Elon about Model 3: "free long distance" Supercharging "not free local"

[DragonWatch]

I heard the comment too. Separating the two makes perfect sense to me. Long trips requiring SC stations are years apart and as hotels add charging capability at reasonable rates the need for SCs will be less. If I have to pay out of pocket for a charge every now and then I do not care. As long as I am not forced to buy fossil fuel for an ICE car every couple of days or once a week due to the work or escape routine.

 

[larmor]

I think the SC access for model 3 during long distance travel is a direct challenge to the now continued rise of ICE vehicles and to stand up for the environment.

How can this be done: sell SC stations to businesses.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

That's possible.

Problem is... there are multiple owners that have multiple homes.....miles and miles apart. Where is local for these people?

Not to stereotype people....but it's likely that this is a one-off type of problem, and mostly in the S and X world.

Sure, there will be some Model 3 owners (who likely already have other Teslas as well) that this will affect. But we're talking a proverbial handful when compared to the potential 600-700K Teslas that will be out there worldwide by the end of Model 3 Production Year 1.

They can handle it on a case by case basis.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I think the SC access for model 3 during long distance travel is a direct challenge to the now continued rise of ICE vehicles and to stand up for the environment.

How can this be done: sell SC stations to businesses.

Already underway.

ruby tuesday | Search Results | Electrek

 

[larmor]

Already underway.

ruby tuesday | Search Results | Electrek

This is a great vertical integration!

 

[DragonWatch]

Let me help some of you here about gas prices in Europe. I am a retired soldier both Enlisted and Officer and was on the European tour cycle. Therefore, I ultimately lived in Germany for over nine years. The difference is that the US Government subsidizes gas consumption of all service members. Soldiers and civilians working for the department of defense bought ration cards/tickets thru the PX system. We paid per liter as opposed to gallon, but the monthly allotment allowed us to save up for long distance vacations. I never came home to the states while serving overseas ~ never

The German Government does not drink oil during meetings or while enacting laws. In other words they do not have subsidies for oil producers or consumers.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Elon said, quote: "Model 3, from the beginning we said free charging is not included in the Model 3 – free unlimited charging is not included, so, free long distance is, but not free local."

I see no other way to interpret his most recent statement than: Model 3 free unlimited charging is included but not free local charging.
...

The way it's worded is so awkward it is open to lots of interpretation. It may also be interpreted as below to be consistent with recent announcements:
"Model 3, from the beginning we said free charging is not included in the Model 3 – free unlimited charging is not included, so, free long distance is (400kWh free per year) , but not free local (which involves many more kWh per year)."

So it could simply be the 400kWh per year allowance is to allow for the long distance trips of your average American (matches well to 10% of average annual travel), while the rest is assumed to be local.

Let's wait for the details to be released before drawing too many conclusions.

 

[Darryl]

That would not work. I frequently charge at superchargers within a 200 mile round trip when I am returning from a long distance trip.

I am sure the would have to make the restricted chargers a thing less than 50-75 miles. For me the closest charger is 65 miles away anyway. The people who they are targeting are those who have not made arrangements for overnight charging at or near their residence at a non-Tesla charger.

 

[ecarfan]

It will be interesting to find out how this is going to be implemented - with their customers using the same hardware (SC's) for local and long distance.

I missed what you are saying.
Are you saying that its irrelevant because its inevitable - somehow?

My point was that if you are using a Supercharger that is within a reasonable roundtrip-on-a-single-charge distance from your home you are very likely to be using it for a roundtrip (not always, of course, but the vast majority of the time for the vast majority of owners) and it can be classified as a "local charge".

Problem is... there are multiple owners that have multiple homes.....miles and miles apart. Where is local for these people?

Yes there are some Tesla owners who have more than one home. But I am confident that it is a very small percentage of all S/X owners, and it will be an even smaller percentage of all Model 3 owners since most of them will likely be in a lower income bracket. Feel free to dispute my assertion but please back it up with facts.

Of course no matter what Supercharging system that Tesla implements for Model 3 owners one can always come up with edge cases where people can either trick the system to get free charging or where they might fall outside the parameters of the system and get deprived of what they consider to be a legitimate long distance charging stop.

But the Model 3 Supercharging system doesn't have to work perfectly for every single owner. That won't be possible no matter how the system is designed since the 3 will not be operating under the old "free unlimited for life" model, nor will it apparently not be operating under the "first 400kWh/yr of Supercharging is free" model that Tesla has stated the S and X will be operating under as of 1/1/2017.

The Model 3 Supercharging system just has to be viewed as fair and reasonable by the vast majority of owners. And since the details of it will certainly be announced in advance of any reservation holder committing to a purchase, if someone doesn't like the way the system works they don't have to buy a Model 3.

 

[NikeWings]

I suppose the simplest way to implement what Elon appears to be saying is to geofence the Model 3 so that it is blocked from using any Supercharger FOR FREE within a 200 mile roundtrip from the owner's home address (or a higher mile range for those cars with larger battery options).

Wouldn't penalizing larger batteries with a tighter radius (after already paying a premium for the larger battery) put a dent in future large battery sales? The large batteries already reduce congestion since they can skip SCs at drivers discretion. Whether one decides to stop at mile 175 (so they can skip 2 SCs straight to mile 425) is a function of individual route planning and purpose.

Although we don't know the magnitude of battery sizes for the M3 yet, distinguishing between them for SC usage, seems like a bad idea.

 

[ecarfan]

Wouldn't penalizing larger batteries with a tighter radius (after already paying a premium for the larger battery) put a dent in future large battery sales?

