Elon "About to end range anxiety"

[Rice390]

This is the definition of range anxiety!

View attachment 74921

Wow, Hitler really let himself go.

My vote on what's to be released - integration of plugshare into the nav system. I'm actually surprised tesla hasn't integrated this already. When my buddies tell me there are no charging stations, I pull up plugshare and they are blown away. This could be a huge selling point for tesla. Figure they buy plugshare for 50 million (wild guess) and integrate it.

 

[mgboyes]

What range anxiety?

Exactly. Interested to hear what he has to say on Thursday, but wish he hadn't insulted 50,000 Model S owners on twitter by suggesting we have range anxiety!

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Be prepared then to be let down majorly sir. I'm going to suggest people lose any hope of some sort of hardware change that will give so much more range it'll end anxiety. There's just no way it's going to happen Thursday so might as well forget about it. When you step back you see it's just too far fetched. Of course I'd be more than glad to be proved wrong!

A Leaf owner has range anxiety, no doubt about it, at only 75 miles of range. But if a Model S owner still has range anxiety at 265 miles of range, nothing that Elon will announce on Thursday regarding potential range improvement via software will change this.

 

[woof]

How to eliminate "Range Anxiety"? Easy! All Tesla communiques will from now on call it "Distance Apprehension". Done and Done.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I think it's noteworthy that this is a scheduled press announcement -- suggesting Elon wants the media present/listening. Many of the ideas speculated here would be handled silently in a software update, email to owners, or a blog post on TeslaMotors.com. So we want the media to take notice and the announcement is directed more to non-owners than current owners.

I won't recount the last 200 posts, but as others have stated, to suggest any method of increasing range does not eliminate range anxiety; it just pushes it farther out.

While the improved map/routing/charge options theory makes sense, I just don't see it as press announcement worthy.

I think it is a partnership. Expanded destination charging is kind of a yawn, but a partnership with another (international?) player might be the ticket. For example:

• Walmart, including international brands -- over 11,453 in 27 countries
• Best Western Hotels International -- over 4,000 hotels in 100 countries
• McDonald's -- 35,000 in 119 countries

Now, those examples might be a bit ambitious, but you get the idea. I'm hoping for a partnership announcement of some sort.

Final thoughts: This will undoubtedly fuel the FUD reports of a lack of demand, whatever the announcement is.

What about Costco?

 

[mgboyes]

How can you "micro sleep the motor for steady cruising" when you need 10-20 kW of power just to maintain cruising speed against the forces of friction and wind resistance? The laws of physics haven't taken a vacation, have they? Sleeping one out of two motors make sense for a dual motor configuration. You can still propel the car using the lesser of the two motors for more efficient cruising because it takes very little energy to maintain cruising speed compared with the amount of energy it takes to get to that speed. But if you "micro sleep" an individual motor, let's say 60 times per second, by definition you are outputting less power to the wheels, meaning you'll need to draw higher current from the battery in order to maintain that cruising speed. Or likening it to a CPU, if you want to do the same amount of work with fewer CPU cycles you need to increase the amount of work the CPU does per cycle.

^^ this.

Efficiency gains in the single motor drivetrain through firmware tweaks would be minimal. Microsleeping a CPU saves power because otherwise it would consume power while idle, like an ICE does. Electric motor doesn't work that way to start with so putting it to sleep doesn't help.

I can believe that they could be adjusting the safety margins on the batteries (i.e. making the 0% and 100% points both nearer to the true capacity limits of the cells) but that wouldn't be a big difference, and as many have said, increased range does not mean reduced range anxiety.

Clearly it is charger-aware satnav routing, ideally with both superchargers and a well-curated list of national public charge network partners integrated.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Elon said OTA software update.. so how can this be a partnership?.

Because his press conference may involve multiple announcements. If you're going to do a big press cattle call, as he has done, it's smart to include several announcements.

 

[Yggdrasill]

That's exactly correct. This software update will tell you how much range you'll have left when you reach your destination that you've entered and selected route. Therefore NO range anxiety.

It will factor in the following:

Elevation change
Wind
Traffic
Temp
Desired speed (e.g, 5 MPH over speed limit... Adjustable)

this update/annoucement won't be about Superchargers or higher efficiency "sleep mode" or more battery range unlocked.

