access to regular FSD features immediately without wanting the beta.

also see this tweet

https://twitter.com/x/status/1595682322707267584

 

[timothyd]

That’s fair; I hope they bring back the two branches into one so people who pay for FSD actually get something for their money.

No transparency on Teslas part that FSD doesn’t give you beta on new cars & with no estimated wide release on Tesla’s behalf is concerning. If it works on 2022 branch, it can work on 2023 as well. Who cares if it doesn’t do what NHTSA says, Tesla has willing pushed V11.3.x to majority of the FSD fleet as of today so clearly they can release it wide to the full fleet.

The driver is still responsible for overriding and the car can’t be held liable. It’s a BS recall to begin with.

This is very interesting.