Does the $5k P85D upgrade get you a ludicrous P85D or a ludicrous P90D?

[brianman]

(a) I don't even understand.

(b) Musk should just stop innovating, go back to marginal yearly model upgrades like every other model, and just stop making Tesla awesome because some people aren't happy with the car they bought.

(a) Clearly. If you don't understand by now, with multiple people addressing it from multiple angles across several threads it's unlikely you'll ever understand it. That doesn't mean it isn't a problem.
(b) That's not what anyone has said in the last 5 threads on or near this topic. And I'm pretty sure none of the active posters in those threads would agree with it.

 

[yo mama]

FWIW - This is not the case with what my DES told me. Here's the verbiage from the e-mail (no edits by me of course):

Thanks Tim.

An update to add some clarification:
As I mentioned before, you can upgrade your P85D to Ludicrous speed for $5000 + labor (haven’t been able to get an approximation for labor just yet). So you would have a P85D with Ludicrous mode
I am also being told that you will have the option to upgrade to the 90 kWh battery if you choose but pricing and labor are pending (the difference here being that all new cars ordered with ludicrous speed option are forced into the 90 kWh battery option at time of order)

Well, crud. As they say, "que sera, sera - whatever will be, will be. The future's still ludicrous for me, que sera, sera."

 

[sorka]

I don't even understand.

Musk should just stop innovating, go back to marginal yearly model upgrades like every other model, and just stop making Tesla awesome because some people aren't happy with the car they bought.

No, I'm pretty sure I'd be happy if I got the car I paid for

 

[commasign]

My guess on pricing:

90kWh battery upgrade would be $47,564 ($44,564 for a new 85kWh battery plus $3,000 differential for the larger pack) plus $40 (price of a 1 way battery swap) minus $35,651 (trade-invalue of a used 85kWh pack which is $44,564 minus a 20% restocking fee) = $11,953.

Ref:

Life With Tesla Model S: Battery Upgrade From 60 kWh To 85 kWh (Page 3)

FWIW - This is not the case with what my DES told me. Here's the verbiage from the e-mail (no edits by me of course):

Thanks Tim.

An update to add some clarification:
As I mentioned before, you can upgrade your P85D to Ludicrous speed for $5000 + labor (haven’t been able to get an approximation for labor just yet). So you would have a P85D with Ludicrous mode
I am also being told that you will have the option to upgrade to the 90 kWh battery if you choose but pricing and labor are pending (the difference here being that all new cars ordered with ludicrous speed option are forced into the 90 kWh battery option at time of order)

 

[kirkbauer]

Ref:

Life With Tesla Model S: Battery Upgrade From 60 kWh To 85 kWh (Page 3)

Wow, I had no idea you could upgrade a 60 to an 85...

 

[SJL]

Does anyone know how an existing P85D owner can actually go about ordering the Ludicrous Mode upgrade? I have called my local Tesla Service Center and they have no idea how to proceed.

 

[LetsGoFast]

Does anyone know how an existing P85D owner can actually go about ordering the Ludicrous Mode upgrade? I have called my local Tesla Service Center and they have no idea how to proceed.

At this moment, no one has been given a definitive start date when they will begin the installs. No one has reported having the upgrade performed either. Some service centers will "put your name on a list" and others just say they don't know anything about how it is going to work.

Some people have been given hypothetical future dates it might happen and at least one person has been told they don't expect to start until December or so.

I have come to the conclusion that the people who might know are all located at the factory and they aren't saying for whatever reason. If you held a gun to my head and forced me to guess, I'd bet that Elon made the announcement before they were actually ready to obtain the parts in quantity -- either the fuse or the contactor is probably in short supply and they simply don't yet have a sufficient supply to support new car builds and existing car upgrades. Obviously, they are going to prioritize new car builds if they do in fact have a supply pipeline issue. My bet would be that the inconel contactor is the problem child, since inconel is a notoriously difficult material to shape and machine. They probably made the announcement when they had good results with test parts and haven't been able to ramp up production as quickly as they hoped.

 

[SJL]

Thanks for the info!! The original press release stated that existing owners will have a 6 month window in which to upgrade. I've got to believe the clock will start running once the upgrade is actually available.

 

[SherSlick]

Thanks for the info!! The original press release stated that existing owners will have a 6 month window in which to upgrade. I've got to believe the clock will start running once the upgrade is actually available.

This had better be the case if you ask me. I don't mind a limit to the deal, but not being able to buy before the limit runs out would leave me quite upset.

 

[Andyw2100]

This was your original mistatement



which implies that no matter what one upgrade cost the other was included in the same price.

The first Google hit for the poor pricing I got was Tesla announces Model S Ludicrous upgrade, 90-kWh battery but I didn't feel like digging through the other 475,000 results.

what I actually wrote was $8000 or so with there being a significance to the "or so" that you missed. I don't know how much the labor or tax will cost and the first Google result I found said $5000 for one and $3000 for the other. I thought it was clear that "or so" meant it would cost more but apparently I should have used a larger disclaimer.