Agree completely. The only thing that makes sense is an extremely accurate range estimator. I also think we *might* se an energy conservation mode, where the car does everything in it's power to reach the destination, including limiting acceleration, limiting heating/cooling, giving recommendations to the driver about driving slower and suggesting alternative lower-speed routes, if the car isn't comfortable with the range margin. And autorouting via superchargers and chargers you have used previously, possibly also some Tesla-certified chargers.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

LOL Colorado models will change the "Ionizer" to a "Vaporizer" wherein when the car detects Range Anxiety setting in it will blow marijuana smoke into the cabin...

I already have the vaporizer, I just need to know where to plug it in...

 

[MassModel3]

Exactly. Interested to hear what he has to say on Thursday, but wish he hadn't insulted 50,000 Model S owners on twitter by suggesting we have range anxiety!

It's entirely possible that the stated "range anxiety" is not intended to refer to existing owners, but rather to those who don't yet own because of their own fears. I think that taking this as an insult is reading too much into it.

The update that "Affects entire Model S fleet" is most likely (IMO) intended to be a step towards increasing sales. Whatever the update is, I think we owners are, for the most part, pretty happy with status quo. We own the Model S, we drive the Model S, and we know what to expect from the Model S. Minimal range anxiety after just driving it for a couple weeks and learning what it can and can't do. But enticing ICE owners to buy is the next big step since Model 3 is just around the corner.

 

[dirkhh]

I think I'll just wait until Thursday to see what the announcement is. Until then it doesn't affect me at all.

Wait, what's the fun in that? The whole point of him tweeting this today is so that there is wild speculation, crazy expectation and then a huge let down when it's announced...

 

[frekri]

How about, they are going to sell supercharges to anyone who want to install one. And they will make a payment system available in the car that connects trough the charge cable.

 

[100thMonkey]

I'm thinking it's one of two things, either Elon is grasping at straws trying to come up with something to turn around/prevent a nose dive in market sentiment or this is something much bigger than a software update. In the first scenario, it feels like just about anything that could be achieved with software, like integration with plugshare, risks falling short and causing this to go down as a huge overstatement, an overstatement in two ways. first off, I don't feel that range anxiety is really an issue on a day to day basis with the S, even at the 50% charge setting, so saying it's a big deal now feels like an overstatement, though some range anxiety still occurs from time to time. secondly, anyone with a smartphone already has the anxiety cure that integration with plugshare would offer... I just can't imagine any kind of software update making much of a difference over what we already have.

Cautious pessimism leads me to wonder if this is something much bigger than a software update. a truly ground breaking announcement, IMHO, that would virtually eliminate range anxiety needs to be something substantial. a big piece of range anxiety isn't just being worried that you are going to get stranded on the road, but that you are going to be faced with long waiting times to recharge, calling family to say you will be late, etc. Even Super Charging eats up time with transitions (getting off the highway, parking, plugging in, finding a place to go while charging, monitoring progress, etc). What would really be the cure? the real cure in my mind would be something that would virtually eliminate the need to stop on long distance trips, something on the order of magnitude of a consumable aluminum air battery that would fill the frunk, perhaps every S has the wiring for the addition of such a battery and only needs a software update to enable the feature. In any case, if Tesla announces a way to nearly double the range of the S, making it possible to drive all day long without thinking about stopping for a charge, that would put the final nail in the coffin of range anxiety in my book and truly be revolutionary. sadly I am prepared to be underwhelmed but would be pleasantly surprised if I'm wrong.

 

[Saghost]

How about, they are going to sell supercharges to anyone who want to install one. And they will make a payment system available in the car that connects trough the charge cable.

I don't know about the situation in Europe, but in the US virtually no one has the kinda of power they'd need for a Supercharger at home. Those are fed 480V Three phase power, while the house generally has 240V split-phase, with the typical-good house having 200 Amp service, giving 44 kW of possible power for the entire house (a third of what the SC might need.)

Pretty sure this one isn't happening.

 

[bollar]

You know a thread has run its course when the jokes are repeated:

It is my understanding that 'range anxiety' will be eliminated with the installation of dispensers for Xanax and Valium medication in all Model S's . . . in fact, all types of anxiety will be eliminated.

Model S will dispense Xanax at the precise moment you start to experience range anxiety. You still won't make it to your destination but the anxiety will be gone.

