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Does wall connector allow faster charging vs nema 14-50 for SR+ model 3 battery ?
- Thread starter coolmanfever
- Start date
I also own an SR+ and am planning to just have a NEMA 14-50 outlet installed and use the mobile connector that comes with the car. It is my understanding that the SR+ can only pull 32 amps and that the mobile connector supports up to 32 amps. Thus, for our purposes the wall connector would not provide faster charging, just more convenience/nicer aesthetic and the ability to charge a different model (maybe a future purchase) at a higher amperage. For me, the cost of the dedicated wall connector did not make sense compared to the $35 adapter and a 240v outlet that might provide more value to a future home buyer.
sacraM3nto
MYLR7 | MSM | BLK | 20” | OD 8.19.21 | DD 3.12.22
Came to say exactly what Jrm3 did! I had a 14-50 outlet installed and will be using the mobile connector for the same reason.
joebruin77
Active Member
I can think of at least 3 reasons to consider getting the wall connector (not sure if all apply to your situation):
1) Do you charge inside or outside? The Wall Connector is engineered and rated to be more weather resistant. The mobile charger is not. I would much rather charge in the rain using a Wall Connector than the mobile charger for this reason.
2) Check with your local utility to see if they offer a rebate for the Wall Connector. Many utilities offer a rebate for the Wall Connector but not a 14-50 outlet. The net cost for a Wall Connector may be less than you think.
3) I personally have both a Wall Connector and a 14-50 outlet. I like having a backup in case there is a problem with one or the other. Plus, if I have a friend visit who has a non-Tesla EV or if my wife buys a non-Tesla EV in the future, we already have a place to charge.
1) Do you charge inside or outside? The Wall Connector is engineered and rated to be more weather resistant. The mobile charger is not. I would much rather charge in the rain using a Wall Connector than the mobile charger for this reason.
2) Check with your local utility to see if they offer a rebate for the Wall Connector. Many utilities offer a rebate for the Wall Connector but not a 14-50 outlet. The net cost for a Wall Connector may be less than you think.
3) I personally have both a Wall Connector and a 14-50 outlet. I like having a backup in case there is a problem with one or the other. Plus, if I have a friend visit who has a non-Tesla EV or if my wife buys a non-Tesla EV in the future, we already have a place to charge.
iamnid
Active Member
SR+ on order here. I went through the same considerations as you. I ended up installing a NEMA 6-50 outlet and figure it can easily be swapped for a wall connector if I get a car in the future that can charge with more amps. I really don't know why the 14-50 is the go to around here. The wall connector uses the same number of wires as 6-50 and 6-50 is one less wire to run -- 6 gauge wire isn't cheap! I know, I know, "14-50 is used by RVs." 6-50 is used by welders... what's your point? I doubt many people installing a 14-50 have an RV or possibly space for an RV. It seems like most of these outlets we are installing will only ever see electric vehicle charging anyway.
srs5694
Active Member
Another point is that if you're building a new home, you can make decisions now that will impact how easy it will be to add infrastructure in the future, at low or no cost compared to making more extensive changes if you build it wrong today. Such choices include things like the location of the breaker box and providing adequate wiring going to the garage for higher-amperage charging, or for more EVSEs, in the future, if that becomes desirable. Personally, I wouldn't skimp on charging infrastructure in your situation. At a minimum, I'd ensure that the wiring going into the walls is capable of handling the top charging rates available today for home AC charging, which is 100A (80A to the car). Even if you choose to put that on a NEMA 14-50 plug with a 50A breaker, you'll be able to upgrade it in the future at minimal cost if and when that becomes desirable. You may want to talk to the electricians doing the work to discuss your concerns and ensure that you've got maximum flexibility for a likely EV-centric future.
eprosenx
Active Member
When building a new house I would absolutely be planning for electrification of all vehicles.
The minimum bar for me would be 6/2 copper Romex to each vehicle bay in the garage. Perhaps also wire to an outdoor location if I thought cars would be parked outside.
I would also make sure the main electrical service had the capacity needed to charge multiple cars (so a higher likelihood of upgrading from a 200a service to a 320a service).
Note that I am aware 6 awg NM cable is only rated for 40a continuous. If we are talking about cost effective homebuilding here, NM cable is the most cost effective (it is all that is used). 4 awg is hard to work with, is more expensive, and really, most folks average usage is never going to exceed 40a for overnight charging.
Now I will go overkill in my house of course because I can, but the reality is that the general public would be well served by 6awg romex, two conductor (plus ground) to each vehicle parking spot.
Do also note that the technology will improve and come down in price. The future of EV charging at home for all vehicles will require smarter EVSE’s that load share and can monitor the load on the main electrical service and slow down when needed to fit within the limits.
The important thing today is to spend money on the “right” wiring in the wall and making sure you have sufficient electrical service capacity.
The minimum bar for me would be 6/2 copper Romex to each vehicle bay in the garage. Perhaps also wire to an outdoor location if I thought cars would be parked outside.
I would also make sure the main electrical service had the capacity needed to charge multiple cars (so a higher likelihood of upgrading from a 200a service to a 320a service).
Note that I am aware 6 awg NM cable is only rated for 40a continuous. If we are talking about cost effective homebuilding here, NM cable is the most cost effective (it is all that is used). 4 awg is hard to work with, is more expensive, and really, most folks average usage is never going to exceed 40a for overnight charging.
