Elon Confirms S & X Are Chopped Liver

[AdamMacDon]

The S is lacking a huge amount of features compared with its competitors from Germany. Back in 2014 or even 2017 I was willing to accept those lack of features because Tesla had some other features like the giant nav screen, streaming music, phone app and such. Today that's a much harder sell to make as the Germans have caught up in that regard. Tesla has also shot themselves in the foot by getting rid of some of the things that used to make the cars unique, like the bowling alley and the big frunk.

I'm going to be replacing one of our Ss in a year or two and if its the same interior then as it is now, it won't be with another Tesla. I want a better HVAC system, better sound and vibration dampening, auto wipers that actually work, real leather seats that are ventilated, and an interior that looks like it belongs in a $90k car.

Thank god someone said it. Come on guys, I love Tesla and own one myself, but the Model S can't compete with the Model 3 interior, nevermind an E-class or BMW 5/7 Series. I could buy an E63s for the money of a Model S and have massage seats, with ventilation, doors with storage pockets in them, and seats that I can stand to sit in for more than an hour without discomfort.

 

[AdamMacDon]

Really? Many people I know prefer the interior of S and X, in particular the 2 screens and it being embedded in the dash versus bolted on.

Two screens can NOT be your only advantage, and honestly, as Elon said, I don't really mind having no gauge cluster in front of me, and have grown to prefer the single screen look. But the seats, door panels, sound deadning all seem better in the M3, even with it's hasty production speeds.

 

[tomas]

Ok so this thread has officially become the S haters club. Go buy something else then!!!

 

[re04586]

Two screens can NOT be your only advantage,

I did say "in particular".

I don't really mind having no gauge cluster in front of me, and have grown to prefer the single screen look.

Fine, and that's a individual preference thing, but I can't get on board with your statement that "no way any person" could prefer the S/X interior.

But the seats, door panels, sound deadning all seem better in the M3

I have only been in a M3 once, but I didn't feel like the seats, door panels, or sound deadening was better than my MX. Maybe I need to have another look.

 

[AdamMacDon]

Ok so this thread has officially become the S haters club. Go buy something else then!!!

Wanting one of our favorite car brands to improve equals hating? I'm sorry, I don't buy the argument. I did buy something else, a Model 3, and Tesla lost over 50k on a sale because of that. I want to see them improve, so when I'm car shopping again I can justify spending over $100k on a car and avoid, as Rich Rebuilds put it "becoming jealous of a $40,000 Acura interior". Why does everyone have to paint that as hating and get all defensive. The Model S/X need to improve to be competitive, this is a fact. I hope for Tesla's sake they can do it soon.

 

[AdamMacDon]

I have only been in a M3 once, but I didn't feel like the seats, door panels, or sound deadening was better than my MX. Maybe I need to have another look.

I worked for Mercedes Benz, Porsche, BMW, and other VW auto group companies. I've also driven a ton of S's and a few X's in that time as trade in's, plus I test drove an MS P100D when I was shopping for my Tesla. Maybe I'm more picky than other's when it comes to car interiors, but in my humble opinion from years in the industry, pricing your FLAGSHIP cars at over double the entry level ones, then removing almost all customization options and finishing it off by not updating the interior significantly in almost 10 years, you're asking for trouble. Most luxury car buyers are picky too, and if we want to convert people from German luxury sedans, we need to push Tesla into improving.

 

[tomas]

Wanting one of our favorite car brands to improve equals hating? I'm sorry, I don't buy the argument. I did buy something else, a Model 3, and Tesla lost over 50k on a sale because of that. I want to see them improve, so when I'm car shopping again I can justify spending over $100k on a car and avoid, as Rich Rebuilds put it "becoming jealous of a $40,000 Acura interior". Why does everyone have to paint that as hating and get all defensive. The Model S/X need to improve to be competitive, this is a fact. I hope for Tesla's sake they can do it soon.

Up until the intro of the 3, the S/X was far more than competitive. If you look at US sales charts, model S beat MB S and BMW 7 combined in first half of 2017. Somebody must have chosen it, Spartan interior and all. Tesla has always chosen to compete on a different set of features. Their success doesn’t lie.

Now, their future lies in getting to volume. Update S/X or get pickup to market 9 months earlier? Which is larger market? I disagree with those who think they can do both. Management attention and deployment of talent is everything. Not to mention where to put capital.

If you love the S and want a completely new version, sorry... you’ll have to make do with incremental improvement or wait a while. No amount of postings will change that.

 

[wooter]

I'm going to be replacing one of our Ss in a year or two and if its the same interior then as it is now, it won't be with another Tesla. I want a better HVAC system, better sound and vibration dampening, auto wipers that actually work, real leather seats that are ventilated, and an interior that looks like it belongs in a $90k car.

After 2 years in my Model X, I would be hilariously stupid to go back to an ICE with COMAND, iDrive or what you have in Audi. Not to mention having to drive again, or spending 5' in blistering heat/freezing cold on hot/cold leather seats because you can't remotely turn the HVAC on a few minutes before you leave.

