Elon "About to end range anxiety"

[O-G]

Is there an online site for the press release on Thursday?

 

[efusco]

Apologies if previously suggested...
In addition to in vehicle NAV improvements, there may also be off line trip pre-planning offered via web browser and or app. This "plan" could then be tweaked to assure adequate range, then be uploaded to the car as a preprogrammed route.

 

[tga]

Not cynical at all...realistic. But do the Teamsters care if their members are actually driving? As long as there is a union member getting paid union rates riding in the cab "supervising", it shouldn't matter if the computer or union member is driving (well, until the computer's join the union...that would be interesting!).

Ha! Brilliant!

 

[CyberDutchie]

Not sure if this has been suggested yet (75 pages and counting!) but here is an idea that might end range anxiety, as long as there are enough Tesla's on the road. It's a form of mobile charging that assumes each Tesla on the road has the ability to function as a quick-charge station (a cable to connect between two charging ports would be required). The OTA update would add a Waze like feature to the navigation app where you can see all Tesla's on the road in your proximity, and you'd be able to communicate with other owners. Let's say you have 20 miles left but your destination is still 25 miles away (range anxiety!). You could send an alert to other Tesla drivers around you that you are in dire need for 10 more miles charge. Someone nearby (the Good Samaritan) could notice your request and offer to give you 10 miles charge. Once the offer is accepted, the nav software would automatically calculate a route in both cars to a safe meet-up point. The giver would be rewarded with a star or other form of reputation in the app, and perhaps offered a coffee by the one in need while waiting for the transfer of the 10 miles to complete. I know most Tesla owners would be happy to help out someone in need, some already offer their home chargers to fellow Tesla owners in need (e.g. through plug share). Or is this too far fetched?

 

[Fanatic]

Has anybody seen this article?
How Will Tesla Motors Boost Its Range? - Stocks to Watch - Barrons.com

Maybe the software will allow boost the performance of superchargers (maybe SC are already upgraded) and boost range by improving investor algorithm?

Addressing range anxiety?
Yes, if you can charge in 5min and drive 400miles!
Prepare to be let down.

I love EM but don't get how he will pull this off really!

 

[MikeBur]

Last time, Elon said he would "unveil the D, and something else". Something else was autopilot, but there was an awful lot of wild speculation beforehand.

Is he shooting for less speculation by not saying what will happen other than an OTA firmware release? Naw, he's not getting less speculation, and I think he likes it. Hmm.

In any event, Tesla has said for a long time that better trip estimation was coming, and knowing exactly how far your battery will get you is, of course, key to ending range anxiety. (Knowing where to charge up is really the only other piece you need). While the press conference seems reasonably likely to show something additional despite the lack of announcement, I do think there will be an enhancement to the navigation software, and I like Breser's idea that they will replace the in-car hardware navigation with something of their own making. That could explain why we went over 2 years without map updates; perhaps Tesla kept thinking they were close to releasing their own solution. The last firmware release was a really useful step forward, although of course there is far more they could do - multiple stop planning, alternate routes and better weather (especially wind) accounting being a few things I'd really like to see.

What if the map pre-calculated everywhere your car could get based on pack size and Superchargers, and shaded everything you could reach in red? (Something several steps above the 250-mile circles around Supercharger sites - calculated using speed limits, elevation, weather reports, etc). For double-bonus speculation, what if the entire rest of the continent you are on (or something close to that, depending on the continent) was shaded in gray, along with big gray dots at service centers (that are within the red zone) to show where you can get an enormous alumunium-air pack swapped in for a trip? (For a significant fee, of course).

I doubt that's likely (at least the a-a pack). But it would be pretty cool, and would set an awful lot of fears to rest. Of course, having made plenty of long Tesla trips, I already don't have any range anxiety, so I'm less looking for a cool feature for me and more hoping the announcement will help the masses take BEVs more seriously. As has been pointed out, an announcement like this isn't really targeting us owners.

