Elon about Model 3: "free long distance" Supercharging "not free local"

[ecarfan]

Elon Musk says Tesla Model 3 will include ‘free long-distance charging’

During the shareholder meeting today about the SolarCity merger vote, Elon made this Esther surprising statement:

Quote: "Model 3, from the beginning we said free charging is not included in the Model 3 – free unlimited charging is not included, so, free long distance is, but not free local. It becomes really unwieldy for people to use the gas station approach for electric cars, like, cars should really be charged where you charge your phone, but then you just need to solve the long distance problem which is what the supercharger stations will do".

How Tesla will implement that I do not know.

Discuss.

 

[RedModel3]

Hmm, that sort of negates the latest announcement. If this is the case, it's quite acceptable to me. After all, the initial purpose of the Supercharger network was to make it possible to travel long distances. But the question becomes, what is local? The closest SC to me is 21 miles away. If I'm at the tail end of a trip and I need to charge, how will that work? Oh well, it's too soon to know all the answers.

 

[ecarfan]

I suppose the simplest way to implement what Elon appears to be saying is to geofence the Model 3 so that it is blocked from using any Supercharger FOR FREE within a 200 mile roundtrip from the owner's home address (or a higher mile range for those cars with larger battery options).

Note that the Model 3 could still charge from any Supercharger but it would not be free.

Yes, there are ways that owners could try to trick Tesla to get around that, and there are issues about when you change your home address, are not residing at your home address for an extended period, etc.

But the basic approach seems workable.

 

[Frank99]

Tesla knows where you live. The car has a GPS, and phones home on a regular basis.
Tesla knows when you've been on a trip for the same reason.
Tesla knows the state of your battery for the same reason.
I would guess a rather loose definition will get applied - if you're near home and haven't been on a trip, you'll be asked to pay for the supercharge. If you're away from home, or returning from a trip with a low battery, you'll be welcomed at the SC with free juice.
It's not foolproof, and there will be interesting edge cases (let's say I take a vacation in San Diego for three weeks; will Tesla decide I've moved?), but it's not in Tesla's best interest to be too rigid about it. Perhaps this is where the 1000 miles comes in - they'll use it to make gracious decisions in difficult corner cases.

I'm excited about the announcement, if it's implemented the way it sounds.
However, I still plan on treating all these pronouncements as "intents", and not as ironclad fact, until I read the purchase contract on my Model 3.

 

[3Victoria]

Maybe it will work like this: non-local SC is free (?x miles from your home), and you can use you allocated MWhs to charge wherever -- this would be useful say on the return from your trip where you need a top up near your home at a handy local SC.

 

[JoeCoolMan24]

While I hope a geo-fence is the way to go and all long distance travelling is free, he could simply be referring to the 1000 free miles we get on our annual credits when he talked about free long-distance charging, assuming people wouldn't waste their free tokens on local charging.

 

[apacheguy]

I suppose the simplest way to implement what Elon appears to be saying is to geofence the Model 3 so that it is blocked from using any Supercharger FOR FREE within a 200 mile roundtrip from the owner's home address (or a higher mile range for those cars with larger battery options).

That would not work. I frequently charge at superchargers within a 200 mile round trip when I am returning from a long distance trip.

 

[Lloyd]

I believe he is referring to the 400Kwh/year allowed by each car. Time will tell when the announcement rules are published at the end of the year.

 

[eSpiritIV]

There are two types of chargers:
1) Local "destination chargers"
2) Long distance "Superchargers"

To give a reference to where Superchargers are located near me (Portland, OR), I have one in Woodburn OR, 32 miles from city center, or Gresham on the way to the mountains 26 miles away.

If i want to go West to the coast, i have to drive 80 miles to a supercharger

If i want to go North to Seattle on I5, i have to drive half way (90 miles) to Centralia, WA. Same approx distance if i want to drive South towards CA.

I think when he says "Free long distance" travel he means SUPERCHARGERS, not local destination chargers. "Free Long distance" means the 400kwh included for new Tesla owners, NOT unlimited charging. Don't plan on getting any free unlimited charging is what he says, and especially not at "local" destination chargers. No more umlimited charging on New Teslas period

 

[brianman]

Gresham on the way to the mountains 26 miles away.

You mean Sandy, right?

 

[Az_Rael]

suppose the simplest way to implement what Elon appears to be saying is to geofence the Model 3 so that it is blocked from using any Supercharger FOR FREE within a 200 mile roundtrip from the owner's home address (or a higher mile range for those cars with larger battery options).

