ELECTREK: Tesla starts limiting charge to 80% at busy Superchargers to reduce wait times

[jeffro01]

Yep, I pay Verizon for “unlimited data” too. Except
They throttle me after ~20 gigs because it’s the right thing to do to keep the network a useful resource for everyone.

You seem to be confusing “unlimited” with “on exclusively your terms”. They’re not the same.

Comparing cell phone data use to the ability for one to travel with their EV and make it from one spot to another is grossly inappropriate and doesn't have any remote association...

It's pretty clear most of you here refuse to see the obvious damage this stupid policy is going to cause. Tesla is in deep, deep, deep trouble and if I were still invested (I've dumped all of my shares awhile ago for full disclosure), I'd get out NOW...

Truth be told, I'd be surprised if this company exists in it's current form by the end of 2019... I'm not predicting bankruptcy or anything, I expect Tesla to be bought sooner rather than later. They simply can't keep from shooting themselves in their own feet...

Jeff

 

[jeffro01]

I agree with this and don't know why it was instituted this way.. if the site is not congested there is no reason for a limitation. it does seem a it heavy-handed. I wonder what the rationale was.

Agreed. This is Tesla though, and they've demonstrated many times over that no one actually thinks these decisions through, they just throw them out there and see what happens...

I get the idea of pushing out people who are just there to "top off" for no real reason while making others wait who are actually trying to get some place, I actually support that thought process. However, the manner of execution is just awful...

Jeff

 

[d21mike]

Assuming they allow me to move the charge limit bar and continue charging it of course will not be a problem for anyone. However, maybe they are allowing that for now to see how many people actually change it. If most do not then maybe they will take it away.

For me, I knew before buying I would charge daily at my house and only use the SuperChargers when on a trip. Which is seldom. They even said you should charge to 80% or 90% daily except when you are on a trip and then you can set the charge limit to higher. Like 100%. And with this in mind I decided to get the 75D (Model S) and not speed and extra $20k to get the 100D. Actually if I felt I required the 100D I most likely would not have bought a Tesla because the 75D was pretty much my limit at the time.

So, my car is charged to 80% daily and I only charge to 100% for trips. I generally charge to 100% before I leave the house. Which saves Supercharger usage. If I use the Supercharger more then once during my trip I only charge to 100% when I feel the need to do so because I do not want to wait the time it takes to charge between 80% and 100%. But, I normally charge to 100% once before heading home. As I get closer to home where I would need to charge again if I only charge to 80% the Superchargers are normally pretty busy so it is much better for me to charge to about 100% before heading home at a SuperCharger that is less crowded. Of course if I have spent the $20K for the 100D I would not be having this problem.

I have pretty much convinced my wife to get a Model 3 later this year when her Mercedes comes off Lease. Her main concern was the range of the battery. Since this car would only be used around town with a very seldom trip I felt the Short Range Batter would be fine (220 miles). Now I am not su sure. 220 x .8 is only 176 and that is assuming she will get that much range. My 75D with 259 rated range has never ever charged to 259 when charging to 100%. My daily is about 197 miles at 80%. My wife would not be at all happy with this news of restricting her to 176 miles range. And unless you drive the speed limit you will not even get the rated range. Who does that in California. So, if this change is goes into affect it will force me to get the Long Range Battery to reduce her stress. Again, she might only use the car once a year that requires a 100% charge at a Supercharger. However, the cost difference is less now on a Model 3 for a bigger battery. Maybe another reason for this action by Tesla?????

The real problem that others here seem to ignore (maybe because they are the problem) is the use of Superchargers for everyday use. Maybe they live in an apartment and have no choice and were told hey you can just use a Supercharger on the weekends like you gas up your car or they just feel why not get FREE Supercharging since that is part of the reason for getting the car at the time.

