Electrify America Fast Chargers - Huh?

[MorrisonHiker]

Remember that the cables required for 150kW+ charging are much thicker, heavier and less flexible then lower-power cables. I have not seen any DC chargers with that kind of power that use retractable cables. Some EVGo chargers have them, but they usually only provide 50kW.

Yeah, I might've been thinking of the ChargePoint Express Plus. I guess it's not retractable but the top of the unit could swivel. I don't know if any of those actually exist. I just remember the press releases. Each would have two cables but would have different plugs. I think they even showed off one with triple cables (one for Tesla) at one event.

 

[miimura]

Yeah, I might've been thinking of the ChargePoint Express Plus. I guess it's not retractable but the top of the unit could swivel. I don't know if any of those actually exist. I just remember the press releases. Each would have two cables but would have different plugs. I think they even showed off one with triple cables (one for Tesla) at one event.
View attachment 444716

These are finally being installed, but I think only the 62.5kW version, not the 125kW or higher versions announced at CES 2017.

The Laytonville, CA Supercharger site also has these, funded by a grant from the California Energy Commission.

Image from Plugshare.

I also spotted this one closer to you in Colorado.

Plugshare - Eagle Chambers Park & Ride

Edit: sorry for extending the off-topic tangent...

 

[miimura]

One complaint I do have is that the EA iPhone app requires me to log in again every time I use it (after several days pass without use) in order to see what kind of stations are installed at a location. Can't they store a token or something? Ever heard of Touch ID EA?

 

[Jeff N]

One complaint I do have is that the EA iPhone app requires me to log in again every time I use it (after several days pass without use) in order to see what kind of stations are installed at a location. Can't they store a token or something? Ever heard of Touch ID EA?

On iPhone the app login password can be saved so that subsequent log-ins can be auto-filled via Touch ID.

 

[miimura]

On iPhone the app login password can be saved so that subsequent log-ins can be auto-filled via Touch ID.

I found the Touch ID switch after some fumbling around. Hopefully that does the trick. Thanks Jeff.

 

[cwerdna]

Yeah, I might've been thinking of the ChargePoint Express Plus. I guess it's not retractable but the top of the unit could swivel. I don't know if any of those actually exist. I just remember the press releases. Each would have two cables but would have different plugs. I think they even showed off one with triple cables (one for Tesla) at one event.
View attachment 444716

There's a 62.5 kW unit at ChargePoint HQ: PlugShare - Find Electric Vehicle Charging Locations Near You. I've used it and so has Jeff N here.

 

[miimura]

There's a 62.5 kW unit at ChargePoint HQ: PlugShare - Find Electric Vehicle Charging Locations Near You. I've used it and so has Jeff N here.

Yes, that one has been there a long time. To me it doesn't count because it was a beta unit at their headquarters. It took them a really long time to get them into production and deployed in public.

 

[DrDabbles]

Reading the Q2 2019 Electrify America CARB report, it looks like the number of stations put into service was abysmal. They're complaining that they scheduled 35 days for permitting (laughable everywhere in the US), that the national average is taking 45 days (impressive anywhere in the US), and California can take up to 69 days. This would absolutely already have been known by the time EA started rolling out chargers, so why they're complaining I don't understand.

They seem quite proud of themselves, which I also don't understand. Their total number of chargers is shockingly few (still), though they continue to promise great things. Partnering with ChargePoint and EVGo is likely their best plan possible, though I worry that partnering with another network will somehow allow them to claim those chargers as part of meeting their goal.

I see 279 locations total in the US that offer DCFC and are live now. That's seriously awful progress. What we all need is for a serious investment to be made in chargers across the US, especially in areas with high rates of multi-dwelling units and renters. Without apartment and condo livers being able to easily charge, the market for EVs is going to slow down.

 

[miimura]

Just to be clear, nobody is doing a great job deploying fast chargers these days in America. Tesla has a number of sites that are visually complete, but are missing pedestals. There are sites that are complete with pedestals and utility transformer, yet still aren't available for use. ChargePoint was given grants to install DCFC on major California corridors two plus years ago and multiple sites are sitting there with the chargers installed and are either waiting for utility transformer or even have the transformer but are still idle and not available for use. EA is the same way. They have several sites in California where the chargers have been installed for months, but still sit idle with no explanation.