I didn't bother searching any harder because as this thread and others have shown it is next to impossible to nail down actual costs for upgrades. I figured that horse had been beaten enough and chose to say "or so".

I see now that I left out the punctuation between "or so" and the following fragment, it should have been more like

"Heck if you upgrade the pack from 85 to 90 and get the insane to ludicrous upgrade at the same time spending $8000 or so, they should throw the LTE upgrade in for free."

maybe with the comma in there you would have read the sentence differently? Or maybe anything less than a 4 paragraph disclaimer would have triggered a discussion of how much more installation would cost.

OK, now that you've cleared that up, I'm glad we're having this discussion, because I stand by my original post, and your understanding of this stuff is wrong.

The $5000 is just for the Ludicrous Mode update.

The $3000 figure you found is the cost difference, for someone ordering a new car, between the two different packs. So a 90, when ordered new, will cost $3,000 more than an 85.

It has been discussed fairly extensively here on TMC, and concluded that there is no possible way Tesla is going to take in any used 85 pack and provide a new 90 pack for $3000. Wayner has a used 85 pack.

You were, in fact, suggesting that the two upgrades together would cost in the neighborhood of $8000 ($5,000 and $3,000) because you combined the cost of the $5000 Ludicrous upgrade announced for existing P85Ds with the $3,000 incremental cost to go from an 85 to a 90 when configuring a new car. Those two numbers, for those two upgrades, won't ever happen on the same car.

 

[dhanson865]

OK, now that you've cleared that up, I'm glad we're having this discussion, because I stand by my original post, and your understanding of this stuff is wrong.

The $5000 is just for the Ludicrous Mode update.

The $3000 figure you found is the cost difference, for someone ordering a new car, between the two different packs. So a 90, when ordered new, will cost $3,000 more than an 85.

It has been discussed fairly extensively here on TMC, and concluded that there is no possible way Tesla is going to take in any used 85 pack and provide a new 90 pack for $3000. Wayner has a used 85 pack.

You were, in fact, suggesting that the two upgrades together would cost in the neighborhood of $8000 ($5,000 and $3,000) because you combined the cost of the $5000 ludicrous upgrade announced for existing P85Ds with the $3,000 incremental cost to go from an 85 to a 90 when configuring a new car.

No my understanding wasn't wrong.

Like I said before I googled a quick number and quoted it.

That isn't a problem in understanding. I understand it will cost more than that. I was just lazy in how I worded it.

The $3000 figure I quoted is from a poorly worded article that you and I both would call "wrong". I just didn't bother to go further.

No I didn't suggest they would be in the neighborhood of $8000, I suggested they would be above $8000. You just didn't get my gist.

I'm OK with you saying I worded it poorly just don't say I said something I didn't and don't say I don't understand. You are inferring something I didn't imply.

State for the others what you think the upgrade costs will be and stop trying to pick apart my hurried post.



edit: This post was moved from another thread and is now out of context. It definitely apllies to the context of the new thread but is from the middle of a 6+ post exchange that has since terminated. I just don't want someone replying to this out of context thinking it was a new post in this thread.

 

[smac]

Finding out that your car missed out on a new hardware feature that's expensive/impossible to retrofit is just the way it goes. Tesla are only obligated to deliver you the car you ordered. Be grateful you didn't pick up a car in September 14 just before they started fitting the autopilot sensors..

Well in the UK at least you could reject a P85D, and reorder at no cost under Sale of goods act. The 0-60 doesn't meet claims on the original car, and in the UK 0 means zero, not 4mph from a roll out

Just like auto-pilot hardware (which like you I missed out on after a 14 month wait) it will negatively effect the resale valuation formula Tesla themselves use. On this basis alone I would be massively tempted if my car was being delivered next month to take this approach!

Of course this is a RHD specific issue, as many owners have been waiting such a long time (with huge delays) only to get an "obsolete" car is disappointing in itself. But as a repetition of the original launch it is particularly poor.

BTW I'm sure the UK team are acutely aware of this frustration, and I don't blame them, rather "Tesla Corporate". OK It was really unfortunate timing last year, and they did get grief over the situation. To find themselves in this position again must be extremely frustrating for UK staff.

I really think for the UK market it should be an FOC upgrade, and Tesla should just stomach it, to show there is some commitment to the special circumstances of the RHD market.

 

[J1mbo]

@smac I think the sale of goods act applies here about as much as an ICE manufacturer's quoted mpg and CO2 figures apply.

 

[smac]

@smac I think the sale of goods act applies here about as much as an ICE manufacturer's quoted mpg and CO2 figures apply.

I'm not sure this is true. This is a distance selling purchase and SOGA now includes distance selling after being rolled together under an EU directive for consumer protection.