Not in my opinion. People pay for the larger battery options so they can travel farther without charging or so they travel farther under less than ideal conditions. Whether or not they have to pay a few bucks for Supercharging sometimes when they didn't before seems trivial compared to why they bought the bigger battery in the first place.

 

[Topher]

With the way people twist everything Elon says, it is a wonder we can get him to talk at all.

Thank You kindly.

 

[aesculus]

The car pretty much already knows what you are doing, at least if you use Trip Planner.

For example today I go out at 90%, drive 125 miles away and I am down under 50%. No way to make it home. The Trip Planner tells me to charge, usually at the first location along my route that will ensure that I make it back home with about 20%. Note it does not stop me from charging more, but that is just a nuance.

So they could just run the Trip Planner in the background and see where you have been. If you have only been local and can make it home OK then no charge, or just enough to get home. And doing so could flag you for a nasty-gram (and/or debit of a portion of your 400 kWh).

 

[livingthedream]

Elon Musk says Tesla Model 3 will include ‘free long-distance charging’

During the shareholder meeting today about the SolarCity merger vote, Elon made this Esther surprising statement:

Quote: "Model 3, from the beginning we said free charging is not included in the Model 3 – free unlimited charging is not included, so, free long distance is, but not free local. It becomes really unwieldy for people to use the gas station approach for electric cars, like, cars should really be charged where you charge your phone, but then you just need to solve the long distance problem which is what the supercharger stations will do".

How Tesla will implement that I do not know.

Discuss.

To me this just reinforces his previous statement about a free bucket (400kwh). This is intended to cover the long distance charging, making it free for the average person. He doesn't specifically say long distance charging will be unlimited, he says superchargers solve that problem, while the local solution is plugging in nightly like your phone.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Example using P100D ...

... epa estimated fuel economy on my 2007 Prius is 46 mpg

I do the Man maths on these things to suit whatever result I want to get

but I don't think a Prius is a reasonable range comparison for a Model-S Perhaps 30 MPG would be more reasonable for a price comparison?

I've always felt sorry for Europeans and gasoline prices

Two ways to look at that. Whilst higher taxes may not be popular it raises revenue and encourages people to use less - switch to more efficient / smaller / whatever cars, share, drive less, and so on.

The thing I find disappointing is that USA has not also raised taxes on Gas similarly, and used the money to likewise encourage people to use less, as well as pump-priming the transition to new/green tech.

USA is now a net oil exporter again, with the adoption of Fracking, but during the in between period imports were expensive both for balance-of-payments and the cost of going to war. Perhaps higher taxes would have reduced consumption enough to mitigated ...

I wish we had used the windfall from our North Sea Oil revenue for a Sovereign Wealth Fund, as Norway has done.

 

[JeffK]

I do the Man maths on these things to suit whatever result I want to get

but I don't think a Prius is a reasonable range comparison for a Model-S Perhaps 30 MPG would be more reasonable for a price comparison?



Two ways to look at that. Whilst higher taxes may not be popular it raises revenue and encourages people to use less - switch to more efficient / smaller / whatever cars, share, drive less, and so on.

The thing I find disappointing is that USA has not also raised taxes on Gas similarly, and used the money to likewise encourage people to use less, as well as pump-priming the transition to new/green tech.

USA is now a net oil exporter again, with the adoption of Fracking, but during the in between period imports were expensive both for balance-of-payments and the cost of going to war. Perhaps higher taxes would have reduced consumption enough to mitigated ...

I wish we had used the windfall from our North Sea Oil revenue for a Sovereign Wealth Fund, as Norway has done.

In the US we want to eat our cake and have it too

 

[brkaus]

I don't understand Elons words and how this is going to work. Its almost like he's speaking English...but has some words missing in his sentences. Maybe its me. I don't know.

What is a city Supercharger? How would it differ from the city Supercharger?

One OPTION Tesla would have is create a new class of chargers... Look, feel, smell the same as the current models. Just have a different name and located in large population centers. The CityChargers would have fees associated with any/all use. It would let city apartment dwellers as well as weekend getaway people charge. It would give Tesla a way to add more capacity w/o being overloaded with the grandfathered folks.

 

[Garlan Garner]

One OPTION Tesla would have is create a new class of chargers... Look, feel, smell the same as the current models. Just have a different name and located in large population centers. The CityChargers would have fees associated with any/all use. It would let city apartment dwellers as well as weekend getaway people charge. It would give Tesla a way to add more capacity w/o being overloaded with the grandfathered folks.

Theres not enough time for that. This will be implemented in January.

 

[ecarfan]

One OPTION Tesla would have is create a new class of chargers... Look, feel, smell the same as the current models. Just have a different name and located in large population centers.

I see no compelling reason for Tesla to do anything like that. Tesla already has many Superchargers located in large population centers. When Tesla implements the "local vs. long distance" Supercharging system they will have all the information they need to do so: your car's VIN, who owns it, where they live, how much the car has Supercharged, where it has Supercharged, history of recent trips, etc.

 

[ohmman]

The way it's worded is so awkward it is open to lots of interpretation. It may also be interpreted as below to be consistent with recent announcements:
"Model 3, from the beginning we said free charging is not included in the Model 3 – free unlimited charging is not included, so, free long distance is (400kWh free per year) , but not free local (which involves many more kWh per year)."

So it could simply be the 400kWh per year allowance is to allow for the long distance trips of your average American (matches well to 10% of average annual travel), while the rest is assumed to be local.

Let's wait for the details to be released before drawing too many conclusions.

This is how I interpreted it from the beginning. Consistent with the previous announcement, but just shortened up in an Elon way.

What I do take from it is that the announced plan will likely be extended to Model 3, and I think there was some question on that.