The terms of the settlement are pretty clear, they need to build new sites. The interoperability with other networks is just for convenience, but I've never seen an explanation of how pricing will be handled. I have no problem using different apps or cards for different networks. At least I know whose rates I will get at any given site.

 

[Feathermerchan]

But Tesla has over a thousand operating sites now.
And you can see the occupancy at a site before you get there.
If a site becomes inoperable you know about it.
As far as I can tell, Tesla charges somewhere around half of what others charge.

 

[DrDabbles]

But Tesla has over a thousand operating sites now.
And you can see the occupancy at a site before you get there.
If a site becomes inoperable you know about it.
As far as I can tell, Tesla charges somewhere around half of what others charge.

Exactly. It wouldn't be a big deal for EA if their site count was an order of magnitude more than it is now. Tesla doesn't need to focus on numbers now, they need to focus on location. EA needs to do both, and are doing neither.

 

[Eno Deb]

But Tesla has over a thousand operating sites now.

According to the DoE they have 678 supercharger sites in the US. If EA manages to get near the ~480 operating sites by the end of the year as planned, I'd say that would be pretty damn impressive given that they only started last year while Tesla started in, what, 2012?

And you can see the occupancy at a site before you get there.

You can see that in the EA app too (if you are logged in). You can even see an estimate how much longer the charge session will take if a charger is occupied.

If a site becomes inoperable you know about it.

Same for EA.

As far as I can tell, Tesla charges somewhere around half of what others charge.

The EA pricing model is indeed unfortunate. They also have the disadvantage that they can't subsidize the rate like Tesla can. But eventually this will (hopefully) become a real market where competition will regulate the pricing.

 

[Feathermerchan]

678 sites with 6340 outlets. That does not count Tesla destination chargers.
When you filter for all Tesla connectors you get 4,345 stations and 14,643 charging outlets.

 

[Feathermerchan]

This says 1587 stations:
Tesla Is Supercharging Itself Far Ahead Of All Others
But that is world wide.

 

[XHabjab]

678 sites with 6340 outlets. That does not count Tesla destination chargers.
When you filter for all Tesla connectors you get 4,345 stations and 14,643 charging outlets.

As of today (Aug 23 2019), there are 770 US sites. Crowdsourced, well maintained data is available here. The international (Mexico, Europe, Asia) info can get a little behind, but it is pretty much accurate and up to date for US + Canada, and much better than DoE. There will likely be different numbers tomorrow.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

As of today (Aug 23 2019), there are 770 US* sites. Crowdsourced, well maintained data is available here. The international (Mexico, Europe, Asia) info can get a little behind, but it is pretty much accurate and up to date for US + Canada, and much better than DoE. There will likely be different numbers tomorrow.

*770 North American sites, not 770 US sites.

 

[Eno Deb]

678 sites with 6340 outlets. That does not count Tesla destination chargers.
When you filter for all Tesla connectors you get 4,345 stations and 14,643 charging outlets.

Sure, but I thought we were comparing DC chargers? If you want to include L2, regular J1772 chargers dwarf Tesla (over 16,000 stations according to the DoE).

 

[Eno Deb]

*770 North American sites, not 770 US sites.

That's a fairly good match with the DoE site, which shows 739 sites for US+Canada. You can actually download a spreadsheet with a list of the locations from the web page. According to the dates it's updated frequently.

 

[XHabjab]

*770 North American sites, not 770 US sites.

Yup you're right. 690 US, 64 Canada, 16 Mexico as of now.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

That's a fairly good match with the DoE site, which shows 739 sites for US+Canada. You can actually download a spreadsheet with a list of the locations from the web page. According to the dates it's updated frequently.

Yep. I worked for the DoE at NREL for 8 years and worked with the AFDC folks from time to time. Since I knew about the AFDC listings, I passed the info on to the A Better Routeplanner developer and he added calls to their APIs. Now they show up in ABRP too.