Elon: "Feature complete for full self driving this year"

[mikes_fsd]

If your specific car happens to currently have a campaign to look for a SPECIFIC thing, and you happen to encounter that specific thing, you will be helping train the car (well, train the master stuff back at HQ, your own specific car won't change driving behavior without a firmware update).

I am glad we can be on the same page. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[eXntrc]

The fact they can change my car without my consent or knowledge is beyond anything believable.

Shadow mode does not update how your vehicle operates without your consent. The detectors that Karpathy mentions only run in observation mode. They help collect new data, but they do not modify the vehicles driving behavior. Behavior modification doesn't come until the next major update (which you must accept to install).

Also, if you don't want your car participating in the observation part you can opt out of data sharing under settings.

 

[Knightshade]

Shadow mode does not update how your vehicle operates without your consent. The detectors that Karpathy mentions only run in observation mode. They help collect new data, but they do not modify the vehicles driving behavior. Behavior modification doesn't come until the next major update (which you must accept to install).

Also, if you don't want your car participating in the observation part you can opt out of data sharing under settings.

That doesn't actually opt you out of all of it.. (green mentions that as well)-


Specifically when discussing types of "fixed" collection events he says

the other fixture of fixed events is "autopilot trip logs" - these are ALWAYS collected. Yes, even if you opt out of data collection

He goes on to describe what data is in there specifically in the next several tweets- mentioning it's ALWAYS sent to Tesla, and unlike campaigns, sent via cell.

It's likely what Tesla uses to be able to publish those "X number of miles driven on autopilot" and "Y number of times auto lane changes were used" type stats.

But it's not sending any pictures or video or anything of the sort that'd be used for NN training.

 

[Snuffysasa]

He claims he admitted himself to it- but does not detail how

green on Twitter

Right... so basically what I said above. (I think he did say at one point that he flipped a feature flag somewhere or something like that)

Anyways, I just think its misleading to say: "green is apart of early access" or whatever you said

 

[Knightshade]

Right... so basically what I said above

...no?

You said

"Is he an early access tester?? I thought he just was able to flip some feature flags on his car that gave him access to features that are disabled for non early access"

What he actually said was

I admitted myself into EAP

So yes, he's an early access tester...he didn't just enable a few specific otherwise disabled things.

Anyways, I just think its misleading to say: "green is apart of early access" or whatever you said

If you're going to claim what I said is misleading you probably should know what I actually said instead of hand-waiving it away with "whatever you said"

Because if you check- you'll find what I actually said was exactly accurate.

I mean, it's a weird hill to pick to die on in general- but you do you.

 

[eXntrc]

That doesn't actually opt you out of all of it..

Okay, but am I missing something? In my post I said that opting out of data collection is a way to opt out of the observation piece (I was writing about the detectors Karpathy mentioned in his presentation). You said opting out of data collection doesn't opt you out of "all of it". Then you mentioned "not sending any pictures or video or anything of the sort that'd be used for NN training".

So I guess I'm confused. Does opting out of data collection opt you out of detector observation or no?

 

[Snuffysasa]

...no?

You said

"Is he an early access tester?? I thought he just was able to flip some feature flags on his car that gave him access to features that are disabled for non early access"

What he actually said was

So yes, he's an early access tester...he didn't just enable a few specific otherwise disabled things.


If you're going to claim what I said is misleading you probably should know what I actually said instead of hand-waiving it away with "whatever you said"

Because if you check- you'll find what I actually said was exactly accurate.

I mean, it's a weird hill to pick to die on in general- but you do you.

alright you said: "Funny enough- Green is an early access tester so he knows exactly what's happening there too."

I believed that is a little misleading... ( and still do )

But if you don't think so... then fine. I didn't intend to argue it, I thought we'd be on the same page right away, but seeing as we are not, I am not interested in convincing you.

 

[Knightshade]

alright you said: "Funny enough- Green is an early access tester so he knows exactly what's happening there too."

I believed that is a little misleading... ( and still do )

But if you don't think so... then fine. I didn't intend to argue it, I thought we'd be on the same page right away, but seeing as we are not, I am not interested in convincing you.

Fair enough- though yeah I don't see how it's misleading... he IS an early access tester....and thus knows exactly what's being pushed out to the early access folks- he is one.