I mean, I understand the frustration, but the excuses are just hilarious. I mean, if you really want to satisfy your plastic button fetish again, please do, but I can't think of any other reaction except than laughter to these comments.

Yeah, a Model S or X has less pearls sticked on it than an Audi A6 or 5 series, but I am amazed by the fact that nobody realises Elon is trying to avoid the Osborne effect - Wikipedia on Model S and X. It's like the iPhone: the best moment to buy the best Tesla is now.

 

[wooter]

I worked for Mercedes Benz, Porsche, BMW, and other VW auto group companies. I've also driven a ton of S's and a few X's in that time as trade in's, plus I test drove an MS P100D when I was shopping for my Tesla. Maybe I'm more picky than other's when it comes to car interiors, but in my humble opinion from years in the industry, pricing your FLAGSHIP cars at over double the entry level ones, then removing almost all customization options and finishing it off by not updating the interior significantly in almost 10 years, you're asking for trouble. Most luxury car buyers are picky too, and if we want to convert people from German luxury sedans, we need to push Tesla into improving.

Model S is 7 years old, the interior got a large refresh with new seats about 3 years ago, and since then multiple color changes have been made available. If I add the 2, I can count to 10 but that's not how this works.

If you really feel hurt by all this, maybe you should go shopping at European motorcycle brands; BMW offers 2 colours of exterior and 1 color of seat on their halo motorcycles.

 

[seaweed]

I recently bought a 2019 Audi Q5 Prestige for hauling my kayaks on trips. The Audi has some features that I would like on my S but it cannot compare in most categories. The simplicity of the Tesla in operation and setup is far superior to the Audi's complex set of menus, buttons and switches. The Audi lane keeping is rudimentary compared to the S. Although Audi seats are ventilated they cannot compare in comfort to the S. Granted the Q5 is not top of the line, it does demonstrate how far behind the Germans are to matching the Tesla S.

 

[byeLT4]

If you love the S and want a completely new version, sorry... you’ll have to make do with incremental improvement or wait a while.

Herein lies the problem, but yeah, let's call it 'communications'.........

 

[AdamMacDon]

Up until the intro of the 3, the S/X was far more than competitive. If you look at US sales charts, model S beat MB S and BMW 7 combined in first half of 2017. Somebody must have chosen it, Spartan interior and all. Tesla has always chosen to compete on a different set of features. Their success doesn’t lie.

Now, their future lies in getting to volume. Update S/X or get pickup to market 9 months earlier? Which is larger market? I disagree with those who think they can do both. Management attention and deployment of talent is everything. Not to mention where to put capital.

If you love the S and want a completely new version, sorry... you’ll have to make do with incremental improvement or wait a while. No amount of postings will change that.

It's not competitive because of the interior, which is maybe acceptable in a Crown Victoria from 2007. It only beat those brands because the propulsion method was so much superior. You're beyond naive if you think ICE manufacturers won't switch over to electric sooner or later. That is Elon's goal after all. When they do, the Model S and X will be nearly worthless brands. Your whole attitude with the "If you love the S and want a completely new version, sorry... you’ll have to make do with incremental improvement or wait a while." line is exactly what's wrong with the Tesla community as a whole. So short sighted it's amazing. But sure, dismiss me as a hater and move on with your life

 

[tomas]

It's not competitive because of the interior, which is maybe acceptable in a Crown Victoria from 2007. It only beat those brands because the propulsion method was so much superior. You're beyond naive if you think ICE manufacturers won't switch over to electric sooner or later. That is Elon's goal after all. When they do, the Model S and X will be nearly worthless brands. Your whole attitude with the "If you love the S and want a completely new version, sorry... you’ll have to make do with incremental improvement or wait a while." line is exactly what's wrong with the Tesla community as a whole. So short sighted it's amazing. But sure, dismiss me as a hater and move on with your life

You should clearly buy something else. You should also stay away from market analysis, math, or management.

 

[pete8314]

... Elon is trying to avoid the Osborne effect - Wikipedia on Model S and X. It's like the iPhone: the best moment to buy the best Tesla is now.

I don't think it's remotely like an iPhone. We all know there's a new iPhone every September. Apple selectively leaks information. The best time to buy an iPhone is right now if you want a great deal from one of the carriers, or in a couple of months if you want the latest and greatest. Every manufacturer has to deal with the Osborne effect, and maybe that's exactly what's happening now with S & X- the spec has been bumped up, and the price down. That's great if there's a full refresh coming, but if there is, Elon has been repeatedly lying about it. Having no comment is one thing, but he's been clear there's no major refresh in the works.

 

[AdamMacDon]

You should clearly buy something else. You should also stay away from market analysis, math, or management.

You're cute man, look how mad you get when someone suggests this company needs to improve things. Tesla fanboys man, haha!