Wow... 75 page long thread... Just wow.

i like this idea as it brings the range estimator to the masses without need for setting the nav destination. This could be enabled for all cars. This may be as simple as something like Nissan's (image courtesy of Nissanusa.com):

I'd love to see this extended to a "radar chart" that is a modeled combination of data from weather, topography, current vehicle telemetry (incl. energy vs road / wind resistance) and other-tesla-sourced (and anonymised) crowd-sourced telemetry. How could you portray this combination simply? Maybe something akin to:

Note blue outline shows more range to south, eg due to wind/inclement weather to north and/or terrain topography.
Excuse the crudely drawn diagram, though in this case I'd suggest removing standard white concentric circles and have "contours" emanating from centre (safe) out to the blue outer limit of predicted range.

Combine this with the outstanding, promised, autopilot and a partnership with SAE combo charger rollout with another manufacturer, and this would be compelling for the masses.

Beyond this, I like some of the additional thinking and truly hope for some additional "magic" to extend range of my p85d, as currently this is way below my expectations. A 200 mile trip should be easily achievable though in the rain at 4am, at 60-65mph using tacc, it just is not.

I like the idea of higher output to motor(s) with duty cycling, and for dual-motor picking the best motor based on efficiency at current speed. I do wonder if there's some ability to switch charge /regen, or even various coils, to gain some regen during "idle" cycles - though this is definitely witchcraft.

I love the concept of faster dc charging with future possibility of home dc bidirectional battery storage, ie. Battery storage for generated electricity and capability to supplement with car battery.

anywho, onward to 100+ pages

 

[All Your Bases]

Remember there should be 3 settings in the P85D - Normal, Sport and Insane ?

I think the missing "Normal" will be introduced, and the rest of the fleet will get Normal/Sport. + some extra range in Normal setting.

As an added bonus, - now that the press is present, - the X ordering site will be introduced with pricing and options ...

 

[PaulusdB]

Not sure if this has been suggested yet (75 pages and counting!) but here is an idea that might end range anxiety, as long as there are enough Tesla's on the road. It's a form of mobile charging that assumes each Tesla on the road has the ability to function as a quick-charge station (a cable to connect between two charging ports would be required). The OTA update would add a Waze like feature to the navigation app where you can see all Tesla's on the road in your proximity, and you'd be able to communicate with other owners. Let's say you have 20 miles left but your destination is still 25 miles away (range anxiety!). You could send an alert to other Tesla drivers around you that you are in dire need for 10 more miles charge. Someone nearby (the Good Samaritan) could notice your request and offer to give you 10 miles charge. Once the offer is accepted, the nav software would automatically calculate a route in both cars to a safe meet-up point. The giver would be rewarded with a star or other form of reputation in the app, and perhaps offered a coffee by the one in need while waiting for the transfer of the 10 miles to complete. I know most Tesla owners would be happy to help out someone in need, some already offer their home chargers to fellow Tesla owners in need (e.g. through plug share). Or is this too far fetched?

I suggested this before, calling it 'buddy loading'. Others call this vehicle-to-vehicle or V2V charging. Combined with 'Waze friends'-like functionality, this would certainly relieve range anxiety.

 

[Coiled]

In addition to in vehicle NAV improvements, there may also be off line trip pre-planning offered via web browser and or app. This "plan" could then be tweaked to assure adequate range, then be uploaded to the car as a preprogrammed route.

This would be fantastic. Tesla, please do this.

 

[billarnett]

... I do wonder if there's some ability to switch charge /regen, or even various coils, to gain some regen during "idle" cycles - though this is definitely witchcraft...

Sounds like perpetual motion to me

 

[Hkpkfan]

I am a big fan of Four Seasons Resorts but putting HPWCs in their resorts, many of which are in places like Bali, Phuket or Hawaii is not going to move the needle on range anxiety.

I like the line of thinking though, for example if they did something with starwood hotels, that's 9 different chains: Sheraton, Westin, W etc. There's 700+ in North America alone. That would be an amazing partnership.

