Don't take your hands off the wheel

[Mary Starfnbu]

smatthew - I applaud your confidence is driving through the EB Caldecott on AP. The lane markings are so faint in places I turn it off going in and on again coming out, not to mention the idiots playing dodge-em cars in the tunnel with you. I did go through the Webster tube without a problem a few weeks ago, though. I also wonder how the AP keeps track of the left lane on 580 where the yellow line comes and goes. It doesn't seem to have a problem, though, but I keep a pretty good grip on the wheel through there anyway. I keep thinking about the Fellow that was killed in the X when he ran into the abutment where the lane marking had been burned away in an earlier accident. Also there was the young tech fellow that went into a pond and drowned near my house where the lane markings were gone, although the investigation said AP was off.

 

[Electroman]

if the lines are weak or if there is no shoulder - don't use AP.

 

[Fernand]

IMHO it goes in phases.

Phase 1 doubt and suspicion
Phase 2 timid exploration
Phase 3 hey, this actually works
Phase 4 I'm all in. Look, Ma, no hands!
Phase 5 doubt and suspicion, the sequel
Phase 6 realization: it's MY tool, not a contest
Phase 7 practical use, very satisfied.

And I know, at this point, that in a majority of tricky
merges and lane changes, the car's better than me.

But like my flight instructor said: There are old pilots
and bold pilots. But there are no old and bold pilots.

 

[N5329K]

IMHO it goes in phases.

Phase 1 doubt and suspicion
Phase 2 timid exploration
Phase 3 hey, this actually works
Phase 4 I'm all in. Look, Ma, no hands!
Phase 5 doubt and suspicion, the sequel
Phase 6 realization: it's MY tool, not a contest
Phase 7 practical use, very satisfied.

And I know, at this point, that in maybe a majority
of tricky merges and lane changes, the car's better
than me.

But like my flight instructor said: There are old pilots
and bold pilots. But there are no old and bold pilots.

My primary flight instructor had another saying: "Just when you think you've got this licked, things are fixin' to swarm you." Which would trigger your Phase 5 doubt and suspicion sequel.
For me, using AP would be a hands-on, eyes-out evolution, waiting, watching for it to do something stupid at the least opportune moment. Which (for me) would be as tiring as just driving the damned thing.
I know others have had good experience with it, though.
Robin
Robin

 

[Fernand]

My primary flight instructor had another saying: "Just when you think you've got this licked, things are fixin' to swarm you." Which would trigger your Phase 5 doubt and suspicion sequel.
For me, using AP would be a hands-on, eyes-out evolution, waiting, watching for it to do something stupid at the least opportune moment. Which (for me) would be as tiring as just driving the damned thing.
I know others have had good experience with it, though.
Robin
Robin

I'm at phase 7, FWIW. I use AS on some city streets too, but
how much of the itinerary it's on varies a lot. Why 0% vs. 100%?
The balance between more vs. less tiring does get worked out,
and it's different for different people, or just different occasions,
and even by mood. It does take a good while to work out. And
each version takes some time to get on familiar terms with.
It's as if your nervous system melds with the software. There
are two things I keep an eye out for, namely possible slowing for
ghosts, it hasn't happened with 2019.12.1.2 yet, and getting
confused in the right lane with weak lines, that could always
occur, but in this too it's been darned good of late.

Once I realized hey, it's my tool, got nothing to prove, then it
really started cutting down on stress and fatigue a lot.

 

[GolanB]

Hi
I’m getting my 3 in a week and live in NY
How’s your experience been so far?
Have you had other words of advice w autopilot around here?
Thanks

Experience with the Model 3 has been nothing short of remarkable. The car is a dream in nearly every way - I bought it because I enjoy DRIVING, and for me, the FSD purchase is something I plan on making use of as it becomes availble in the future. AutoPilot is something you should be cautious of right now - esp. so in the city, like NYC. Outside the city, on freeways, interchanges, and quiet roads it is more reasonable to engage, and I will often have it engaged for periods of 15 or 20 minutes without having to intervene. Try that in the city, and you might get 10 - 15 seconds

 

[Glamisduner]

I have been using NoA daily with no shoulder. In fact NoA always picks the lane with no shoulder, even if it does not need to pass anyone.

 

[Fernand]

I have been using NoA daily with no shoulder. In fact NoA always picks the lane with no shoulder, even if it does not need to pass anyone.

Are you on version 2019.12.1.2 ?
I've had no trouble with the right lane/shoulder with this one,
in fact it's been amazing all around.

 

[Glamisduner]

Are you on version 2019.12.1.2 ?
I've had no trouble with the right lane/shoulder with this one,
in fact it's been amazing all around.

Yes but i haven't driven on it yet. On vacation updated the car remotely.

 

[mswlogo]

IMHO it goes in phases.

Phase 1 doubt and suspicion
Phase 2 timid exploration
Phase 3 hey, this actually works
Phase 4 I'm all in. Look, Ma, no hands!
Phase 5 doubt and suspicion, the sequel
Phase 6 realization: it's MY tool, not a contest
Phase 7 practical use, very satisfied.

And I know, at this point, that in a majority of tricky
merges and lane changes, the car's better than me.

But like my flight instructor said: There are old pilots
and bold pilots. But there are no old and bold pilots.

Phase 8 Overconfidence lulls driver and then crunch.

 

[SammichLover]

Phase 8 Overconfidence lulls driver and then crunch.

Funny thing about that, https://hcai.mit.edu/tesla-autopilot-human-side.pdf .

 

[mswlogo]

Funny thing about that, https://hcai.mit.edu/tesla-autopilot-human-side.pdf .

That’s what the phantom braking is for !!! It’s testing our vigilance

 

[GolanB]

Knowing me, I'll try to steer to correct an AP accident avoidance event, and make it worse. In many of the videos I've seen, the wheel suddenly steers left or right, and I have a feeling I'd end up gripping the wheel tighter and losing the advantage.

 

[turnem]

Last Thursday, I was headed home from San Francisco on 24 Eastbound. Went thought the Caldecott tunnels. Was in the right most lane of the right tunnel. A couple of hundred feet before the end of the tunnel, AutoPilot suddenly swerved right and hit the curb. I had my hand on the wheel and reacted quickly. Quick enough that the only damage was a curbed rim and a messed up section of my aero hubcap.

This was on 2019.12.1.1. I forgot to hit the steering wheel button and say "Bug Report WTFU HAPPENED" The next morning I received 2019.12.1.2 and AutoPilot handled the same tunnel perfectly on Saturday.

I love my car, but I try to keep at least one hand on the wheel 99% of the time.

Yep! As bullish as I am on Tesla and Auto Pilot I do literally keep my hands on the wheel at all times while engaged. it's just not worth the risk. This is a great example - thanks for sharing.

 

[ecarfan]

Moderator note: two posts (and the responses to them) were moved to snippiness.

Civility on TMC is a requirement, not an option. Thank you.

 

[turnem]

IMHO it goes in phases.

Phase 1 doubt and suspicion
Phase 2 timid exploration
Phase 3 hey, this actually works
Phase 4 I'm all in. Look, Ma, no hands!
Phase 5 doubt and suspicion, the sequel
Phase 6 realization: it's MY tool, not a contest
Phase 7 practical use, very satisfied.

And I know, at this point, that in a majority of tricky
merges and lane changes, the car's better than me.

But like my flight instructor said: There are old pilots
and bold pilots. But there are no old and bold pilots.

This!!

 

[Fernand]

Funny thing about that, https://hcai.mit.edu/tesla-autopilot-human-side.pdf .

Musk had an interesting interview with Lex Fridman. I think Fridman is too invested in his vigilance research and General AI extrapolation. In practice people DO pay attention in AP. Musk is probably right in saying that a Tesla is a smart toaster, not an AI, and that at some point humans contribute more negative than positive involvement.

 

[xanadufl]

Last Thursday, I was headed home from San Francisco on 24 Eastbound. Went thought the Caldecott tunnels. Was in the right most lane of the right tunnel. A couple of hundred feet before the end of the tunnel, AutoPilot suddenly swerved right and hit the curb. I had my hand on the wheel and reacted quickly. Quick enough that the only damage was a curbed rim and a messed up section of my aero hubcap.

This was on 2019.12.1.1. I forgot to hit the steering wheel button and say "Bug Report WTFU HAPPENED" The next morning I received 2019.12.1.2 and AutoPilot handled the same tunnel perfectly on Saturday.

I love my car, but I try to keep at least one hand on the wheel 99% of the time.

Same thing happens to me on the same software.

 

[spindrome]

Thanks for the heads up! I went through the tunnel yesterday on our way to Emeryville. I'm still getting used to using AP and I'm glad I disabled it before going into the tunnel. Wherever there are weird merge lanes on the freeway or anything else that may affect the cameras, I always go fully manual just to be on the safe side.

 

[SpiceWare]

I'm always astonished at the people who complain about the steering wheel nag - properly used, there's no nag.

My hands are alway on the steering wheel and I get nagged all the time. The only way that seems to consistently eliminate the nag is to drive with a single hand on the wheel, which is not what I would consider proper usage.