Now I will go overkill in my house of course because I can, but the reality is that the general public would be well served by 6awg romex, two conductor (plus ground) to each vehicle parking spot.
Do also note that the technology will improve and come down in price. The future of EV charging at home for all vehicles will require smarter EVSE’s that load share and can monitor the load on the main electrical service and slow down when needed to fit within the limits.
The important thing today is to spend money on the “right” wiring in the wall and making sure you have sufficient electrical service capacity.
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Unless you drive a LOT every day, the charging speed is pretty irrelevant. You'll be charged overnight.
because the car previously came with the 14-50 adapter.
Black306
Active Member
That is one regret my wife and I have about building our house; we held back on options/upgrades. I would recommend not thinking about what you are doing with the house today, but what you’ll do with the house in the future. Adding wiring while a house is being built is MUCH easier than once it’s complete.
I’d suggest at least having the garage wired with a 100A dedicated circuit AND a NEMA 14-50. Even if you don’t install a Wall Connector today, the 100A wiring will be in the wall and available if/when you need it.
I recommend a 14-50 over a 6-50 because a 14-50 has a neutral wire. A neutral wire is not needed for a mobile connector, but it might be needed for something else in the future. It’s easy to go from a 14-50 to a 6-50 outlet, but you can’t go from a 6-50 to a 14-50.
I’d suggest at least having the garage wired with a 100A dedicated circuit AND a NEMA 14-50. Even if you don’t install a Wall Connector today, the 100A wiring will be in the wall and available if/when you need it.
I recommend a 14-50 over a 6-50 because a 14-50 has a neutral wire. A neutral wire is not needed for a mobile connector, but it might be needed for something else in the future. It’s easy to go from a 14-50 to a 6-50 outlet, but you can’t go from a 6-50 to a 14-50.
I agree. I charge at 240V/30A and rarely charge more than 2 hours at a time. Last year I drove over 10,000 miles so I do put miles on the car.
eprosenx
Active Member
So I can't fault you for this logic (as indeed 14-50 is extremely popular), however, if I look into my crystal ball, the future is that all vehicles are electric and so the commodity builders and mainstream buyers are going to force inefficiencies out of EV charging. The Neutral line is a complete waste for EV charging. So while 14-50 is the most popular today, I see that going away (replaced by hard-wired units or units connected with 6-50 or other receptacle types).
Here is the thing about 120/240v split phase residential service in the USA. If you want 240v, you connect from "hot to hot" and you don't need a neutral line. If you connect a 120v load you go from neutral to hot. If you connect another equal size 120v load you would do it from the other hot to the same neutral. The load on that neutral wire would then be zero. So there is no way to get additional capacity out of having that third wire, if there is load on it, that means one of the hot wires is not being used to its fullest potential. It really is a waste.
So if you just run two conductors (plus a ground of course) to a location for EV charging you would just run both as "hots" and use 240v (which ALL EV's support). If for some reason you REALLY wanted a 120v charging solution, you could use one of the conductors as a neutral and the other as a hot.
Anyway, moral of the story: My prediction is that running three conductors to EV charging stations is going to stop happening... As others pointed out, 14-50 was only popular because Tesla included adapters with the cars by default and it is used by RV's so there were a lot out there in the wild and the receptacles were readily available.
If it were my house, I would ask electrician to install a sub-panel in the garage with 100 Amp/240 Volt feed.
That would support a lot of scenarios:
In fact, that was my reasoning when I had an electrician set up charging for our first Tesla two years ago. No regrets so far.
When my friend stopped by in his S85D on the way back to New Hampshire, he recharged at 80 Amps while we talked and then had family dinner. Allowed him to skip a Supercharger stop on the way home.
That would support a lot of scenarios:
- Rivian or Tesla pickup with high-capacity battery and very likely high-Amp recharge. A contractor pulling a trailer or powering tools at a reasonably distant site, for example.
- Multiple EVs. Children eventually get drivers license.
- Power tools in the garage.
In fact, that was my reasoning when I had an electrician set up charging for our first Tesla two years ago. No regrets so far.
When my friend stopped by in his S85D on the way back to New Hampshire, he recharged at 80 Amps while we talked and then had family dinner. Allowed him to skip a Supercharger stop on the way home.
Let's maybe look a little deeper into that crystal ball: Will there be an entirely new Wall Charger on the market altogether? Also, when I bought my 3 (a couple of months ago) I made a mental note of chargers and their usage in my area. Plenty -- but with local forums and people complaining about "Super Charger Overcrowding". Pulled into a club where I hang out to write, and valet asked if he could charge my car! Yup, two new destination chargers. So, sticking with my 14-50 at home, knowing in my area at least, outside charging no issue. Plus... like to see what is actually in the future for home charging. BTW, took me an hour and $80 in parts to put in my 14-50.
Black306
Active Member
I’m not disagreeing with you on the future of EVs and more efficient wiring related to EV charging. For my recommended 100A circuit, sure, it can be a non-neutral line.
My suggestion on a 14-50 was based on any possibility to use a 240 outlet, not just EVs. Adding 1 additional conductor while building a house is much easier than adding or replacing wiring once it’s built. Price will also be negligible.
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