 

[lphe]

I wonder what the efficiency of the inverter/electric motor for the Tesla currently is?

I have a Fusion Energi and can measure the power drawn from the battery by the inverter/electric motor and the power output of the electric motor via the OBD 2 connector. The efficiency varies, but is generally around 72% at 55 mph. During moderate acceleration, efficiency goes up to around 85%. At lower speeds, efficiency drops. If they find a way to dramatically increase that efficiency, at least in my car, a very optimistic estimate of the increase in range (100% efficiency) is that range is increased by a factor of 1/.7 = 40%.

 

[porc]

I very much doubt that Thursday's announcement will have anything to do with expanded charging locations, battery swaps, metal-air packs, and other physical items. Elon is a bluntly straightforward person, so I take his statement at face value that this will be about a software update and nothing more.

Anxiety is at its core a product of uncertainty. Navigation software that takes into account changes in elevation, weather, temperature, traffic, driving style, and other variables and answers the question of: "will I be able to drive to X, Y, and Z locations without running out of charge" is the simplest way to eliminate uncertainty. I'm sure that this kind of software solution would also be able to suggest a route incorporating Supercharger stops if the driver can't make it to their ultimate destination on the current battery charge level.

No range anxiety is not a product of uncertainty and it wont be solved by a slick navigation system. These statements are basically ignoring the elephant in the room: Range anxiety is a product of lack of range and slow recharging times. They are a product of knowing that a trip that takes gasoline cars 5 hours, will take electric cars 8 hours.

Sometimes I have the feeling that people are trying to kid themselves, by ignoring the huge hurdles electric cars still face.

Also its not about educating the public about electric cars. They know what electric cars are about, and until Musk can increase the range drastically and improve charging times, Tesla will stay a niche producer.

Thus if Thursdays announcement is about a navigation system, his statement will sound quite silly. Almost as silly as he thinks hydrogen cars are silly .

 

[Saghost]

I wonder what the efficiency of the inverter/electric motor for the Tesla currently is?

I have a Fusion Energi and can measure the power drawn from the battery by the inverter/electric motor and the power output of the electric motor via the OBD 2 connector. The efficiency varies, but is generally around 72% at 55 mph. During moderate acceleration, efficiency goes up to around 85%. At lower speeds, efficiency drops. If they find a way to dramatically increase that efficiency, at least in my car, a very optimistic estimate of the increase in range (100% efficiency) is that range is increased by a factor of 1/.7 = 40%.

Are you sure? What I can measure in my Volt is the power out of the battery and the power IN to the drive inverter - so the difference is some wiring losses and whatever else is going on in the car (HVAC, computer overhead, DC-DC converter, etc.)

The power output of the inverter would be variable frequency AC three phase hooked directly to the drive motor - I've never seen a car provide input on that.

For reference, GM says the inverter/motor/geartrain is about 85% efficient through most of the operating range if I remember the SAE papers correctly.
Walter

 

[lphe]

Are you sure? What I can measure in my Volt is the power out of the battery and the power IN to the drive inverter - so the difference is some wiring losses and whatever else is going on in the car (HVAC, computer overhead, DC-DC converter, etc.)

The power output of the inverter would be variable frequency AC three phase hooked directly to the drive motor - I've never seen a car provide input on that.

For reference, GM says the inverter/motor/geartrain is about 85% efficient through most of the operating range if I remember the SAE papers correctly.
Walter

I measure the current/amps from the battery that is fed to the inverter. I also measure the torque/rpms of the motor. I'm not sure how accurate the measurements are from the motor. The ratio of the power output of the motor to the power input to the inverter is around 72% at highway speeds. If efficiency really is 85% or more, then there in not much room for improvement in range.

