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ELECTREK: Tesla starts limiting charge to 80% at busy Superchargers to reduce wait times

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by dbldwn02, May 25, 2019.

?

Yay or Nay?

  1. Yes, way less wait times!

    58 vote(s)
    73.4%
  2. No, I need >80%!

    21 vote(s)
    26.6%
  1. dbldwn02

    dbldwn02 Member

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  2. gnuarm

    gnuarm Model X 100 with 72 kW chargers

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    I don't have a strong opinion either way and I am not likely to be affected by it... I think. How do we know which chargers have this policy in force? The Gaithersburg chargers are one of the few in the area that can have a wait line at times. I wonder if that one will have the 80% limit?
     
  3. gnuarm

    gnuarm Model X 100 with 72 kW chargers

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    Just to be clear, I don't expect to be affected by this, but I don't know it is the best idea for the company. Charging is a major impediment to buying an EV even if it's only a matter of perception. This does nothing to improve the perception.
     
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  4. malcolm

    malcolm Active Member

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    Er, i think they're trying to improve the experience of supercharging at busy sites rather than the perception.

    Seems to me it's a choice between longer queues at Superchargers vs driving a bit slower to compensate for the 80% limit.

    Tesla-Range-vs-Speed - TESLARATI

    Which is what happens in holiday traffic / peak times anyway.
     
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  5. dbldwn02

    dbldwn02 Member

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    I agree with you there but I think the positives outweigh the negatives. There are a lot of videos/pics out there of people waiting in lines at the busy chargers. That definitely hurts Tesla as those are the memes that end up on Social Media and get the most LOLs from ICErs.

    Also I would hope they put the 80% limit info on the map in the car just like they do with the max charge rate and costs at that station.
     
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  6. gnuarm

    gnuarm Model X 100 with 72 kW chargers

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    Yes, I get that. But the better solution is to improve the charging network. Tesla is getting more capital and they need to plan to spend no small share to continue expansion of the charging network. I guess I feel very strongly that charging is presently Tesla's biggest advantage over other brands of EVs and it is the biggest impediment to getting new ICE drivers to consider an EV. Without significant progress in charging, I think most in the US at least won't even consider buying an EV.

    So we have a dammed if we do, dammed if we don't scenario. Which is worse, continuing to show the same level of charger congestion (not that this limit will fix it) or adding all the news alerts that Tesla is rationing charging? I can't even figure out if any of my watering holes will be affected.
     
    • Like x 1
  7. dbldwn02

    dbldwn02 Member

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    But it's not the same level of charging congestion. They're adding way more cars than the charging network can keep up with. And yes, that's a problem in that Tesla hasn't added enough SCs yet. Summer is upon us and the anger about congested chargers will continue but the 80% cap will be one bad headline forgotten about a month from now. Tesla really needs to expand SCs like they've said they would. There's a few chargers in Colorado that have been on "The Map" for 3 years now. Every year, it's planned opening is "next year."

    Personally I think they slowed down last year so they could show Wall Street they could pull a profit if they wanted to. And that set them behind.
     
    • Like x 3
  8. KArnold

    KArnold Member

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    Tesla knows how full a given site is. Maybe enforce these rules everywhere but only when 90%+ of the chargers are in use?
     
    • Like x 1
  9. ucmndd

    ucmndd Active Member

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    Really? You seem to be expressing a pretty consistent strong opinion in the thread you created.

    Supercharging Rock and Hard Place

    I disagree with the idea that this creates any charging anxiety or negative perception for potential owners. In fact this is one of those obscure things that a tiny fraction of potential owners will even be aware of.

    On the contrary, almost everyone even sort of interested in cars has seen news stories of 40-deep supercharging queues on holiday weekends.

    I don’t see this as an alternative to investing in the network, but a complement. It’s important to maximize efficiency of the investment you’ve already made. It’s increasingly rare that there’s ever a need to supercharge beyond 80% to facilitate travel. There’s an easy solution available for those times that do. Win-win.
     
    • Like x 4
  10. gnuarm

    gnuarm Model X 100 with 72 kW chargers

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    Of course that's why they slowed down... well, actually I don't agree they "slowed" down last year, they just didn't pick up the pace to keep up with the new cars they were selling. I don't know if they slowed down this year or not, but it may well be the case.

    But yes, it is all about profits. They aren't just trying to show "wall street" they can make a profit. They have reached the point where they need to make a profit or they close up the company. They are going out for another couple/three billion. Then that will likely be it. So profits going forward are paramount.