Very long extension cords, or lifetime supply of Xanax.

I think the over/under should be on how many variations of Xanax jokes we can run through by Thursday!

 

[mgemmell]

Agree completely. The only thing that makes sense is an extremely accurate range estimator. I also think we *might* se an energy conservation mode, where the car does everything in it's power to reach the destination, including limiting acceleration, limiting heating/cooling, giving recommendations to the driver about driving slower and suggesting alternative lower-speed routes, if the car isn't comfortable with the range margin. And autorouting via superchargers and chargers you have used previously, possibly also some Tesla-certified chargers.

This is the most reasonable guess I've heard so far. Don't know if it eliminates range anxiety though, but what else can it be OTA?

 

[MassModel3]

All Model S have navigation. All of them. Only the ones with tech package have turn-by-turn navigation on the speedo with offline maps that enable navigation if there is no network connection. That is the only difference. Non-tech can still use navigation, but it's limited to the 17" screen and you must have network connectivity.

Incorrect. All Model S have Maps. If you look in the manual in the car, you'll see that it says if navigation is enabled, the icon will say "Nav", otherwise it will say "Maps". Mine says Maps. I can bring up a map, but I can't navigate to it. Per the car instruction, once I have the destination in Maps, to navigate to it I hit the "Go" button. Nope, no Go button.

 

[pr0teu5]

Well we know it has to at least include something that's over the air. So I think the update will have two parts.

1) 150kW supercharging.

This would probably require some new firmware that would allow the battery modules to charge in a way that allows for this level of power without damaging them.


2) Home energy storage with supercharging.

This may seem a bit out of the blue, but I don't think so. Elon has said several times that they are working on a home energy storage system that would be unveiled pretty soon, and there's also all the buzz going on about the self plugging "solid metal" snake charger. I'd say that these are both part of the same thing, a home storage/charging system where the DC energy storage allows for much faster charging in the home.

 

[Todd Burch]

How can you "micro sleep the motor for steady cruising" when you need 10-20 kW of power just to maintain cruising speed against the forces of friction and wind resistance?

By applying more torque (where AC induction motors are more efficient) for a shorter period of time. By definition AC induction motors require a current to pass through the stator to induce a magnetic field that the rotor uses to generate torque. If you generate more torque over a shorter period of time, you can yield the same average power output but with the current passing through the stator for a shorter period of time. Since current running through a wire is essentially equivalent to a lightbulb (albeit with much lower resistance), running any amount of current through a wire uses energy. Therefore, running current through the stator for shorter time periods could yield energy savings. It could also yield savings by reducing cooling energy loads. (All of this is possible, but I'm not sure if the EE details work out).

I think I was the first to mention this in this thread--I think it would be cool if they did this (I don't know enough of the EE specifics to know if it's feasible since I'm a mechanical engineer by trade), but I doubt it's Elon's announcement. I suspect the savings by pulsing the motor would be measurable, but probably not more than about 5%.

But if you "micro sleep" an individual motor, let's say 60 times per second, by definition you are outputting less power to the wheels

Not if during the "awake" periods you're putting out higher torque.

- - - Updated - - -

Efficiency gains in the single motor drivetrain through firmware tweaks would be minimal. Microsleeping a CPU saves power because otherwise it would consume power while idle, like an ICE does. Electric motor doesn't work that way to start with so putting it to sleep doesn't help.

AC Induction motors are more efficient when generating higher torque, so there are theoretically some gains to be had there. I do, however, agree with your statement that sleeping the motor would not yield substantial improvements. But if used for coasting or at shorter time periods during cruising, I bet the improvements would be noticable on the ol' Wh/mi gauge. I'm guessing up to a 5% improvement could be had.

Having said all that, it seems the Supercharger-integrated navigation (including, hopefully the ability to check Supercharger operational status) is the most likely announcement.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Incorrect. All Model S have Maps. If you look in the manual in the car, you'll see that it says if navigation is enabled, the icon will say "Nav", otherwise it will say "Maps". Mine says Maps. I can bring up a map, but I can't navigate to it. Per the car instruction, once I have the destination in Maps, to navigate to it I hit the "Go" button. Nope, no Go button.

Thanks for clarifying the difference between non-tech maps and tech package navigation. I must have been confused by the two.