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Electric Plane @ Paris Air Show.....

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by purplewalt, Jun 22, 2015.

  1. purplewalt

    purplewalt Active Member

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    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/11664405/Electric-airplane-of-the-future-set-for-take-off-at-Paris-Air-Show.html

    At the Paris Air Show:
    Two-seater Airbus E-Fan 2.0 electric prototype to have a range of 100 miles, speed of 136 mph, makes hardly any noise.
    Batteries will be lithium-ion polymer batteries.
    Scheduled to enter service in 2017 or early 2018.

    Maiden cross-Channel flight is scheduled for July 10.

    A larger four-seat E-Fan 4.0 is scheduled to arrive in 2019.

    Maybe another potential market for the Gigafactory's battery output?
    (And yet another vehicle to pull into a Supercharger station...)
     
  2. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    The 4.0 also has a range extender.

    I can't see Airbus buying batteries from an Elon Musk company. More likely SAFT.
     
  3. GregRF

    GregRF Squirrel Power

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    "The E-Fan 4.0 will have a longer range and will be able to recharge batteries during flight and carry navigation capabilities. This would allow a flight time of around three to three and a half hours."

    So solar panels? I'd guess that regeneration wouldn't make too much sense.
     
  4. jbcarioca

    jbcarioca Active Member

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    #4 jbcarioca, Jun 23, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2015
    This might help. The Airbus website for the project:

    Airbus Group - E-Fan electric aircraft

    BTW, in automotive terms the four seater would be called a series hybrid because it derives fan power only from the batteries, while the engine drives a generator for recharging inflight.

    An exiting aspect of this is the effort to deploy superconductive cabling from a Russian company.

    More on suppliers here:
    E-Fan Electric Aircraft - Aerospace Technology

    The batteries are supplied by CleanCarb, which produces the KOKAM brand. The company is German with technological roots from several European academics. An interesting aspect of this, not mentioned in the Arbus information, is that CleanCarb is deeply involved with ultracapacitor research also.
    Products and Services

    An acquaintance of mine tells me that the hope is to integrate SOA cells with superconductors, soa ducted fans and ultracapacitors to reduce the wasted energy and weight of cabling/power transmission (can reach >6% of total weight in large traditional commercial aircraft) while using sao avionics and other systems to reduce weight and improve performance.

    A more traditional approach has been used by Embraer, which has a flying demonstrator now:
    First flight | Revista Pesquisa FAPESP

    This one was developed from the Sora, a Brazilian entry in the Light Sport Aircraft category. It uses currently available technology and suppliers, so does not test the technological boundaries as does the Airbus project, but it does prove that the concept works in a reasonably practical way.

    The most interesting part of all this beyond the future possibilities is the question of the impact these might have on flight training. if a pilot has initial training on the Airbus, for example, while the pilot have a multi-engine rating since there are two motors and fans? of course it has no engines: does that mean it will be a new category? Will a private pilot earning that license in an Airbus be considered qualifies to fly an ICE equivalent? The entire light aircraft licensing process in the US (Part 23 of the Federal Aviation Regulations) is now being rewritten. These developments will give the regulators headaches just as did the B787 before it. One hopes Airbus has learned from the Boeing debacle.

    FWIW, the NTSB hearings on Li-ion in transportation included testimony from Tesla engineers who described the Tesla approach to quality control, well in excess to any other in use at the time including that of the US Navy in nuclear submarines.
     
  5. mhpr262

    mhpr262 Member

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    I still wonder why they went with two ducted fans. That has to be about the least efficient and most expensive solution to the problem "battery powered aircraft" there is. One large propeller driven by a single smaller high-rpm motor over a reduction gear ought to be vastly more efficient. I bet they could have doubled the range and flying time.
     
  6. dhanson865

    dhanson865 Active Member

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    to avoid a single point of failure.

    a bird strike taking out a single propeller on the nose would be trouble.

    also a propeller on the front is more dangerous for ground crew than a over wing mounted setup.

    but Wikipedia lists other reasons

    what I want to know is the kWh of the battery pack on the plane.
     
  7. deonb

    deonb Active Member

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    "Researchers at Airbus Group are focusing on superconductors – materials which have the property of zero electrical resistance when cooled to extremely low temperatures, normally around -245ºC. "

    Should someone perhaps give them a call and tell them they can use copper oxide superconductors at up to -140ºC these days?

    Anybody?
     
  8. rabar10

    rabar10 FFE until Model 3

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    In fairness to Airbus, that quote reads more like a journalist said "Ooh, superconductors, let me Wikipedia that!" and then pasted in what they learned.
     
  9. GSP

    GSP Member

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    Are the high temperature superconductors now capable of working under high current and strong magnetic fields? Perhaps so, but if not then traditional superconductors, like those used in the not very old LHC, will be needed.

    GSP
     
  10. mhpr262

    mhpr262 Member

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    Tens of thousands of single engine aircraft flying today seem to be doing just fine with a single propeller mounted in front .. and yes, ducting increases thrust and reduces noise- but only compared to a non-ducted propeller of IDENTICAL SIZE. No way it will ever reach the quietness, performance and efficency of a single prop with four or five times the diameter.

    I have come to suspect the decision was made simply because of the "cool" factor - ducted fans are not something you can really do with IC engines, and they look like jet engines.
     
  11. dhanson865

    dhanson865 Active Member

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    #11 dhanson865, Jun 26, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2015
    I don't think a 4 times the diameter prop would clear the ground if it were mounted on the nose of that craft. Folding prop required or longer landing gear? or are you suggesting they change the shape of the entire plane to keep the propeller from digging in on a landing? Keep in mind regulations require at least 7" clearance from ground to propeller for nose wheel landing gear planes.

    DSC_2832.2015-01-27-11-23-19.JPG
    _MGL1017_mediumRes.2015-01-27-15-05-11.jpg

     
  12. purplewalt

    purplewalt Active Member

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    History was made this past week, as TWO electric planes have now crossed the English Channel.

    First was a CriCri by pilot Hugues Duwal, and then about 3 hours later, the Airbus E-Fan.
    Sort of like myfastlady being the first Tesla Model S to make the cross country (USA) drive using only Superchargers, the little guy beat Airbus across the Channel.

    And a third electric plan is supposed to cross the Channel this week.
    The Pipistrel Alpha Electro (actual prototype name: Watts Up), but Siemens may have recalled that motor.


    In an unrelated turn, the Solar powered plane which just travelled from Japan to Hawaii will be resting for the next eight months. On the flight over, they overstressed the batteries, and need to work on the cooling system. It is scheduled to resume its trip back to Dubai next April, 2016.
     

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