HOW he is one isn't really relevant to what I said there- he's seeing the same stuff anybody who got in the "traditional" way gets in is seeing in their cars... (well, more, since he has access to the behind the scenes stuff in the computer)

 

[Knightshade]

Okay, but am I missing something? In my post I said that opting out of data collection is a way to opt out of the observation piece (I was writing about the detectors Karpathy mentioned in his presentation). You said opting out of data collection doesn't opt you out of "all of it". Then you mentioned "not sending any pictures or video or anything of the sort that'd be used for NN training".

So I guess I'm confused. Does opting out of data collection opt you out of detector observation or no?

I suppose it depends on what you meant by observation.

It still collects, and uploads, autopilot driving data that Tesla still uses for other things (otherwise why collect it?)

Which means Tesla is still observing a number of things about your vehicle even if you opted out. Your route, your speed, your use (or not) of various AP features all along the route, etc...(again more details in the green link I posted if you want them)

It's just not collecting images or running campaigns that train the NN.

 

[eXntrc]

In my post I was specifically referring to the ad-hoc detectors Karpathy mentioned in his talk.

 

[Knightshade]

In my post I was specifically referring to the ad-hoc detectors Karpathy mentioned in his talk.

Fair enough- I read it as discussing being able to opt out of Tesla observing anything at all the car was doing, not just specific to the campaign stuff.

Apologies for any confusion.

 

[willow_hiller]

Traffic Light and Stop Sign Controls now appears to be out of Early Access with 2020.12.6: Currently being updated to 2020.12.6 : teslamotors

 

[diplomat33]

Traffic Light and Stop Sign Controls now appears to be out of Early Access with 2020.12.6: Currently being updated to 2020.12.6 : teslamotors

Interesting that the release notes appear to be the same as for Early Access. So looks like everybody is getting the feature that was supposedly just meant for data collection.

In fact, Third Row tweeted this:

So I am guessing the feature will be annoying to some because the car will try to stop at every single traffic light no matter what, red, yellow or green, and you will need to override when needed.

 

[willow_hiller]

I also hope someone with one of those mesh routers can track for us how large the required map update is. I wonder how much more metadata they're adding to their internal maps to support this feature.

 

[Knightshade]

Honestly surprised if it's going to general release this quickly- most of the feedback I saw from the EAP version suggested it was...not ready for prime time...guess we'll see (well, the HW3 folks will- my SC continues to be out of stock as they have been for months apparently)

 

[diamond.g]

I also hope someone with one of those mesh routers can track for us how large the required map update is. I wonder how much more metadata they're adding to their internal maps to support this feature.

Well my plume says 913mb for the latest firmware. Though I thought the latest map update 2020.12 included traffic control info? IIRC it was like 4gb for the latest map.

 

[willow_hiller]

Honestly surprised if it's going to general release this quickly- most of the feedback I saw from the EAP version suggested it was...not ready for prime time...guess we'll see (well, the HW3 folks will- my SC continues to be out of stock as they have been for months apparently)

At least it's hard to argue that the timing of this was influenced by the need to recognize some FSD revenue in Q2. If that were the case, they would have been in a scramble to ship it in June.

 

[diamond.g]

Interesting that the release notes appear to be the same as for Early Access. So looks like everybody is getting the feature that was supposedly just meant for data collection.

In fact, Third Row tweeted this:

So I am guessing the feature will be annoying to some because the car will try to stop at every single traffic light no matter what, red, yellow or green, and you will need to override when needed.

The release notes aren’t 100% the same. IIRC there was some verbiage about auto steer being limited to the speed limit that appears to be missing in general release.

 

[Snuffysasa]

Interesting that the release notes appear to be the same as for Early Access. So looks like everybody is getting the feature that was supposedly just meant for data collection.

In fact, Third Row tweeted this:


So I am guessing the feature will be annoying to some because the car will try to stop at every single traffic light no matter what, red, yellow or green, and you will need to override when needed.

Is really much more annoying than a nag though.... already (intersection or not) ... you need to interact with autopilot in some way... add some torque to steering wheel to confirm it to continue otherwise it will start beeping and stop... now at an intersection you need to confirm to proceed otherwise it will stop....(confirming for intersections I assume also counts as preventing the nag I assume? just like confirming a lane change did)

 

[Mardak]

Interesting that the release notes appear to be the same as for Early Access. So looks like everybody is getting the feature that was supposedly just meant for data collection.

I would guess Tesla wants more data. Early Access was making sure the data collection mechanism is working. "Over time, as we learn from the fleet, the feature will control more naturally."