Electrify America general discussion

[theothertom]

According to the article, there are 50 vehicles in lines and 40 chargers.

The article is dated Dec 2019. Tesla has added a lot of chargers since that time.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

According to the article, there are 50 vehicles in lines and 40 chargers.

That means that 10 vehicles have to wait 2 vehicles to charge while 40 vehicles only have to wait for 1 vehicle to charge.

Note that that was 2019.
As I recall people noted that Kettleman City turned over quite quickly, Tesla having somebody directing vehicles.
They added another location in Kettleman City in 11/2021 (just before Thanksgiving) and there are now 95 stalls across the 2 sites.

Also, Thanksgiving 2019 had I-5 closed on Sunday, so people were taking US-101 instead.
San Luis Obispo was a relatively new 14-stall site so that got slammed.
Atascadero to the north was also busy, but is only a slow 8 stall v2 so people would naturally have gone to SLO instead.
Also, San Luis Obispo, CA is south of the split to CA-1 in case people were coming from or going to the coastal CA-1.

Making it worse, at the time there was a gap over 100 miles on US-101 between Salinas, CA and Atascadero, CA and a bit larger to San Luis Obispo, CA so drivers were more likely to _have_ to stop, adding to the choke.

Since then Tesla has added a number of v3 (250kW) Superchargers in and between San Luis Obispo and Salinas:
- 9/2020 Paso Robles, CA - 28 stalls
- 12/2020 Greenfield, CA - 12 stalls
- 5/2021 San Luis Obispo - Los Osos Valley Rd, CA - 16 stalls
- 11/2021 San Luis Obispo - Higuera St, CA - 20 stalls
- 11/2021 Soledad - Front St, CA - 8 stalls
- 6/2022 Soledad - H Dela Rosa St, CA - 7 stalls
South of San Luis Obispo there's:
- 6/2020 Pismo Beach, CA - 12 stalls
- 6/2021 Arroyo Grande - W Branch Rd, CA - 8 stalls
- 5/2022 Santa Maria - CA - 20 stalls
North of Salinas there's:
- 11/2021 Gilroy - Camino Arroyo, CA

(Those 11/2021s aren't a coincidence - they try to get them done before Thanksgiving).

So by Thanksgiving 2020 they'd split the gap in Paso Robles, CA, and relieved some pressure with Pismo Beach, CA.
By Thanksgiving 2021 they'd added capacity in San Luis Obispo and added more density and capacity between Salinas, CA and San Luis Obispo, CA by adding Greenfield, CA and Soledad, CA, as well as adding another Gilroy area Supercharger.

The density as well as capacity is important, because density helps to spread out and optimizes charging.

Obviously they've sold a lot of Teslas as well, so they have to keep adding capacity, but it's clear they responded to particular pressures.

They worked on solving the problem like Quartzsite, AZ, which had been a huge choke point in 2018 due to limited power, 8 stalls and being the only Supercharger location in a 217 mile stretch.. They didn't complete the major new work in time for Thanksgiving 2019, so they added some temporary urban chargers and had signs at Buckeye, AZ suggesting that people do a full charge there.

Ehrenburg, AZ opened 11/27/2019 to provide an alternative. They completed the Quartzsite, AZ upgrade, just before July 4th 2020 (notice a pattern). It now has 36 stalls, with the newer stalls being v3.

ADDENDUM:
It seems up here that they're adding a 12-stall location in Waterville, ME. Although I see a Tesla daily, this isn't exactly Tesla country. I'd expected it to 8 stall but I saw what looked like 3 cabinets so it could be 12 stall. Why?

On April 8th 2024 there will be a total eclipse and Jackman, ME will be near the centre of the path of totality, so there could be many Tesla owners in the Northeast who want to head up I-95 and US-201.

Tesla got burned on the last total eclipse with long lines at Superchargers in remote Northern California and Southern Oregon. The gaps were too large, and the sites were old, with too few stalls. They have a bunch more capacity and Superchargers on that stretch now.

 

[Mockingbird]

Why wouldn't Ford deliver more BEVs than Rivian?

The F150 Lighting is going to sell like hotcakes, and Ford can leverage revenue from ICE Trucks/SUV's to fund EV development.

Rivians goal isn't to sell a LOT of EV's like Tesla's goal is.

Rivian was supposed to be “the next Tesla” with the biggest IPO of the year.

