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Driving my Model S in extreme winter conditions

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Verified immediately below by Kendall's response to Doug. {snip}

I think you missed the point here, Brian H. Unless you're claiming special insight into Tesla, speculation should be obvious that it is speculation only and shouldn't be offered as fact. Some new forum members may take things you state as fact, not remember the source, and then feel Tesla misled them.

Surely not your intent.
 
@Doug_G and others with defogging issues in cold northern humid regions:
From Tesla: "We have designed a new vent with much improved defogging flow for very cold regions. It is in testing now and should be available to customers in three to four weeks. It will be retrofitted free upon request."
Kimbal


I'm usually a cynical old fart. Truly. Other than military combat I can't imagine any experiences in my life that have been more stressful and disgusting than dealing with car dealers/manufacturers.
This level of customer service astounds me. Especially given the delicacy of their position at this early stage. I can't wait to buy a vehicle from this company! I hope I live long enough to experience this many more times.
 
I agree...I don't know of ANY car company out there that seems so committed to not just trying to design the best car in the world, but to continually tweaking it in search if perfection. It really is astounding.

This level of customer service astounds me. Especially given the delicacy of their position at this early stage. I can't wait to buy a vehicle from this company! I hope I live long enough to experience this many more times.
 
I should have subscribed to this thread earlier. This is amazing news. Thanks, Kimbal, for all of your insight. We truly have things to look forward to and are greatly encouraged by the attention Tesla is paying to their customers.

Here's hoping the change will be implemented by the time I take delivery in late March! :)
 
Totally agree!

I had assumed that that there would be adequate pack insulation for cold weather driving as Tesla has said the Model S is designed to operate in Northern climates. Experiences indicate it would operate much more efficiently with better insulation. Pack cooling would require greater use of the rads and fans during warmer weather, but this would be a comparatively low energy draw.

More insulation would be a real benefit for Canadian and any Northern latitude owners. Heated rear seats and a heated steering wheel would also be welcome!
 
Cross-post of information I obtained from Joost de Vries about the fix for the fogging issue (huge kudos to Kimbal for putting me in touch with the right people!):

I just had very useful series of e-mail exchanges with Kimbal Musk, George B, and Joost de Vries concerning the new ventilation ducts. The gist of the information is below.

I must say that I have been thoroughly impressed by the level of interaction these three busy individuals have shown in addressing my concerns, taking the time to reply promptly and personally to a single customer. I made sure to note this in my replies to them.

Quoted from Joost de Vries:

"Regarding the windshield defroster functionality (or lack thereof), we got the 1st prototype parts last week and we have been testing them in a –30c cold weather chamber to make sure they will do the job. The good news is they do and we should have parts available late next week. I have requested my Service Managers to start reaching out to existing customers in the affected areas to schedule a service appointment to do the change. For new vehicle builds into Canada it will be a Service fix before delivery as the final production tooling will kick off only later this year. The retrofit on the defrosting is pretty straightforward. We loosen the A pillar trims left and right, lift out the dashboard top, remove the mesh screen. Insert the new directional air flow pieces, install the new mesh screen and reassembly the dashboard top and A pillar trim. It'll be less than an hour work. I am confident our customers will regard this issue as resolved once they experience the new venting system."
 
Cross-post of information I obtained from Joost de Vries about the fix for the fogging issue (huge kudos to Kimbal for putting me in touch with the right people!):

I just had very useful series of e-mail exchanges with Kimbal Musk, George B, and Joost de Vries concerning the new ventilation ducts. The gist of the information is below.

I must say that I have been thoroughly impressed by the level of interaction these three busy individuals have shown in addressing my concerns, taking the time to reply promptly and personally to a single customer. I made sure to note this in my replies to them.

Quoted from Joost de Vries:

"Regarding the windshield defroster functionality (or lack thereof), we got the 1st prototype parts last week and we have been testing them in a –30c cold weather chamber to make sure they will do the job. The good news is they do and we should have parts available late next week. I have requested my Service Managers to start reaching out to existing customers in the affected areas to schedule a service appointment to do the change. For new vehicle builds into Canada it will be a Service fix before delivery as the final production tooling will kick off only later this year. The retrofit on the defrosting is pretty straightforward. We loosen the A pillar trims left and right, lift out the dashboard top, remove the mesh screen. Insert the new directional air flow pieces, install the new mesh screen and reassembly the dashboard top and A pillar trim. It'll be less than an hour work. I am confident our customers will regard this issue as resolved once they experience the new venting system."

really interesting. I wonder though, at some point is this "new venting system" going to be standard on all cars? I would imagine so, but it's hard to tell from the comments about retrofit in the "affected areas"
 
really interesting. I wonder though, at some point is this "new venting system" going to be standard on all cars? I would imagine so, but it's hard to tell from the comments about retrofit in the "affected areas"

From history with the Roadster, they'll prioritize regions where it's a big problem and do those first. For areas where it could have some impact they might wait until other service is being done. For cars located in places where they'll never see the problem, the may not do it at all unless the customer actually experiences an issue with it. (This is what they did with the cooling fan upgrade in the Roadster.)
 
In my old Think City 2008 model, this is solved beautifully by heated front glass, so one small product improvement (optional, as only "required" in cold places) would be the opportunity to order the S with heated front glass...... I do believe it will also be energy efficient, as a few minutes with this use much less power from the batteries compared to high use of heater and fan.

This also take care of ice and snow when parked outside on a cold
winters day
 
Not impressed at all - taking direct action:
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S-defroster.jpg
 
I just posted on the other Winter Driving thread about Elon's reply to this when I asked him about it: Winter Driving Experiences - Page 60

Well, Elon might claim that the battery has good insulation and that power is only consumed initially to heat it, but I just read JakePs post about range in -7C (19F), and he barely got 200 miles out of the pack (182 done, 6 miles left and range charge was not completely finished). And those 200 miles were done by someone trying to achieve good range. He seems to be aware of what needs to be done to keep consumption down, and that tells me that 200 miles in -7 is definitively not a wost case scenario.

In other words, at -7C range seems to drop at least 15-20%. What then at -15 or -20? Is dense air and rolling resistance a huge factor, or could it be that the battery is simply not insulated well enough?
 
Well, Elon might claim that the battery has good insulation and that power is only consumed initially to heat it, but I just read JakePs post about range in -7C (19F), and he barely got 200 miles out of the pack (182 done, 6 miles left and range charge was not completely finished). And those 200 miles were done by someone trying to achieve good range. He seems to be aware of what needs to be done to keep consumption down, and that tells me that 200 miles in -7 is definitively not a wost case scenario.

In other words, at -7C range seems to drop at least 15-20%. What then at -15 or -20? Is dense air and rolling resistance a huge factor, or could it be that the battery is simply not insulated well enough?

Oyvind,

I think you're right. The battery may be thermally insulated from the base of the "pan", but I think an additional thermal blanket would help to keep the pack warm at speed on the highway when the wind-chill could really affect the temperature of the pack.

I have a feeling someone will develop something that can be bolted onto the bottom of the pan, and as someone mentioned could be swapped on and off with winter tires.

- - - Updated - - -

Not impressed at all - taking direct action:
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View attachment 14900

Does that actually work?