Electrify America Fast Chargers - Huh?

[Eno Deb]

Yep. I worked for the DoE at NREL for 8 years and worked with the AFDC folks from time to time. Since I knew about the AFDC listings, I passed the info on to the A Better Routeplanner developer and he added calls to their APIs. Now they show up in ABRP too.

Where do they actually get the data? Is it all self-reported by the operators?

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Where do they actually get the data? Is it all self-reported by the operators?

I don't know the details I know they had some bulk processes but there was also a form that allowed individuals (either owners or users) to report sites via a web form.

 

[e of pi]

I've been keeping an eye on the EA build-out, and here's some numbers

I figured it was a good time to provide an updated count, since I had the chance to not just update my state-by-state counts of open stations, but also went through and checked all of the in-progress or permitted stations.

As before, my data source was Plugshare, which shows 283 stations on their maps. However, I count several that are added before the site is open and don't show it or which are out of commission due to one issue or another. Their rate of install has been relatively high, but their pipeline may be drying up a bit.

• Over the year to date they've averaged 0.9 stations opened per day (6.3/week)
• Since my last update in May, they opened 100 stations, a rate of 0.882 stations per day
• Over the last month they opened 26 stations for a rate of 0.765 per day
• Over the last two weeks have averaged 0.563 stations per day.

Plugshare shows 453 open stations or planned sites marked on their map. I looked at their entries for as many as I could, and found the following data:

• 272 open (as noted)
• 11 in some form of repair or with reliability bad enough to lower their PlugScore to 1.
• 73 sites have charger pedestals mounted, this includes those that are awaiting commissioning, those in need of utility transformers, and those that just have the chargers erected but are still in the process of finishing paving.
• 9 are currently in trenching phases--either digging the trenches, laying conduit, or refilling the trench and setting up to pour bases for the pedestals.
• 80 were pre-trench or lacked sufficient data in images or check-ins to figure out status. 60 of these are in California alone.

In the course of looking nationwide, my total count of stations is only 443. I'm pretty confident in my count of opened stations, meaning it's likely an issue in the state-by-state count of construction site statuses. In other words, I think I didn't click on or missed counting ten or so construction sites--not sure which category they fall into.

Back in May, I said their pipeline looked robust. That's looking true for sites in finishing and commissioning, but they have fewer sites noted in earlier phases of construction (a lot of the Cali ones seem to just be permits, with no equipment on site). This is sort of reflected in the recent slowdown in sit openings. I think they're still very much on track for 350+ stations--indeed, just finishing the current stations in ground but not activated would bring them to 350. I'm currently projecting just shy of 375, but I doubt they'll hit 400 unless something changes. It'll be interesting to see if the rate picks back up as they go into a second cycle of construction. Even so, it's a dense enough network to let a 200 mile range CCS car travel a lot of places they couldn't a year ago.

With that said, I'd say that the bigger concern right now is reliability. As noted, I count about 10-12 stations that are shown online on PlugShare, but are reported as non-functional by users or with extremely low PlugScores. That percentage has been pretty constant, and it's frustrating if not disastrous for people who might be relying on EA to close gaps on long road trips--the main thing their contributing to the broader CCS network right now. Only about 70% of their stations have a PlugScore of 7 or above. They've also had the struggles with cooling equipment with some of their pedestal suppliers that have several stations limited to 50 kW instead of the nameplate 150 kW CCS operation, and card/app authentication seems to have some pain points. I hope this improves as their stations mature.

 

[Jeff N]

Electrify America’s app today shows 450 total sites with 284 open and the rest under development (typically meaning at least the permits are approved). Their most recently stated goal is 484 sites open by the end of this year.

 

[DrDabbles]

Electrify America’s app today shows 450 total sites with 284 open and the rest under development (typically meaning at least the permits are approved). Their most recently stated goal is 484 sites open by the end of this year.

Be sure to disable L2 only sites so it only counts open DCFC spots, too.

 

[ralph142]

average number of stalls per site? around here I see 2 stalls per site, some places it isnt clear that there are really even 2.

 

[e of pi]

average number of stalls per site? around here I see 2 stalls per site, some places it isnt clear that there are really even 2.

Their most common installation size is four stalls per site, some with six or eight. I've seen seen as many as ten, though these locations seem somewhat random (e.g. I'm not sure why Cincinnati has 10, while no site near it has more than 8). (Each stall has two cables, but only one cable at each stall can be used at a time.)

 

[miimura]

average number of stalls per site? around here I see 2 stalls per site, some places it isnt clear that there are really even 2.

There are 4 active EA sites between Bellingham and Seattle. One site has 3 stalls, 2 sites have 4 stalls and one site has 10 stalls.
Plugshare - EA - Mt. Vernon
Plugshare - EA - Tulalip
Plugshare - EA - Everett (Everett Mall Way)
Plugshare - EA - Everett (WA-99)

 

[jelloslug]

average number of stalls per site? around here I see 2 stalls per site, some places it isnt clear that there are really even 2.

There was one recently built near me and it is four stalls. The Supercharger location just a mile away is eight stalls.

 

[ralph142]

Perhaps I’m not looking exclusively at ea sites, looks like most do have 4.

 

[Eno Deb]

Perhaps I’m not looking exclusively at ea sites, looks like most do have 4.

Yes. According to the Alternative Fuels Data Center, EA currently has 283 fast charging sites with 1261 outlets, i.e. the average number of outlets per site is around 4.5.

 

[Jeff N]

Be sure to disable L2 only sites so it only counts open DCFC spots, too.

I’m not aware of any L2-only sites being listed on the EA app.