It’s all hype.

Even if Rivian somehow survives, it’s only going to be a minor player.

 

[Mockingbird]

How much time are we talking about, though? A 40 stall site should be turning a vehicle over once per minute if the average charging session is 40 minutes. Many charging sessions are shorter than that (my average is <20 minutes), so I would would expect an even faster turnover rate.

Exactly.

…and it’s not as if most people never had to wait at a gas station before

 

[kylinblue]

Went to Charlotte, NC on Monday again. When I need to leave at the end of the day I checked the nearby Supercharger at it was full (8 of 8, 150kw). Since I have a CCS adapter, I simply went to the EA station nearby that had no one there. Took ~5 minutes to fumble around and found one working dispenser (150kw). Used the trick to activate charger in app first, then plug in (thanks to Kyle on Out Of Spec). Walked into Walmart to use the bathroom and get a drink, by the time I walked out my car is ready to leave. Spent 10 minutes and gained about 80 miles.
yes I got there at 6am, noon is my "end of day"

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Rivian was supposed to be “the next Tesla” with the biggest IPO of the year.

It’s all hype.

Even if Rivian somehow survives, it’s only going to be a minor player.

That's the hype machine for you, but I haven't seen anything from Rivian that suggests they plan on trying to be within the top 3 EV providers.

I do see the potential for them to be within the top 5 in North America.

There are a lot of missing in action companies like Toyota, Subaru, Honda, Mazda, etc.

The major players I see are Tesla, Hyundai, Ford, and VW (which includes Audi/Porsche)

 

[MP3Mike]

That's the hype machine for you, but I haven't seen anything from Rivian that suggests they plan on trying to be within the top 3 EV providers.

Haven't they said that they are planning to have 10% of the EV market by 2030?

“We’re absolutely making progress. The plant is starting to ramp nicely,” Scaringe said, later noting that Rivian has the brand position to build out a portfolio that would allow the company to “work toward building a position of 10% market share within the EV space.”

Rivian aims to take 10% share of the EV market by 2030

At the 2022 Wolfe Research Virtual Global Auto, Auto Tech, and Mobility Conference, RJ Scaringe stated that Rivian Automotive wants to capture a 10% stake in the EV market by 2030. Rivian may still be dealing with the ongoing chip shortage, but the Rivian CEO believes that the company is still...

www.teslarati.com

And wouldn't you think that the EV market will be 80+% of the vehicle market by 2030?

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Exactly.

…and it’s not as if most people never had to wait at a gas station before

On road trips with a Diesel van I've noticed waiting happens quite a bit.

Sometimes its because of broken pumps
Sometimes its because its the only good gas station in the area
Sometimes its because you don't want to wait, but you end up costing yourself 10 minutes of driving around
Sometimes its because people are inconsiderate and spend a bunch of time in the store buying things before bothering to pump their gas.
Sometimes its because people pay cash so they have to go into the store to pay for it
Sometimes its because the side you need is blocked, and trying to get around would be a huge hassle.

To me a minimally viable EA/Supercharger station would have

20+ Stalls with a few pull throughs
Clean Restroom within a short walk
Vending Machine for Water or some kind of Amazon Go like store.
Cameras for security

Maybe 7/11 should get on board with EV charging.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Haven't they said that they are planning to have 10% of the EV market by 2030?

Rivian aims to take 10% share of the EV market by 2030

At the 2022 Wolfe Research Virtual Global Auto, Auto Tech, and Mobility Conference, RJ Scaringe stated that Rivian Automotive wants to capture a 10% stake in the EV market by 2030. Rivian may still be dealing with the ongoing chip shortage, but the Rivian CEO believes that the company is still...

www.teslarati.com

And wouldn't you think that the EV market will be 80+% of the vehicle market by 2030?

10% of the EV market seems to be a perfectly reasonable goal.

I don't see the EV market being 80% of the vehicle market by 2030. Where did you get that figure from?

This article suggests that BEV's will only account for roughly 30% in the US.

One in Two Cars Sold Will Have Electric Powertrain by 2030 - Counterpoint

- One in Two Cars Sold Will Have Electric Powertrain by 2030 - Counterpoint

www.counterpointresearch.com

 

[Mockingbird]

That's the hype machine for you, but I haven't seen anything from Rivian that suggests they plan on trying to be within the top 3 EV providers.