    Think of it like taking an airplane off from the runway. You can give the nose a tweak up and gain some elevation, but if you aren't going fast enough and have enough power in your engines, it won't maintain and you will come back down to earth... hard. So putting all your money into new manufacturing plants may increase your production, but it may not increase your profits if you can't sell every car you make. Tesla has to continue to move forward with production, but also with the charging network. It already has congestion in some key areas. If that spreads too far and wide... well, think of it as the control stick shaking. The nose has to come down no matter what is in front of you.

    If people hear too many reports of congestion at chargers they'll never come into the stores that Tesla is closing to find out from the salespeople that are being laid off they can charge at home.
     
  11. gnuarm

    gnuarm Model X 100 with 72 kW chargers

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    I think you misunderstand. The poll is in the context of your personal use. "No, I need >80%!" While there are times I don't want to be restricted, they give you an out, just program a trip that needs more charging than 80%! So I don't expect to be impacted... I think.


    The real issue is that it's a one time gain. So they get a little better utilization of the chargers, they still need to build more chargers. It's analogous to switching from coal to natural gas for electric generations to reduce carbon emissions. Yeah, you get some reduction but it's a one time step improvement and still doesn't solve the problem.

    The bottom line is this is a direct consequence of Tesla not being in a position to spend the money they need on expanding the charging network. Maybe this won't have as much impact as the videos of long charging lines (40 deep? Really?), but I think it will not do much for the lines and will make an impression on the buying public, just like gas rationing in the 70s.
     
  12. ibGeek

    ibGeek Member

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    Something to note, if you you are using navigation and it sends you to a supercharger, then as long as that charger is NOT at your final destination, you will be able to charge as much as you need to.
     
    • Informative x 1
  13. gnuarm

    gnuarm Model X 100 with 72 kW chargers

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    I was talking about the charging issue months ago and many people responded by calling me "Henny Penny". I guess we still can't see that it is affecting sales, but clearly when they said Tesla would build their way out of the charging congestion that hasn't happened.

    I don't expect to see improvement in this until at least 2020, if then. I expect 2020 to be all about sales in China from the Shanghai factory. That's probably where they are building new chargers right now.
     
  14. ucmndd

    ucmndd Active Member

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    Yes, but you need to build LESS chargers for the same benefit if they’re used more efficiently. For a cash-strapped company, that’s a huge consideration.

    40 was a distortion of the facts as I remembered them, but there are well publicized news stories and videos a couple years back of lines over 20 at some key chokepoints like Barstow and Tejon Ranch in California. More recently at places like Quartzsite, AZ.

    Agree to disagree there I suppose. This is not even sort of analogous to gas rationing.
     
    • Like x 1
  15. gnuarm

    gnuarm Model X 100 with 72 kW chargers

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    The benefit is only on a few locations and only at a few times and let's face it, only some cars. The real benefit is very limited. They said it could save up to 34% improvement which is clearly a best case scenario which won't happen, every car looking for 90% and being knocked down to 80%.


    I recall Quartzsite having a backup of 15 cars which is still huge and creates a massive wait.


    Yes, it is nothing like gas rationing. But the image it creates in the people who don't have EVs will be much like that, especially when combined with the long lines. Someone said this is a news blip that will be gone soon. I think it will get mentioned every time a charging line makes the news. Long lines and restricted charging. News reports are about making a splash. It doesn't have to be overly realistic, just not lies.

    I guess Monday evening will tell.
     
  16. dbldwn02

    dbldwn02 Member

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    Not a news blip. It'll make big news right now because all negative Tesla news is big news especially with a cratering stock. I just don't think anyone is going to care in a month. (Shorts included)

    Truthfully, I think with the increased charging rates I've seen on my car, coupled with 80% max charging, we probably won't see many lines anywhere anymore. That is, unless, they stop building SCs altogether.
     
  17. Zoomit

    Zoomit Active Member

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    Plus you can just move the slider above 80% and charge higher. It's not a firm limit at 80%.
     
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  18. dbldwn02

    dbldwn02 Member

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    Pretty sure moving the slider doesn't override the 80% limit. Only routing through a supercharger will do that.
     
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  19. Zoomit

    Zoomit Active Member

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    I haven't tried it myself, but I'm just relaying what @AAARSINIC said here: High-usage supercharger station
     
  20. swegman

    swegman Active Member

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    I have been driving a P85 for 6 years and my experience is that I need to charge for a minimum of 30% (and many times 50%) beyond the distance from one supercharger to the next supercharger. For example, if the distance from supercharger A to supercharger B is 160 miles, I need to charge to an indicated battery range of 210 miles. If it is windy, cold, a 75 or 80 mph posted speed limit, or any number of other conditions, I may need to charge to 240 miles of indicated battery range to ensure I get to supercharger B. When road tripping, I try to arrive at a supercharger with 20-30 miles of range left (a buffer in case there is a road detour, accident, etc occurs and also because it is not good to run the battery down to below 10% of it’s capacity).
     
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