I have said this before that this policy should not be applied to people that are 50 or 100 miles from home since they are obviously on a trip and may need to charge to 100%. People on a trip understand the amount of time to charge > 80% and would only do that if they if felt they needed it for whatever reason. If you feel that people do not understand how charging works then maybe that should be a notice. Hey, you have reach 80% and that last 20% if going to take twice as long and you may not need it. Especially if the chargers are full and others are waiting. I think most people would volunteer to do the right thing. Which is if you do not need it free up the charger for others that are waiting.

 

[bro1999]

So since the new 80% limit is so easy to override (change charge limit in app or in car), how much actual "congestion relief" will take place? I'm thinking it won't be anywhere near the quoted "34% throughput increase" in the statement.

 

[Galve2000]

So since the new 80% limit is so easy to override (change charge limit in app or in car), how much actual "congestion relief" will take place? I'm thinking it won't be anywhere near the quoted "34% throughput increase" in the statement.

This loophole will likely be done away with at some point... though I do agree that those that are really on road trips -- say 100 miles from their home -- would be exempt from this restriction...

then again, over the Labor Day weekend, i cannot tell you how many exotic cars I saw in NY with Florida plates --which is (conservatively) 1000 miles away.. and there is always someone, somewhere willing to game the system..

perhaps that's why they made the busy CA SCer locations 80% at all times... all those CA residents with their cars registered in NV... at some point you have to say.. sorry.. no exceptions..

 

[Galve2000]

You clearly refuse to see the damage this insanely stupid policy is going to cause to the brand. Tesla is basically telling people that their battery capacity has been reduced by 20%. For a product that already has inherent issues with range anxiety, why would you do this?

I really wish you had made this argument originally.. you do have a point here.

HOWEVER

I still maintain that some restrictions must be placed in order to maintain the integrity and usefulness of an already overworked network. it is, unfortunately, a fine line that Tesla needs to walk here.. not scaring away customers who are banking on 300 miles of range, and making sure that everyone has access to as much range as possible.

people will obviously grumble.. it is an inconvenience.. that is true. some -- like you -- won't stand for it. others -- like myself -- will take it in stride..

edited for snakiness.. I like eating beef on occasion. I don't need beef on this forum.

 

[jeffro01]

Or Tesla could actually fulfill the promises it's already made about expanding the network? The problem isn't owners, it's the lack of supercharging pedestals... That's on Tesla. Just like the severe lack of service centers, also totally on Tesla.

We used to have mobile service here in the Bay Area but it apparently disappeared for some reason which is really stupid as they did a great job... Tesla's management decisions are confusing at best...

So many problems with this company... It all starts with Elon...

Jeff

 

[Galve2000]

Somewhere on this forum there is a post about how in the early days of Tesla when EV drivers at the Google's Silicon Valley campus(es) were mostly Leafs and Volts it was discovered that they needed one level 2 EVSE for every two cars or otherwise there was drama and people got cranky.

now..

Superchargers can charge MUCH MUCH faster than level 2.. but it is still nowhere near as gas... which is IMO the deep-seated expectation that people have when it comes to SuperCharging.

even if we are generous and say that 1 SC stall per 10 teslas (i'm making my numbers up here) i believe there will always be more Teslas than available stalls and it is unreasonable to expect Tesla to provide enough stalls to satisfy everyone at all times -- and I haven't sat down to run the numbers.. but i promise you Tesla has.

you may disagree and believe that it is completely reasonable that Tesla provides one stall for 2 cars or whatever the optimal number is.. but I think you are trying to hold Tesla to an impossible standard.

at some point you have use mechanisms to limit people's behavior.

in a gas car you can replenish 100 miles of range in seconds. The charging technology for EVs is not there yet. someday it will be. but not just now. it sounds like this is your expectation and you are mad at Tesla for not providing enough charging infrastructure. even as they make sites that are 40 stalls deep... it's still not enough...

when will capacity be enough? I hate to use the word never.. but...

