If these last two suggestions have any merit, then why not use the batteries of an actual Model S as mini-SuperCharger? I dubbed this 'buddy loading' some time ago. Also known as vehicle-to-vehicle or V2V. The BYOD EV has this feature.
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Elon "About to end range anxiety"
- Thread starter Lump
- Start date
That would fit with many of Elon's previous announcements. I would expect to be disappointed.
I've been debating about this in my head. If Tesla does model the car's expected performance and compare it with the actual results, it opens up a bunch of interesting possibilities. One thing they could then do that no one else can is use the cars to build a real-time Wh-mile/mph map for the country - I think I'd set it up so anytime the car's performance differed from the expected by a significant amount that wasn't drafting and didn't last the entire trip, the car would report back it's current location and degree/type of variance. This could give them real world results for precipitation and wind speeds, fed directly from other cars in the places you're going.
On the other hand, right now they only have ~70k cars out there, maybe half? in the US. There are a lot of places they'll have to be making predictions on without the real time data, and some places the efficiency can change a lot in the few hours it might take you to drive there. So while Tesla is uniquely suited to do this, I'm not certain if it is worth the effort.
Walter
billarnett
Member
My guess is some sort of partnership for charging in lots more locations. That would fit with "the entire fleet" and the need for a press conference. Maybe HPWCs in the immediate future and Superchargers later (since HPWCs are a lot cheaper and easier to install). Who would be the partner? One of the oil giants would make sense; there might be one that figures that catering to the EV community will garner some PR points if nothing else; if Tesla pays for the installation then it's a free lunch for the partner. The OTA update aspect could just be some indication of which nearby charging points are currently unoccupied.
Well, we know that this is something Tesla has done some interesting work on in the past - shaping the sine-wave. I'm pretty sure I read some threads here a while back about not using a conventional sine, but driving the voltage higher at the start. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Tesla continued to innovate in this direction, and it might be possible to improve performance with the existing hardware (in fact, it's one of several places they might be finding the extra performance they've promised for the P85D in the future.)
However, I'll be very surprised if that's a significant part of Thursday's announcement. Even if they got 100% conversion of energy with no losses, it'd only extend the range by ~25% in the best case. That's a great thing, and certainly useful - but it won't eliminate range anxiety, it just shifts the anxiety a little further away.
AFAICT, the only way to eliminate it is either to make near perfect predictions of range (and hopefully walk you through where to charge,) or to make charging so fast and so ubiquitous that people don't care if they need to charge. The first is something Tesla has the data for and can create OTA, the second is not.
Walter
Then how does the 60 kW SpC limit several of our members are reporting factor into it? The timing is too coincidental. Less than a day after the OP of that thread confirms that Tesla is indeed throttling intentionally (although the reasons remain unclear), Elon takes to Twitter to announce a press conference? I believe the two events are fundamentally tied and the 60 kW limit will become clear after the announcement. Thus, it is clear to me there is more to it than a simple Nav update.
I don't believe it was "confirmed"
Life is full of "coincidences" that mean nothing.
We will find out on Thursday morning.
I can see it now "We are ending range anxiety and replacing it with range TERROR! Now our superchargers are half as fast, whiners!"
Maybe a reduction in the supercharger taper, so it takes longer to taper from 120kWh to 60kWh, at which point it holds there until 95% SoC? And the 60kWh charge issue recently was Tesla's way of seeing how a sustained 60kWh performs in a new Supercharger software update? Just spitballing. A quicker charge time in many people's minds would reduce range anxiety, since that's usually the term people use to compare to the quicker refilling at gas stations (and Elon already said Battery swap was not what he meant for this announcement).
More than likely a different form factor would be more manageable than using a a Model S battery. Regardless, I can't picture Tesla endorsing a service truck with a big ICE generator powering any sort of DC Fast Charger. A high capacity battery has more of the Tesla touch and would probably be a lot more efficient.
Larry
gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
"Watch what happens when we replaced the 120kW chargers with 60kW..."
Tesla: Because You Don't Want The Other Guys' Idea Of Fast Charging.
Maybe it's not actually limited but rather split between two plugs , one on the left side by the Left brake light and one on the right by the right brake light. When backing up to the stall now you back up in the middle taking up two parking spots and you plug into both Superchargers simultaneously and get 60kW+60kW = 120kW charge rate. You all have just been doing it wrong.
Of course ending range anxiety isn't really possible since it´s a very relative term.
But let´s say they have come up with something to improve the range of the car.
It´s a know fact the all electric motors operate more efficiently under heavy loads. Now I´m not an expert at the engine Tesla uses but speaking from what I know, at cruise you are using about 30 hp, thats around 22.4 kW.
View attachment 74928
View attachment 74929
Now pay attention, this does not directly reflect the efficiency for the Tesla motor. Just to clear that up.
Looking at couple of graphs for VFD induction motors, shows that when cruising at around 60-65 mpH the efficiency isn't really all that good. Now the problem is basically that the engine load is simply too low. A gearbox via OTA is impossible to do within current laws of physics.
They may have figured out a way to run the engine at full power for extremely short time intervals. In my mind, this would make for an extremely unpleasant and "jerky" power delivery, but like I said, i'm not an expert at these things.
Or it could be something boring like a new navigator thingy.
That's right. It's a known fact and has been known for years, so Tesla has been doing this from day one already because they'd have been stupid to leave significant range sitting on the table.
The wiring inside the car from the charge port to the battery junction box is just not a thick enough gauge to safely support much more, if any, power for supercharging.
135kW would be close to 400A at times... and I believe the charge port wire is #2 or #1 AWG. The 330A we see currently is already pushing it, IMO. The only way they get away with the existing setup is that it is for a short time.
135kW would be close to 400A at times... and I believe the charge port wire is #2 or #1 AWG. The 330A we see currently is already pushing it, IMO. The only way they get away with the existing setup is that it is for a short time.
SW2Fiddler
We Are Cognitive Dissidents
- Announcement: big cooperative tie-in with largest CHAdeMO networks (EVgo, Blink, other, other) possibly including free charges for a year (like EVgo did for LEAFs)
- Instant expansion of DC fast-charge network into un-SC territories
- Tesla/CHAdeMO adapters are supplied by TM to equip all these stations, the set-asides explain the delays in for-sale adapters
- OTA 6.2 Update: CHAdeMO charging enabled on all Models S, whether Supercharge-enabled or not
- Affects entire fleet, see?
- CHAdeMO "super-ish-chargers" added to in-car Nav Map
- AC three-phase induction motor gets tweaks in the duty cycle/waveform of each "phase" unlocking some extra efficiency
- Testing of the efficacy and logistical impact of 60kW charging has been quietly underway at a Supercharger near you
- You see what I did there.
- You see what I did there.
Go home now, it's St. Patrick's Day. See ya Thursday.
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Yeah, maybe. My point was that it's gonna be more than just some simple Nav update.
Fair point. But they certainly didn't gain traction until a few days ago. If there is no relation or relevance to the press conference then I'll come back and eat my words
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