The rules are pretty clear on cars, if you have configured from a menu this isn't a "personalisation", so it would still apply:
Does the distance sale cooling-off period apply to you? - Citizens Advice


Now whether to go through with it or not, and probably face going through the small claims court to reclaim your deposit on the basis of "not as advertised", or just use as a lever to get a significant discount, free servicing, free ludicrous upgrade or some other sweetener is debatable. But I for sure would have no quarms with using consumer legislation in situations like this. (And I know from previous conversations you don't either when it comes to breaking finance agreements half way through )

 

[J1mbo]

I'm not sure this is true. This is a distance selling purchase and SOGA now includes distance selling after being rolled together under an EU directive for consumer protection.

The rules are pretty clear on cars, if you have configured from a menu this isn't a "personalisation", so it would still apply:
Does the distance sale cooling-off period apply to you? - Citizens Advice

Raises an interesting thought: if you ordered it online, but collected it and signed the final contract of sale in their showroom, is it still classified as a distance sale?

You would need to collect it to be able to prove that the actual car they sold you does not do 0-60 in 3.1s. And who knows, by now they might all have luda-fuses in them and be able to manage 3.1 with ease, even if they don't have the luda-software.

Now whether to go through with it or not, and probably face going through the small claims court to reclaim your deposit on the basis of "not as advertised", or just use as a lever to get a significant discount, free servicing, free ludicrous upgrade or some other sweetener is debatable. But I for sure would have no quarms with using consumer legislation in situations like this. (And I know from previous conversations you don't either when it comes to breaking finance agreements half way through )

LOL! FWIW, Voluntary Termination was explicity detailed in the finance agreements themselves, no need to threaten or take court action.

 

[smac]

Raises an interesting thought: if you ordered it online, but collected it and signed the final contract of sale in their showroom, is it still classified as a distance sale?

I'm pretty sure it does, which is partially why you have to go through the whole "delivery experience" then sign a load of bumpf at delivery. IT's effectively Tesla turning a "distance sale" into an "on premise sale"

You would need to collect it to be able to prove that the actual car they sold you does not do 0-60 in 3.1s. And who knows, by now they might all have luda-fuses in them and be able to manage 3.1 with ease, even if they don't have the luda-software.

I'm not sure you would.

Let's face it the real reason isn't the 0-60. It is because it is no longer top of the range, and as such maybe subject to a heavier Tesla resale penalty in % terms over the P90D (I don't know, and tbh no one probably does, but it's something I'd want clarification of here. We know non-auto pilot cars were penalised in this regard, but at the time those taking delivery didn't realise the new car was coming, and completed the deal anyway. At least here the cars haven't been handed over so you are in a MUCH stronger position)

TBH I'm not sure you actually need a reason. You can simply use cooling off. Now as for the £2k deposit, I'm not sure how water tight the deposit statement in the light of distance selling. So it could be tricky to get back (and why IF you attempted this you are likely facing small claims court, and state that the deposit was for an item that has been proven under independent testing to not substantiate the claims, and reference the CR report HIGHLY likely you would see it back).

LOL! FWIW, Voluntary Termination was explicity detailed in the finance agreements themselves, no need to threaten or take court action.

The only reason the voluntary termination is in the agreements is because it's a legal requirement under consumer finance protection rules, and it's original intent was to stop people getting in debt spirals, using it to get out of negative equity cars wasn't really the idea But yes mentioning it was it was in jest.

FWIW I'm not saying here to threaten court action, simply how IF someone was (in my view rightly) upset (as I was with AP after I found out it altered the value calculations) is now in a stronger position to ask for a discount or other sweetner, which I don't think would be completely unreasonable and is common industry practise on "out of date" models.

Realistically Tesla UK are in a bit of a bind here due to the timings, and FWIW I think the sensible thing would be to put Ludicrous on all the 85 cars ordered before the L was available on the website to order, and head this off before someone does actually refuse a car.

 

[tlazarus]

Hello
Im not sure if this is the correct place for this question, as Im just getting to know my way arounf the boards... but I'll post it and see what happens: Im very close to ordering a model S P85D and am wondering about the ludicrous option. Can anyone tell me whether it impacts the driving experience at other points than just start-up? Does it enhance passing at 70 mph? is there any change to the cruising experience?
Thanks

 

[Matias]

I think this is the most active thread conserving your questions

Dragtimes P90D Ludicrous 0-60mph and 0-100mph video

 

[kirkbauer]

Hello
Im not sure if this is the correct place for this question, as Im just getting to know my way arounf the boards... but I'll post it and see what happens: Im very close to ordering a model S P85D and am wondering about the ludicrous option. Can anyone tell me whether it impacts the driving experience at other points than just start-up? Does it enhance passing at 70 mph? is there any change to the cruising experience?
Thanks

i believe it should improve performance at all speeds since it increases the max current which is the limiting factor in performance other than from about 0-30.

 

[MartinG]

It appears that the upgrade only covers the fuse replacement allowing more power to be passed through it, thus the faster 0.2s acceleration. It doesn't include the battery upgrade to 90 kWh. The badging will add an underline to the existing P85D badge to indicate the ludicrous upgrade. The price isn't given but they're asking for a $500 pre-order nonrefundable deposit before we even know how much it will cost.

My sense is that this will be a good value investment as the increase in resale value will likely outweigh the cost of the upgrade.