 

[d21mike]

Free Supercharging for Life was a mistake and they probably knew it from the beginning. Maybe they felt that was the only way to get the ball rolling? They did change course with the Model 3 but they do need to keep adding more superchargers that can be self sustaining (i.e. pay for themselves). Gas stations are not free and they are everywhere. Charging Stations like wise will need to be everywhere starting with the home. People will figure out how to charge from home once they start to save money by doing so.

 

[trm2]

Pricing on the Superchargers can be the controlling mechanism if they want. Allow people to charge to whatever level they want, but from 80% to 90% it costs 1.5x and from 90% to 100% it is 2x. That would certainly alter perceptions of how much to charge.

 

[jeffro01]

Pricing on the Superchargers can be the controlling mechanism if they want. Allow people to charge to whatever level they want, but from 80% to 90% it costs 1.5x and from 90% to 100% it is 2x. That would certainly alter perceptions of how much to charge.

Can't apply that retroactively. So many mine fields on that model as well and Tesla has a hard enough time with basic details and lack of customer service... That and you'd have to have a mechanism that exempts actual travelers who need that actual full charge, you don't see gas stations charging extra to fully fill your tank...

The answer is simple, build a lot more stations and phase out the unlimited people like myself over time. If there were as many SCs as there are gas stations this would be a moot point entirely... Since we're not going to get anywhere remotely near that for a very long time, building as many as can be built as fast as they can be built is really the only option. Tesla is starved for cash right now, starved for a lot of things actually, and so I don't have much faith in the kind of expansion needed...

Funny how one of the things that might kill Tesla is their own popularity and not being able to scale enough to handle that... Had a coworker of mine lose their mind because they had to wait on a road trip to charge and it pissed their wife off enough that she forced him to get rid of the Tesla as soon as they got home... Extreme? Absolutely but I have a sneaking suspicion it's not as extreme as it sounds when you first hear it...

Jeff

 

[Rocky_H]

You seem to be contradicting yourself here, so I don't get it:

and phase out the unlimited people like myself over time.

What do you mean by "phase out"? They can't take that away, because:

Can't apply that retroactively.

Exactly. If people have acquired permanent free Supercharging, that is a contracted agreement they can't remove.

However, if they would just stop giving that out, it will become a smaller % of the total and less of an issue. Perhaps that is what you meant.

you'd have to have a mechanism that exempts actual travelers who need that actual full charge,

Probably not. That part is self-solving. I notice this is said by another Bay Area resident who doesn't seem to get how the rest of the country is different. They are doing this charge limiting in very large, very densely populated areas where they need to help the throughput. Well, the densely populated areas are dense in both ways. They do have a lot of people trying to use them, and they also do have more quantity of other Supercharger locations within shorter distances. So people who are traveling still generally will not need to go over 80%, because it is not a type of place that will require pushing the limits to get 200+ miles until the next available Supercharger location.

The regions with much farther Supercharger spacing that might need over 80%, also just don't have many people or cars trying to use them. It's a little exciting to see another car or two there at the same time you are.

 

[d21mike]

Can't apply that retroactively. So many mine fields on that model as well and Tesla has a hard enough time with basic details and lack of customer service... That and you'd have to have a mechanism that exempts actual travelers who need that actual full charge, you don't see gas stations charging extra to fully fill your tank...

The answer is simple, build a lot more stations and phase out the unlimited people like myself over time. If there were as many SCs as there are gas stations this would be a moot point entirely... Since we're not going to get anywhere remotely near that for a very long time, building as many as can be built as fast as they can be built is really the only option. Tesla is starved for cash right now, starved for a lot of things actually, and so I don't have much faith in the kind of expansion needed...

Funny how one of the things that might kill Tesla is their own popularity and not being able to scale enough to handle that... Had a coworker of mine lose their mind because they had to wait on a road trip to charge and it pissed their wife off enough that she forced him to get rid of the Tesla as soon as they got home... Extreme? Absolutely but I have a sneaking suspicion it's not as extreme as it sounds when you first hear it...