That supposes that superchargers are placed EXACTLY 200 miles from your home and perfectly placed for your journey. I live in Palmdale CA. If I make a trip up I5 to northern CA, I will leave my house at 100%, yes. I am 73 miles from Tejon Ranch, 111 miles from Buttonwillow and 187 from Tejon Ranch. I am pretty sure I can't make it all the way to Gustine (261 miles with several elevation changes) without stopping at at least one of the closer chargers to top up. That would somehow be "local" charging in your scenario and subject to a fee.

A geofence needs to be MUCH smaller if thats how they do it.


Edit: I see you are saying round trip. That would still flag Tejon Ranch as a "local" charger for me, and I assume I might need Tejon to get over the Grapevine and all the way back to Pamdale when coming home from my trip. Maybe I could do it from Buttonwillow, but it would be nice to have the option if Buttonwillow is throttling or crowded or whatnot.

 

[brkaus]

Just need three cities for the taxi company and rotate the cars between them.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I believe he is referring to the 400Kwh/year allowed by each car. Time will tell when the announcement rules are published at the end of the year.

Good point. That could be simply what he means, not something complicated like geofencing (which people will likely argue about and complain for example that the fence is too small, as is already happening in comments above).

Personally, I've suggested making certain chargers in cities to be paid (the ones Tesla expects locals to use) and the ones in the middle of nowhere (thus largely used for long distance) to continue to be free.

 

[JeffK]

I wonder if there will be any limitations regarding using free long distance charging at any time while on the Tesla network as opposed to paid charging while your tesla is making money.

 

[ecarfan]

I say again: regardless of various edge cases and how many Superchargers are "local" to you and your particular daily commute or regular trips, every car Tesla builds now and in the future is able to Supercharge but sometimes you will have to pay for it. Not a big deal consideing the cost of electricity to run a car is less than the cost of gasoline.

 

[shokunin]

I predict the following:

• Tesla will divide superchargers to two categories: Long distance superchargers and city superchargers. Grandfathered cars will continue using long distance superchargers for free. However, if they want to use city superchargers, they will need to buy credits for those.
• When you trade in a grandfathered car, Tesla will disable free supercharging before they sell it on as a CPO.
• All Model 3 cars will also get 400 kWh/year free credits.
• Unused credits will roll over to next year.
• There won't be any additional price to pay for supercharging hardware. After January 1st, all Tesla cars including the Model 3 will come with supercharger hardware included at no additional cost.
• Tesla will build city superchargers everywhere. Eventually, there will be more city superchargers than long distance superchargers.
• When you sell a grandfathered car to a private party, free supercharging will stay with the car.
• Idle fees will apply to grandfathered cars as well. If you leave your car plugged in more than 10 minutes after supercharging is completed, you will need to pay a fee for that. That means soon (before Dec 10th) Tesla will announce that even grandfathered car owners will need to enter a credit card to their myTesla account.

This post from the other "Update to the Supercharger network policies" thread seems to make a lot sense, at least with the wording that Elon used at the shareholder meeting.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I don't understand Elons words and how this is going to work. Its almost like he's speaking English...but has some words missing in his sentences. Maybe its me. I don't know.

What is a city Supercharger? How would it differ from the city Supercharger?

 

[Beckler]

I'm not sure what people are going on about; what he said was pretty simple. Speculating on how it will be implemented before they tell us, is boring (to me). Anyway I like this announcement. What you want is worry-free travel esp. in self-driving mode. Free means going anywhere you want by any route however often you want, and that's a big plus. Also I think people don't realize with self-driving, very often the road will actually be preferable to air travel. It's essentially a whole new mode.

 

[Pieter Knispel]

Hmm, that sort of negates the latest announcement. If this is the case, it's quite acceptable to me. After all, the initial purpose of the Supercharger network was to make it possible to travel long distances. But the question becomes, what is local? The closest SC to me is 21 miles away. If I'm at the tail end of a trip and I need to charge, how will that work? Oh well, it's too soon to know all the answers.

I would presume in this case the software would recognize that you're making your way from some long distance (with repeated and consistent SC stops along the way) and making your way back to your "home." Thus you wouldn't be charged as you were on a long distance trip and couldn't make it all the way home otherwise. Or at least I would hope they would use this logic.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I'm not sure what people are going on about; what he said was pretty simple. Speculating on how it will be implemented before they tell us, is boring (to me). Anyway I like this announcement. What you want is worry-free travel esp. in self-driving mode. Free means going anywhere you want by any route however often you want, and that's a big plus. Also I think people don't realize with self-driving, very often the road will actually be preferable to air travel. It's essentially a whole new mode.

Reading these posts are voluntary. I wouldn't read them if they are that boring to you.