They are building L2-only sites in certain metro areas but the work is subcontracted out to other charging providers. Perhaps they will list those sites in the app in a future update.

 

[Jeff N]

There was one recently built near me and it is four stalls. The Supercharger location just a mile away is eight stalls.

Tesla started off building a lot of 4-stall sites during the initial build-out and then scaled up later. I assume EA is following a similar approach.

 

[DrDabbles]

I’m not aware of any L2-only sites being listed on the EA app.

They are building L2-only sites in certain metro areas but the work is subcontracted out to other charging providers. Perhaps they will list those sites in the app in a future update.

When you un-check L2 on their map the charger count drops to nearly half.

 

[Jeff N]

When you un-check L2 on their map the charger count drops to nearly half.

I just tried in the latest update of the app and tried turning off the CCS, CHAdeMO and L2 settings in various combinations and it didn’t seem to change the map. Maybe they broke that part of it?

In any case, I’ve never seen any L2-only listings on their map. Can you name one so I can look at it?

 

[DrDabbles]

I just tried in the latest update of the app and tried turning off the CCS, CHAdeMO and L2 settings in various combinations and it didn’t seem to change the map. Maybe they broke that part of it?

In any case, I’ve never seen any L2-only listings on their map. Can you name one so I can look at it?

It does look like they broke this feature. I don't use their network, and I don't track individual locations so I can't say where an L2 only location would be. The EA press info does mention they're deploying L2 only locations, though.

 

[cwerdna]

I thought Electrify America Talks Charging Network Problems, Has Solutions was a good piece and gave me a lot more context.

I think some key takeaways are:
- Use their app! They know they have some credit card reader problems
- Report your successes and failures to PlugShare. If you have a problem w/their stations, call them! Report it on PlugShare!
- If you have a Kona Electric or Niro EV, don't use their chargers until they resolve their pricing issue. You will otherwise get reamed.

Also, I'm unhappy that they're stacking the deck in favor of their own (VW) vehicles. If people have CHAdeMO cars and/or use their/a CHAdeMO adapters, relay that message to EA. Maybe if enough people complain, they might do something about it.

A few more have finally been activated in my part of the SF Bay Area but two sites that are sorta near home have had the chargers in place for quite some time but no power. Previously, the closest one was at least 50 miles away in an area where I'd never go anyway.

 

[mspohr]

I thought Electrify America Talks Charging Network Problems, Has Solutions was a good piece and gave me a lot more context.

I think some key takeaways are:
- Use their app! They know they have some credit card reader problems
- Report your successes and failures to PlugShare. If you have a problem w/their stations, call them! Report it on PlugShare!
- If you have a Kona Electric or Niro EV, don't use their chargers until they resolve their pricing issue. You will otherwise get reamed.

Also, I'm unhappy that they're stacking the deck in favor of their own (VW) vehicles. If people have CHAdeMO cars and/or use their/a CHAdeMO adapters, relay that message to EA. Maybe if enough people complain, they might do something about it.

A few more have finally been activated in my part of the SF Bay Area but two sites that are sorta near home have had the chargers in place for quite some time but no power. Previously, the closest one was at least 50 miles away in an area where I'd never go anyway.

Good article. Sounds like they are improving and working hard.
I still don't understand why they choose to go with four different companies to develop their high power chargers. Seems like that's the source of a lot of the problems.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Good article. Sounds like they are improving and working hard.
I still don't understand why they choose to go with four different companies to develop their high power chargers. Seems like that's the source of a lot of the problems.

Because they are idiots? As the article said, they made the decision themselves to roll out the network very quickly. Why?

They wanted to use liquid cooled cables, when anyone paying attention knew that Tesla had rolled out ONE site with liquid cooled cables and then pulled it to do further design work. Maybe that means liquid cooled cables are hard and you should proceed slowly.

The article also says they had to press four different manufacturers to deliver something they had never built before, and then they installed 100 of these a month? Idiotic is the only word I can come up with. Is the CEO 27 years old? That’s a mistake a young engineer with no real world experience would make. In the real world, things don’t work like that.

And then there’s this:

“We keep increasing the size of the team that monitors the chargers on a daily basis, in fact just 2 weeks ago we doubled the team, and by the end of January, we’ll have the team in full force. You ask why we didn’t have a larger team until now, and the answer quite honestly is we didn’t have the ability to dial into any specific station and look at its operation, we now have that ability”

So they rolled out these chargers with no remote monitoring? Yikes! I mean honestly, any random long time TMC member would have made better decisions than EA has.

 

[Eno Deb]

Also, I'm unhappy that they're stacking the deck in favor of their own (VW) vehicles. If people have CHAdeMO cars and/or use their/a CHAdeMO adapters, relay that message to EA. Maybe if enough people complain, they might do something about it.

There are in fact very few native Chademo vehicles on the road in the US that have enough range to be usable for road trips (essentially only the Leaf Plus, which doesn't sell all that well). All other non-Tesla EVs coming to the market use CCS. It's pretty obvious where this is going. I think putting more effort into Chademo support would be a waste of precious resources at this point.

As for Teslas, it would be much preferable if Tesla made a CCS Combo 1 adapter since (judging from the European Combo 2 adapter) it would be less expensive, smaller, and support higher power levels than the Chademo adapter.

After reading this article, I'm fairly impressed with what EA is doing. They are deploying chargers at a significantly faster pace than Tesla did at a comparable stage, all while having to deal with multiple suppliers, multiple car brands, multiple payment methods etc. They also have a very limited budget for employees, so they have no choice but to work with suppliers and contractors a lot. Sure, you could blame them from being too aggressive, but if they were slower they'd be bashed for that ...