Jeff

I agree with @Rocky_H. I will just add that I thought they already increase the price of supercharging or at least changed it? So, charging more for 80-100% should not be a problem in doing so going forward? If you are talking about those that have free unlimited then that would be a problem to start charging at all. However, I will just speak for me personally. For them to limit me to 80% when I believe I need more then that is a major problem. Charging me for going over 80% would not compare to being limited even though I have free unlimited.

 

[JPoldo]

I received the 80% charge limit warning last weekend while returning from a Memorial Day road trip in Dedham, MA. Only two vehicles were charging with 6 empty stalls at 10:30 pm. It was easy to override the limitation.

This 8 lane supercharger is connected to a service center delivering a high volume of cars to New England buyers. On a busy delivery day, a SA told me their delivery goal was 75 /day; hard for me to believe. Every car delivery requires an 80% charge, so clearly service center deliveries are inflating charger usage numbers.

More intelligence is needed: a) don't count new vehicles when calculating high volume supercharger; and b) suppress warning when stalls empty. Of course, I'm asking for too much.

 

[Tony8489]

We noticed this warning and the 80% reset at the Lone Pine supercharger last Friday and this Tuesday. And yes, we needed to override the 80% reset Tuesday to go through Death Valley.

FYI that trip was a squeaker after we decided to visit Ubehebe Crater and the Wonder Gold Mine. We had to drive the 27 miles from Wonder Mine over Daylight Pass to the Beatty supercharger at 20mph!

Lone Pine is an interesting case. It is high use for travel to Mammoth, and to get up Sherwin Grade with a cushion for possible wind, cold, etc., it's best to leave Lone Pine with at least 200 miles rated range. The original 4 chargers are not enough, so 2 temporary 72kW urban chargers have been added. On Friday afternoon we had to wait 9 minutes as the first fee one was a 72kW. After 15 minutes more one of the others opened up so we moved and got 100+kW until the taper began.

If you're going to do anything in Death Valley and not just drive through, you absolutely need a close to full charge in Lone Pine, as our nail biter experience Tuesday illustrates.

I'm fine with this move as long as the user can override. In the urban areas it's rarely necessary to supercharge past 80%. I would be up in arms if there were a hard 80% limit at Lone Pine, but I recognize that's an unusual case.

 

[sorka]

I’m fine with this policy as long as the NEXT destination is another supercharger. If, however, I’m taking a detour on my route where I will really need more than 80% theyd better not limit it when I turn off navigation.

 

[MD500_Pilot]

How is it forcing everyone to 80%? For a select minority of stations, it only defaults to no more than 80%.

But is it really a "select" minority of stations? I have been hearing (and seeing at my own local station) more and more people getting that same message about being at a "High-usage" station. In my case, the station I normally use is never full and go at all different hours of the day and days of the week.

It would be interesting to start a list of the stations that people are hitting to see how many are actually tagged as "high-usage" verses just Tesla wanting to make room for more cars without the expense of more charging stations.

 

[Zoomit]

But is it really a "select" minority of stations?

Yes

 

[Rocky_H]

But is it really a "select" minority of stations? I have been hearing (and seeing at my own local station)

...says yet another southern California resident.

 

[bro1999]

Free Supercharging for Life was a mistake and they probably knew it from the beginning. Maybe they felt that was the only way to get the ball rolling? They did change course with the Model 3 but they do need to keep adding more superchargers that can be self sustaining (i.e. pay for themselves). Gas stations are not free and they are everywhere. Charging Stations like wise will need to be everywhere starting with the home. People will figure out how to charge from home once they start to save money by doing so.

I don't think offering free Supercharging for life* was a bad strategy during the very early days, but it should have been discontinued long before it actually was discontinued. At the time, the Model S was the only car like it out there (200+ mile "luxury" EV), so even if unlimited Supercharging was pulled a year or 2 after initial release (or after X number of vehicles were sold, whatever), the allure of owning the car would have outweighed the loss of free supercharging, and I bet sales numbers would have barely been affected if free supercharging had been canned early on. I mean how many people on here would not have bought their S/X if free supercharging had not been included at the time?