 

[john85775]

The iPhone analogy has been used to death, but here’s my interpretation:

The S/X is Tesla’s Blackberry, the Model 3 is its iPhone.

S/X is like the Arnold Schwarzenegger Terminator, M3 is T2.

It’s painful for me to admit it as an invested X owner, but I take Elon at his word and follow the company’s actions. This is.... it... for the foreseeable future.

It’s actually already happening folks:

• No V3 charging.
• Firmware updates rolling out behind the Mode 3 curve.
• Interior and exterior stuck in the mud.
• Down to one (ONE!) production line.
• Circling the drain on pricing and residual value.
• Feature de-contenting (sunroof, seat ventilation, MX center console, etc - all gone)
• Cant even be bothered to update the key fob system much less address the yellowing screens

Raven and suspension are nothing more than Elon peeing on our collective legs and communicating that it’s raining.

 

[EVDRVN]

Did your source give a timeline for when this will be released? Will this be the rumoured refresh or an all new model?

Take it with a grain of salt but the person I heard it from would have accurate and reliable info because of their "unique" relation. This was about a year ago and It would not surprise me if there was a ground up redesign of the S to match that of the 3 in terms of manufacturing. In the case there will be I can tell you I have already sat in the new seats and they are very noice as they were intended for the 3 but pulled to not marginalize S sales and I know this to be a fact first hand. The 3 interior was far nicer in the beginning, too nice in fact and so it was scaled back and not because of cost but perception of lost S sales which at that time was a big deal. I really wish I had those seats! A completely new S announcement would all but stop the sales of the present car unless it was on fire sale. The only major thing carried over from the old car would be the motors. The goal is to be a bigger and nicer 3 with the same tech, business, and manufacture goals. Putting time into a S refresh on the same platform is not even a good stop gap measure presently.

 

[jdw]

Posted this over in the S forum, but seems applicable here ...

===

Having recently updated to a Performance Raven from a 2015 85D, I was amazed at how much the car had improved over the past four years. After reading a number of posts where the general theme was "the S is dead if they don't upgrade it", I thought about what they actually had changed since my last car.

By upgrading, I lost:

Pano Roof
Leather Seats
FUSC

But ... gained quite a long list of changes or improvements from 2015:

Facelift Front End
Frunk & Hood Changes
Body Colored Rocker Panels
New Diffuser
3-Way LED Headlights
New Dashboard & Defrost Vents
Factory Tinted Windows
Glass Roof
Warmer Interior LED Lighting
Better Windshield (less warping)
Darker Dash & MCU Trim
New Center Console
New Front & Rear Seats
Lumbar & Headrest Adjustments
New Folding Side Mirror Mounts
Rear USB Ports & Cupholders
New Parcel Shelf
Vegan Interior
BioDefense Mode
High Resolution Rear Camera
High Resolution MCU Screen
High Resolution Binnacle Screen
AutoPilot Cameras
AP HW 3
MCU 2
Navigation on Auto Pilot
100kWh Battery
48A Charger
200kW Super Charging
600km Range
170wH/km Efficiency
TeslaCam
Sentry
New Charge Port
PMSR Front Motor
Silicon Carbide Inverters
Adaptive Suspension
*Much* quieter ride (Air & Road Noise)
New Suspension Geometry & Steering Rack
Ceramic Wheel Bearings
Standard Pilot Sport 4 Tires
Arcade Games

And, the Performance L was only about $5K more than the 85D in 2015.

The main things that didn't change in some way was the body (behind the nose, above the rocker panels and in front of the diffuser anyway), the doors (no pockets) and the air vents.

Just sayin' ...

 

[CarveDeeper]

I had a BMW 850 euro-spec for about 10 years...I loved it despite all its flaws.
I assumed a lease on a SP90D for a year (long test drive!) and decided a M3LR would work for me. I LOVED the S. I’m very tempted now to just buy a low mileage 2-year old S...and put $20K into a custom interior...I’M POSITIVE THAT I WOULD BE VERY SATISFIED WITH MY TESLA! That’s what I would do if I couldn’t wait for an update/refresh of the car. Just sayin’ ;>
Cheers!

 

[Saghost]

Except the 7 series actually has a nicer interior than the 3 series. There is no way any person could claim the Model S/X interior beats the Model 3 (and presumably Y). You buy a 7 series for extreme comfort and status, with the Model S you only really get status, and I guess another 100km of range and a slightly faster 0-100. Hard to justify the 2X price increase when the quality of the interior is so much worse.

Interesting. I greatly prefer the current X interior to both the 3 interior and the interior concepts shown for the alleged refresh for the X.

It isn't so much the second screen as having four controllable screen zones. I'd have to keep flipping between screens to get information I always have on hand in the X, and the next level minimization of buttons means I'd have to go into the touchscreen menus more often for minor driving tasks.

That's one of the factors in my decision to buy a Raven, actually - I did think the refresh was probably coming in the fall when I ordered, and didn't expect the result would be an improvement for me.