 

[teddyg]

Wow surprised you guys haven't figured this out yet!
It is clear that the giant obelisks at each supercharging station are in fact massive Tesla coils which will transmit electricity wirelessly to any Model S within a 50 mile range. Wireless charging is inefficient so it will only transmit just enough energy for the car to get to the supercharging station in limp mode (max 50 mph) where you can then plug in.
Nicola Tesla was sending energy wirelessly over a distance of 25 miles back in 1899 in Colorado. His dream was to send power around the world without wires. 115+ years later Elon's team at Tesla has improved on the original design.
You will have to pay a fee of course to enable your Model S to access the encrypted frequency of the wireless energy being transmitted from all supercharging stations. It's the "worry free wireless package" for only $49/month!

Haha...seriously though I have no idea what Elon is up to!

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

This would be fantastic. Tesla, please do this.

I think it makes sense, although one challenge is car-specific issues like pack version and degradation. To do offline (well online, but not in your car) calculation Tesla would need to know how much capacity your car has and how fast you can charge at Superchargers. So maybe you look up your car by VIN or name* do the calculation and upload it to the car, which is sleeping but always connected*, which will add it to its nav/ calendar*.

* Naming your car, always connected option, calendar items. Who cares about those?

 

[jgs]

Okay, I really hadn't intended to contribute to this thread but I can't resist. I haven't reviewed the whole thread, but when I've dipped in I haven't seen this exact suggestion –

Navigation system improvements (I think that's the most popular prediction) PLUS integration of TACC or Autopilot. That is, the navigation system produces a course guaranteed to get you to your next charging point, and TACC/Autopilot guarantees to drive within the power consumption envelope necessary to meet that contract.

To me, the addition of that second part would be a significant value-add versus just the navigation system offering me a course, The more so if it were updated in real-time as you would expect it ought to be. Technologically, adding the TACC/Autopilot integration doesn't seem like a big deal; in terms of the user experience it does.

 

[Saghost]

I measure the current/amps from the battery that is fed to the inverter. I also measure the torque/rpms of the motor. I'm not sure how accurate the measurements are from the motor. The ratio of the power output of the motor to the power input to the inverter is around 72% at highway speeds. If efficiency really is 85% or more, then there in not much room for improvement in range.

Keep in mind, we're taking about apples and oranges here. I believe the overall efficiency of the Volt is in the neighborhood GM announced. I would expect the Energi to be somewhere close given the MPGe numbers - but I have no data on the Energi at all.
Walter

- - - Updated - - -

Okay, I really hadn't intended to contribute to this thread but I can't resist. I haven't reviewed the whole thread, but when I've dipped in I haven't seen this exact suggestion –

Navigation system improvements (I think that's the most popular prediction) PLUS integration of TACC or Autopilot. That is, the navigation system produces a course guaranteed to get you to your next charging point, and TACC/Autopilot guarantees to drive within the power consumption envelope necessary to meet that contract.

To me, the addition of that second part would be a significant value-add versus just the navigation system offering me a course, The more so if it were updated in real-time as you would expect it ought to be. Technologically, adding the TACC/Autopilot integration doesn't seem like a big deal; in terms of the user experience it does.

Interesting. Tesla could then optimize for total trip time, taking charge rates at different stops and different states of charge into account.

Ideally, you could program or be offered longer stops for meals, with choices of which SC you'd take them at and lists of restaurant choices near each - even look through the menus ahead of time as you lay out the trip.

It's a lot more planning than I usually do for the typical trip, but if the car made it easy, and included all the potential choices, I think I could get used to it.

Adding target efficiency mode programming to TACC certainly has some fascinating possibilities.
Walter

 

[3PHASE]

LEAF owners would be thrilled with this idea

Announcement: big cooperative tie-in with largest CHAdeMO networks (EVgo, Blink, other, other) possibly including free charges for a year (like EVgo did for LEAFs)

• Instant expansion of DC fast-charge network into un-SC territories
• Tesla/CHAdeMO adapters are supplied by TM to equip all these stations, the set-asides explain the delays in for-sale adapters

Oh, I'm sure LEAF owners would be thrilled with this idea. :scared: