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Drivers with EXPERIENCE with Studded Tires

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by FrederikBoivin, Sep 2, 2015.

  1. FrederikBoivin

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Montreal, Qc, Canada
    Good Morning,

    don't shoot me, I am new here!

    I know the tires topic have been covered a lot. I have searched and searched but all I can find is opinions on studded tires, no real experience.

    I live in the Eastern Townships of Quebec, with icy roads, snowy roads, hilly roads. I drive 3-4 times a week to Montreal, the commute being around 170 km (110 mi) one way. The road is, you would guess, icy, snowy during the wintertime.

    We use to have a Merc ML 350, and never had problems. We also have a VW Passat TDI, to which we installed Nokian Haka 8 with studddddddds! The car war performing better than the ML. I loooooove these tires.

    Now, pretty soon, it will be my first winter with my S85. I love the car. Never owned anything like it. But I am worried about winter driving. In the summertime, I get go both ways Sherbrooke-Montreal-Sherbrooke on one charge. Now, I know I will not be able to do that un the winter time, with humidity and minus 30 degrees celsius temps. What I want to know is:

    anybody out there with EXPERIENCE with studded tires in extreme winter condition? How is the traction? How is the car's behaviour? How much range do you loose? Is the noise killing you, since the car is so heavy? Any other thoughts?

    I would really love to equip my S with studded tires - gives me a feeling of security with our crazy roads here... But i am also open to fresh suggestions BASED ON EXPERIENCE... even better if you live in Quebec!

    Cheers - Merci for your comments and inputs!!! I already drove 20,000 miles in 5 months... now I want to get ready for winter - even if it is plus 30 here today!!!

    Frederik
     
  2. jdbob

    jdbob Member

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  3. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    #3 dsm363, Sep 2, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2015
    Welcome to TMC and congrats on the car!

    Studded tires or Non-studded tires / Nokian Tires

    I know this isn't really the answer to your question but jdbob gave great info above so wanted to point out maybe non-studded tires might also work. The non-studded Nokian Rs might be an excellent alternative and aren't as hard on the roads. From what I understand unless you are on pure ice a lot you might actually lose some traction if there is just cold pavement or snow.
     
  4. FrederikBoivin

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    Thanks guys - greatly appreciated. I'll have a look at the vids and the other link.
     
  5. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    It depends a lot on the temperature of the ice. In general, studs are to be avoided. The only time they actually help is when there is a film of water over the ice, and the better studless tires do a very good job of wiping away the water. In every other situation, studs give you less traction than studless.
     
  6. Alysashley79

    Alysashley79 Member

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    I run Nokian haaka 8's 19" on my P85. This will be the third winter and love them. They're great you don't sacrifice performance for studs on the possible dry day and they work great in ice and snow.
     
  7. Cottonwood

    Cottonwood Roadster#433, Model S#S37

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    I have driven the Model S with both Nokian Hakka 7 studded and with Nokian Hakka R2 non-studded tires. I would recommend the Hakka R2's; the studs on the Hakka 7's don't add much performance and their noise in an EV is amazingly annoying!

    Below is a repeat of my reply on another thread.

    My experience (and verified by some limited, personal testing) is that the Hakka 7's (now Hakka 8's) only beat the Hakka R2's on wet, soft, very-slippery ice. Even on the wet ice conditions, the 7's are only a little better than the R2's; the R2's "Cryo Crystals" in the rubber act as micro, silent studs. In all other snow/ice conditions, I have found the two tires to be about equal. On cold, dry pavement, the R2's win; steel on pavement is slippery. The worst part of the 7's is their noise on dry pavement compared to the quiet electric car. At neighborhood/city speeds, I called them my Rice Crispy tires, snap, crackle, pop...

    I disliked the 7's so much, that I sold them for a song with 50% tread left, and replaced them with new R2's.

    My most humorous episode with the 7's was when I got the P85 Sig back from an annual inspection, and the tech listed the tires as customer supplied, 3rd party tires. I pointed out that they were Tesla originals in 2012! The local service manager acknowledged that I was correct, but never sent me a new, corrected report.

    Nokian Tires Web Page: Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 - A non-studded tire that offers supreme driving comfort and safety

    Here are some links to my Tesla's on Nokian Hakka's in winter conditions:

     
  8. Bangor Bob

    Bangor Bob Member

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    Can't comment specifically on Model S performance, but of my last 4 sets of winter tires, the last three had studs. Now that's in interior & western Maine, but I've done plenty of winter driving around the eastern townships of Quebec as well, along with the north shore up past Quebec City to Ste. Anne and Le Massif, and even Mt. Edouard and Valinouet up the Saguenay. I like being able to stop, and with the older studless Hakkapelitta RSi tires, there were several times when touching the brakes just resulted in the ABS saying "not now." With studs you always have at least a little grip, even if it's easy to overpower them. Ultimate performance is lower, yes. But the "middle ground" of the performance envelope is bigger, IMO.

    Yes, they're loud, especially on dry pavement. I turn up the radio.

    If you really hate it, you can always have them yank the studs out. You can't put them back in, however...
     
  9. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Tires that are designed for studs won't work as well without the studs as studless tires. Studded tires: Eat the pavement (not an issue if your roads are always covered in packed snow during the winter months, but that's not most places). Increase the instances of lung cancer because of the of the pavement particles thrown into the air. Note that not all studless (and studded for that matter) tires are created equal. Some are far better than others.
     
  10. RiverBrick

    RiverBrick Active Member

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    Someone in our Tesla Club on the Montreal North shore replaced the Tesla-provided Pirellis with Hakka 8 studded for their 2nd Winter in the car.

    Where they live they're normally driving on packed snow (even after the latest storm has been plowed). They report much shorter stopping distances with the Hakka R8s. (Of course this is in comparison to the Sottzeros, not to another severe Winter tire.)

    On the other hand, they lost a lot of range on the highway.

    I drove my car on the iCar circuit in Mirabel in February and was also a passenger in a P85D on the same course. Of course, I couldn't overcome the D's advantage in the slalom, but I could come to a full stop quicker. Not sure how much of that was due to the tires (R2 vs Sottzero) and how much due to less weight.
     
  11. llavalle

    llavalle Member

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    Hey Fred,

    I'm from Québec too (around 30km north of Montreal).

    I don't have any experience with studded on my Tesla but I've driven a car with studded Nokian Hakka (version 5 or 6) and it was not that impressive. Only really useful if the ice is melting or covered with a thin layer of water. I've had my Model S since March so I only had to endure the end of winter but I did go to my cottage house in the upper Laurentians (midpoint between Mont-Tremblant and Mont-Laurier) in my first week of ownership. I had the Pirellis. They are average - very similar to my previous Michelin Pilot Alpins - perfect for cold pavement but bad in snow.

    I considered a set of Hakka 8 (non studded) but the range reduction was a bit scary. Then I discovered the Hakka R2!

    There was a thread in here last winter where 2 owners compared braking, acceleration and climbing a hill with 2 similar model S (RWD). One with studded Hakka8 and one with R2s (non studded). The R2 was as good (if not better) in most cases. And effeciency was VERY good.

    I plan to install a set on my car before next season.
     
  12. StaceyS

    StaceyS Member

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    If I were king dictator of the planet, I would ban studded tires. Around here (Oregon), a lot of uninformed people just default to studded tires for winter, and we really, really don't need them! I-5 through the Willamette Valley is 3 lanes of rutted hyrdoplaning because of all the studded tires (more rain than snow).

    Studless tires have excellent performance, and exceed the performance of studded tires in every situation except wet ice, as has been mentioned on this thread. They are quiet, perform better, less rotational mass, less range impact and they don't destroy the roads. To me, studded tires on a Tesla seems to be a contradiction, but I realize that not every Tesla owner bought their car for the environmental reasons like I did.

    Another important thing to realize: this is winter driving. Slow down, be careful, drive defensively, and if weather conditions demand, respect the reality of the situation and don't drive.

    (Sorry, I'm biased, clearly. This is all my opinion...)
     
  13. FrederikBoivin

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    Montreal, Qc, Canada
    Merci and thanks to all of you.
    Loads of informations... I will dig into that and surely keep you posted with 1) my choice and 2) my satisfaction, once installed!
     

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