I do see the potential for them to be within the top 5 in North America.

There are a lot of missing in action companies like Toyota, Subaru, Honda, Mazda, etc.

The major players I see are Tesla, Hyundai, Ford, and VW (which includes Audi/Porsche)

You forgot GM, who is build three battery plants.

 

[Mockingbird]

On road trips with a Diesel van I've noticed waiting happens quite a bit.

Sometimes its because of broken pumps
Sometimes its because its the only good gas station in the area
Sometimes its because you don't want to wait, but you end up costing yourself 10 minutes of driving around
Sometimes its because people are inconsiderate and spend a bunch of time in the store buying things before bothering to pump their gas.
Sometimes its because people pay cash so they have to go into the store to pay for it
Sometimes its because the side you need is blocked, and trying to get around would be a huge hassle.

To me a minimally viable EA/Supercharger station would have

20+ Stalls with a few pull throughs
Clean Restroom within a short walk
Vending Machine for Water or some kind of Amazon Go like store.
Cameras for security

Maybe 7/11 should get on board with EV charging.

Do you realize that a huge part of the US has very low population density?

I doubt that a charging station in Wyoming needs 20+ chargers.

 

[Exelion]

Maybe 7/11 should get on board with EV charging.

They already have, just need a LOT more of them.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Do you realize that a huge part of the US has very low population density?

I doubt that a charging station in Wyoming needs 20+ chargers.

I was referring to averages for well traveled routes.

Obviously a scale factor would be added in.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

They already have, just need a LOT more of them.

View attachment 827946

I mostly meant that as a Joke.

But, it is cool to see them at least starting.

The closest one to me is all the way in Cali and is only capable of 90 kW.

https://www.7-eleven.com/7charge

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

You forgot GM, who is build three battery plants.

GM has issues executing.

 

[Mockingbird]

GM has issues executing.

Which "issues" are these?

 

[Mockingbird]

Albert Lea, MN location is open

 

[ambudriver03]

Today made a trip down to Georgia to get Del Taco (There aren't any in Tennessee), and stopped at the EA station just outside of Chattanooga, (Collegedale, TN);

They've got an 8 stall set-up, which somewhat makes sense since the ID4 is made down the street at the Chattanooga - VW USA factory.
Unfortunately 01 - 350kw unit, is completely out of service, and 02 only fed my vehicle 339 amps, instead of the max of 500. (I didn't check to see if it was limited to 350 amps, so in this case getting 339 of 350, might not be too bad) (132kw max output), Station 03 which is allegedly the other 350kw unit, was in use when I arrived, and they disconnected right before I left.

150kw station 02, maxed at 339A and 127kw via SMT, delivered 20.00 kwh according to EA, cost $2.90; 14.5c/kwh.

 

[Mockingbird]

Today made a trip down to Georgia to get Del Taco (There aren't any in Tennessee), and stopped at the EA station just outside of Chattanooga, (Collegedale, TN);

They've got an 8 stall set-up, which somewhat makes sense since the ID4 is made down the street at the Chattanooga - VW USA factory.
Unfortunately 01 - 350kw unit, is completely out of service, and 02 only fed my vehicle 339 amps, instead of the max of 500. (I didn't check to see if it was limited to 350 amps, so in this case getting 339 of 350, might not be too bad) (132kw max output), Station 03 which is allegedly the other 350kw unit, was in use when I arrived, and they disconnected right before I left.

150kw station 02, maxed at 339A and 127kw via SMT, delivered 20.00 kwh according to EA, cost $2.90; 14.5c/kwh.

Those older Signet units are limited to 350A, so technically unit 02 is functioning as expected.

 

[ambudriver03]

Those older Signet units are limited to 350A, so technically unit 02 is functioning as expected.

Yeah, I realized that was a possibility after I hit 'post'.

All in all, an interesting site, interestingly enough I didn't see any ID4s there while I was charging, but saw plenty of VW billboards advertising that they were built locally, while driving up and down I-75 into Georgia. and was significantly cheaper at 24c/min than both the Tesla Supercharger (edit: added pricing), and the several EVGO units (31c/min)


Tesla - Chattanooga, TN
6 stalls (150 kW max)
Charging Fees

0-60 kW	60-100 kW	100-150 kW
$0.23/min	$0.44/min	$0.73/min